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So, I’m theory-crafting a 2000 point Militarum Tempestus army, and I’m having second thoughts on what to put in my five man squads. Due to the rule of three, I can only take three Tempestor Primes, and that only gives me so many orders. So I’m wondering if I should change my squad loadouts from a Tempestor, two standard Scions, and two Hot-Shot Volley Guns, to squads with one less standard Scion and a Scion with Vox Caster. Even with the Vox Caster, I could still give them the Hot-Shot Lasguns for an additional point.

Not a Scion player myself, but I've got a buddy who has a full 2000 point Tempestus army. He has to take a Lord Commissar for his fourth HQ due to Rule of Three, but otherwise it is nothing but Tempestus. He runs a mix of plasma and HSVG's in his squads (not mixed in same squad, but some squads with plasma and others with volley guns).

What's the list? That's going to be what matters most. Personally in a vacuum I prefer Plasma, but the Hotshots can be useful.

I run mine mixed with Cadians so I usually run them purely for plasma delivery.

Prime w/ Command Rod
Scions w/ 2x Plasmagun, Plasma Pistol
Command Squad w/ 4x Plasmagun

Depending on the list the command squad may just be downgraded to troops to fill slots.

 Perth wrote:
What's the list? That's going to be what matters most. Personally in a vacuum I prefer Plasma, but the Hotshots can be useful.

I run mine mixed with Cadians so I usually run them purely for plasma delivery.

Prime w/ Command Rod
Scions w/ 2x Plasmagun, Plasma Pistol
Command Squad w/ 4x Plasmagun

Depending on the list the command squad may just be downgraded to troops to fill slots.

They are almost the same, just a couple a few pintle mounts included or not to make room for points or not.

So, three Tempestor Primes. All with Command Rod, Warlord as Grand Strategist with Kurov’s Aquila. He will be back with either two full 10-man squads with 4 volley guns, or he will drop i to support them when the get out of Taurox Primes. The second Prime will have the Laurels of Command, and he will drop with two plasma command squads, in order to get re-rolling ones over-charged plasma shooting, with the hope of adding “Elimination Protocol, Sanctioned!” to the plasma shots. The third command squad will either be deployed somewhere or whatever with grenade launchers in order to buy time or look intimidating, or something. Or, they will be given three grenade launchers and a platoon standard, and they will be with the Warlord to give the full squads extra leadership. The third Prime will be placed wherever he is needed to be.

The Taurox Primes are going to play transport, ranged, and close infantry shredding roles. Two will be kitted with Battle Cannons and autocannons, and the others will have Gatling Cannons and Volley Guns. For the rest of my mechanization, in a separate Airwing Detachment, I will have three Valkyries that will be acting as roving gun ships, firing lascannons and hell strikes, with Heavy Bolter.

This leaves four 5-man Scion Squads. All the difference taking them with a Vox Caster with Hot-Shot Lasguns would be whether or not I take pintle mounts on the Taurox Primes. The Valkyries will probably keep their heavy bolters, as I want them to be more important.

The idea is I run the list less alpha, more beta strike. The plasma command squads do what they do, but I might start one or two 5-man squads and my 10-man squads in vehicles. This gives me a little leeway in order to escalate certain situations and keep my enemy on his or her toes.

Plasma. Always plasma. No other option exists.

 Peregrine wrote:
Plasma. Always plasma. No other option exists.

Sure, but Hot-Shot Volley Guns and Elimination Protocol, Sanctioned?

 Apple Peel wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Plasma. Always plasma. No other option exists.

Sure, but Hot-Shot Volley Guns and Elimination Protocol, Sanctioned?

Plasma and that order. Some math:

HSVG, EPS against a T8 3+ tank: 0.54 wounds.

HSVG, EPS, have to move: .406 wounds

Plasma with EPS, overload within 12": 1.6667 wounds

Plasma with "take aim", overload (AKA safe mode) at 12-24": 0.6444 wounds

Sure, you have to get within 12", but it's not like that's difficult when storm troopers have no-scatter deep strike at 9.001". And even at 12-24", where plasma gets a single shot, and using the safety order instead of the maximum firepower order the plasma gun is taking more wounds off a tank than the HSVG can do in its best-case scenario. Take plasma.

Volley guns are not for shooting tanks and monsters. They are for shooting infantry as evident by their higher volume of shots at lower strength.

My advise would be as many plasma squads as you have Primes and some Volley gun squads if you want more units.

 Ordana wrote:
They are for shooting infantry as evident by their higher volume of shots at lower strength.

Shots which barely make up for the lower strength vs. plasma, and do less damage against multi-wound models like primaris marines. Always take plasma.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
They are for shooting infantry as evident by their higher volume of shots at lower strength.

Shots which barely make up for the lower strength vs. plasma, and do less damage against multi-wound models like primaris marines. Always take plasma.

I have made an alternate list now in which two of the four 5-man squads have plasma instead of Hot-Shot Volley Guns. I decided it would be best to remove the Tempestor Primes’ Power Swords (I’m modeling them with Command Rod and the hand pulling a knife out of his coat, so I can take whatever weapon I want with them, it’s just under the coat), and I had to remove one set of Heavy Bolters from a Valkyrie. I don’t want to change more as each Scion only comes with so many special weapons, and I don’t want to have to buy any more.

My battalion is...

2 primes with rods

5 man squad with 2 melta
5 man squad with 2 HSVG
5 man squad with 2 HSVG

4 man command squad with 4x plasma

taurox prime with gatling and HSVG

Mainly because all that can be built from 1 start collecting and 2 boxes of scions.

The idea of hunting around for (very hard to find) spare plasma guns from bits sites just to get an extra 0.5 wounds per mathhammer or whatever is completely anathema to me.

HSVG squads for anti-infantry
Melta and plasma for anti-tank or anti-monster

 Silentz wrote:
My battalion is...

2 primes with rods

5 man squad with 2 melta
5 man squad with 2 HSVG
5 man squad with 2 HSVG

4 man command squad with 4x plasma

taurox prime with gatling and HSVG

Mainly because all that can be built from 1 start collecting and 2 boxes of scions.

The idea of hunting around for (very hard to find) spare plasma guns from bits sites just to get an extra 0.5 wounds per mathhammer or whatever is completely anathema to me.

HSVG squads for anti-infantry
Melta and plasma for anti-tank or anti-monster

Do you run Vox Casters?

GW site sells Space Marines Plasma guns. 5 or 6 for 30PLN. Used on guardsmens they look okay. Big, bit not too big xD. I assume it would be even easier to use them with scions

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
They are for shooting infantry as evident by their higher volume of shots at lower strength.

Shots which barely make up for the lower strength vs. plasma, and do less damage against multi-wound models like primaris marines. Always take plasma.

It pains me that I have to 100% agree that Plasma is always the best options. It's always the best option for everything ever except horde control. It can struggle against Aeldari, but it's still not bad and everything struggles with Aeldari.

I've run a few different versions and have settled on something like this:

Prime w/ Command Rod, Laurels of Command
Prime w/ Command Rod, Kurov's Aquila

5 Scions w/ 2 Plasma + Plasma Pistol
5 Scions w/ 2 Plasma + Plasma Pistol
5 Scions w/ 2 Plasma + Plasma Pistol

4 Scion Command w/ 4 HSVG
3 Bullgryns w/ Slabshield + Maul
1 Priest w/ Maul

That's a 5CP Battalion for roughly 550 points and fits nicely into a 2k list with Sororitas & Inquisition. The Prime w/ Aquila and the Command HSVGs deploy at the start of game and use the reasonable price and good range and RoF of the Volley Guns to project a threat into no-mans-land; they usually castle up with an Inquisitor and a Canoness w/ Heavy Bolter Retributers to create a hard-to-ignore firebase while harvesting CPs with Kurov's Aquila. The Prime w/ Laurels and three units of min-maxed plasma drop where they can do the most damage, using Inspired Tactics to enhance their impact. The Bullgryns and Priest come along because there's no issue with Regimental conflicts, there's room in the Battalion, and because of how nicely Celestine buffs them; they run with an Inquisitor and some Acolytes as a pretty good CC bomb.

The point about plasma is well made and I buy it... I still bring HSVGs because they are cheap, punchy, have good range and RoF, and are easy to convert. Either my opponent invests resources in taking down a 64-point unit, which helps the rest of my army out, or they make their points back by Turn 2-3 catching infantry in the open as the Sisters' melta spam opens up transports within range of the Volley Guns.