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Sorry if this was asked already...

I noticed there are no longer point values for these factions, so I assume it means they’re out of matched play? Their rules are still on the AoS app but it stinks they won’t be on the competitive field.

Check out the last page of each of the Compendium documents for use in matched play:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NO/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Rules

The last round of updates removed any remaining synergy between them and other updated factions so they are rare in competitive play but technically usable.

Yep. You aren't going to find them in non narrative environments.

There is the Deus Vult pdf for the bretonnians that was updated with 2.0 with points but its not "official".

www.louisvillewargaming.com/Files/DeusVult.pdf

I'm holding out hope that the popularity of Tomb Kings in Total War: Warhammer 2 will lead to a lot of sales for Khalida and Settra on this week's Made-to-Order (I did my part ) and show GW that there is still a market for Tomb Kings. Maybe then, we'll see them show back up in some form as some sort of Undead empire not aligned with Nagash, but it's an extreme longshot.

I would *love* an ancient dead book based on the tomb kings that are opposed to nagash.

Unless you can copyright mummies then TK are gone forever

pm713 wrote:
Unless you can copyright mummies then TK are gone forever

Because you can copyright barbarians and dudes in armor. Can we seriously drop this argument? The Tomb Kings were easily one of GW's most unique, identifiable, and protectable IPs. They were dropped due to sales, not copyright.

pm713 wrote:
Unless you can copyright mummies then TK are gone forever

But skeletons ghosts and vampires are A-okay

 EnTyme wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Unless you can copyright mummies then TK are gone forever

Because you can copyright barbarians and dudes in armor. Can we seriously drop this argument? The Tomb Kings were easily one of GW's most unique, identifiable, and protectable IPs. They were dropped due to sales, not copyright.

QFT. The "because Copyright!" argument is, frankly, conspiracy-theory level nonsense. Changing some of the names may have been done for Trademark (not copyright) reasons, but I think those would be incredibly minimal. Lots more of the changes (e.g., "Elf" to "Aelf") are just going with more classic spellings for things which aren't copyrightable nor trademarkable anyway.

With regards to Bretonnia, I think the main reason they're gone is because they just don't fit in with the setting for AOS anymore. Same for Tomb Kings since they were a "splinter" essentially of other undead, and, well, that world went kablooie.

I do get people being salty that their model collection is no longer present, but there's no "Copyrightable Theory" reasons for it; sales numbers and redesign of the setting aesthetic are much more likely the main reasons.

 Valander wrote:
With regards to Bretonnia, I think the main reason they're gone is because they just don't fit in with the setting for AOS anymore. Same for Tomb Kings since they were a "splinter" essentially of other undead, and, well, that world went kablooie.

Pfft, using a smidgen of imagination would provide options for that. We have 3 flavors of Dwarf now, why would having a second human or Undead faction be hard to storyline? Bretonnians could be humans from the Realm of Life or Beasts. Tomb Kings could be Undead from the Realm of Fire.

No, I think it goes to sales and lack of desire to work the lines. Most of the Bretonnian line, while beautiful, was harder to work and involved a lot of metal. Apparently no one wanted to redo the line to justify a new book. Same could be said of the older Khemri models and a lackluster response to the 8th Edition Book.

 Valander wrote:
I do get people being salty that their model collection is no longer present, but there's no "Copyrightable Theory" reasons for it; sales numbers and redesign of the setting aesthetic are much more likely the main reasons.

True. Copyright issues were what changed the image of the Beastmen monsters and the actual names of things. There is too much generic concepts used in Warhammer to make the basic concepts truly copyrightable outside of the demons. Heck, all the new Tomb King Constructs were rather original ideas when you boil it down.

Yeah, sales numbers and cost of reworking molds (which is expensive, and if not supported by high sales numbers is a losing investment) are the most probable reasons. They could probably have come up with some fluff for them, but... if they're not really selling, why bother (at least from a bean-counter perspective)?

The unfortunate reality is that they weren't selling in 8th edition because their book was one of the weakest books in the library, and as much as we may hate this fact... army power does drive sales.

If they were busted then they'd have sold off the shelves the entire time.

Bretonnians never had a single prayer unless a new set of models were introduced. Their "current" WHFB book is 2+ editions out of date and little was done to correct them.

The 8th Edition Tomb Kings book was well received, and was even giving the Vampire Counts a run for their money. But then the Vampires got their 8th Ed book and their power level shot up again just like they did with their 7th Ed book, and the time difference wasn't that huge.

Add to that some of the "new" models were finecast and the old models looked positively clunky compared to all the new stuff the Vampires had gotten over the last 2 Editions, and there was little incentive to start or expand a Tomb Kings army.

As good as the 8th TK was in getting them back on the collection map, they seemed to have doubled down on the biggest weakness of the TK army as well, while the Vampires kept running their army at critical junctures, TKs were still stuck with the Heirophant and General combo.

I played the TK 8th edition and they armybook was fine. Most of the units where in the weak side, but overlapping synergi bonuses would usually do it. (I would use casket, the khemri scroll and the corebook worn powerstone for an ekstra 6+1d3 magic points turn 2 or 3.)

TK had other builds as well. The mass T8 spam was fun. Lots of chariots in units where cool.

The casket was an unique model in 8th edition as a loy of armies lost magic dice. They had a level 5 mage. Settra was quite unique on the battlefield. A lot of personalaty. Death, light and khemri spells where cool schools to have.

They did have some problems. No innitial marching. You needed both a hieorphant and a prince at 1000 point levels. The excat same unit for the same points on the vampire side was AV4 inatead of 5. The bows could not kill anything. No stand and shoot.

Also, the wood elf sniping rule was bad news for the hierophant.

Also I feel, some of the best models in the game. That entier range was awsome. They did not go out with a bang, but with dignety. Unlike bretonia.

I am stil hoping for some in AoS.

Such a shame about Tomb Kings, too... their models looked so awesome!

SG

Awww man. I was looking at getting into AoS now that it seems to have corrected course. I mained brets, and back in 8th I remember always hoping for a new AB but it never happened. I like this Dues Vault thing.

If I were to take my Brets would they not be usuable anymore?
I have pretty much the entire range.

You're pretty much fine unless you are talking about taking them to tournaments. Then it will be up to the tournament how they intend to deal with it.

They still have their little conversion book, I believe. It's not much, but it is better than nothing.

auticus wrote:
You're pretty much fine unless you are talking about taking them to tournaments. Then it will be up to the tournament how they intend to deal with it.

How so?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Charistoph wrote:
They still have their little conversion book, I believe. It's not much, but it is better than nothing.

Yes I found this. Its fantastic!

Because their points are not in the latest General's Handbook, they are considered by many in the matched play community to not be legit as the GHB is where GW refactors points on an annual basis.

Are the TK units in the new AoS generals handbook?

 Niiai wrote:
Are the TK units in the new AoS generals handbook?

No, they're not. Neither are point costs for them.

 Valander wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Are the TK units in the new AoS generals handbook?

No, they're not. Neither are point costs for them.

Not in the GHB, but they can be found at the back of the Warscroll collections found here

 ServiceGames wrote:
Such a shame about Tomb Kings, too... their models looked so awesome!

SG

If you need to grab some classic TK models, GW has Khalida and Settra the Imperishable available for a limited time on it's website at the moment.

Yeah i jumped onto the Bretonnia bandwagon after they got squatted =/

I'm being really careful with louen leoncouer.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Yeah i jumped onto the Bretonnia bandwagon after they got squatted =/

I'm being really careful with louen leoncouer.

What do you mean y Careful?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Yeah i jumped onto the Bretonnia bandwagon after they got squatted =/

I'm being really careful with louen leoncouer.

What do you mean by Careful?

The Warscroll Builder on the Community website appears to have points values for both Tomb Kings and Bretonnians:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The Warscroll Builder on the Community website appears to have points values for both Tomb Kings and Bretonnians:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

Yeah but no new book, also it seems they don't get the point discounts for horde formations and stuff.