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Greetings Designers,

This is an area I have very limited experience with, but I have been toying with the idea of making a generic, boardless dungeon crawl type game. It would include RPG-Lite elements, campaign mode, experience upgrades, equipment upgrades, non-combat actions, etc.

I have only really played Heroquest, mice and Mystics, and some Frostgrave as a taster for this genre. However, I am pretty sure their are other great games and mechanics out there to steal from. Hence the thread!

What are some key components to make a really great Dungeon Crawl style game?

I would say...

Resource management. Resources can be movement, gear, spells, hit points/death spiral, carrying limits. There should never quite be enough to make things easy.

Timers. Limited turns or other options (light is a good one). Ties in with resources.

Tactical, but not just combat. Reward different play styles. Stealth, missions (defend, attack, recover item or person, kill someone), speed or exploration, diversions, bluffing should all be available. Mice and Mystics has good non-combat scenes, but they're highly situational. Level 7: Omega Protocol allows stealth by giving the GM all the action (Adrenaline) points that the players burn to use against them.

Niche protection. Each character is different, special and useful.

Unexpected allies. Some monsters should be friendly or neutral - an option for team-ups, or dungeon politics.

Improve with experience. Well, yes! And so should the monsters and dangers they face.

Loot and gear - yeah!

Puzzles and traps. Personally, I hate puzzles, they break the sense of being in this dark, scary underground place. You may love them.

Games I'd look at:

D&D Basic set, also Expert set. Both the Moldvay (1981) and Mentzer (1983) versions are cheap PDFs on DrivethruRPG, and both are stone-cold gaming classics, and surprisingly focused rulesets. The Mentzer set sold over 2 million copies. The recent Old-School Revival (OSR) movement picked up around the older, classic ways to play D&D.

Torchbearer RPG. This brought a similar style of play up to date and piled the pressure high. Characters are in a death spiral from the moment they enter the dungeon, with limited resources to support them. The death spiral makes co-operation and communication harder at critical times, light is a constant worry, combat is really, really dangerous.

OK, the game has a lot of moving parts, too much for me to really enjoy. But it pares down dungeoneering to the essentials.

Rogue/Hack. Popular computer games that continue to randomly generate dungeons until you die. EVERYTHING, every single thing, in these games has a purpose or value.

Level 7: Omega Protocol. More tactical than, say, Space Hulk, this allows you more customisation of characters, has strong niche protection, and a nifty Adrenaline mechanic (mentioned above) that allows different playstyles to succeed.

Imperial Assault or Descent 2nd edition. OK, FFG games come with a ton of options, expansions and card tokens, but these are super-tight tactical games. You're always up against a time limit, so every move counts. The missions are strongly objective based, so every turn you're shooting or opening loot crates is another turn you're not necessarily winning the game. Characters are unique, and each has a different playstyle.

Silver Tower (GW) has some neat mechanics, and a more narrative approach based round reading out sections of an indexed story book. As the dungeon only really exists around the characters, you don't want to wander too far from everyone else, lest you be lost in nothingness. Warning - has puzzles.

That'll do for a start!

 Easy E wrote:
This is an area I have very limited experience with, but I have been toying with the idea of making a generic, boardless dungeon crawl type game. It would include RPG-Lite elements, campaign mode, experience upgrades, equipment upgrades, non-combat actions, etc.

I have only really played Heroquest, mice and Mystics, and some Frostgrave as a taster for this genre. However, I am pretty sure their are other great games and mechanics out there to steal from. Hence the thread!

What are some key components to make a really great Dungeon Crawl style game?

What do you mean by "Dungeon Crawl"? It seems to me that you have the right idea for a campaign that provides upgrades, so what are you looking to do?

And honestly, why "generic" - doesn't that defeat the point?

If I were going to make such a game (and I've actually done so), starting from scratch, then I'd rough out a more detailed concept in white of how I want the game to play, how I want the players to spend their time at the table, what (if anything) I want them to do between sessions. If/when you are clear about what a "game" is like, how the games link in a campaign, and what ends the campaign, then your crawl has a chance to be good. Trying to focus on components is ass-backward like trying to focus on game mechanics to make a game. A good game has the components and mechanics supporting the fundamental concept.

In your case, I would look at adapting M&M to "boardless" play as your zero game. It's a good game, so your starting place is at least sound.

Oh yeah, another game - Four against Darkness by Ganesha Games. Boardless (although it does have a map), solo play, randomised dungeons, monsters, loot, curses weird stuff. It's brilliant.

In fact - start reading this one first.

Good stuff here guys. I think instead of a time limit I want to do somethign with a "Threat Ratting" similar to Walking Dead: All Out War with escalating danger/threat as you proceed.

I also like hearing a bit more about "light" and using darkness or light in a ruleset. Basically, creatign artificial spotting distances or sight lines for discover, shooting, etc.

Things I look for in a Dungeon Crawler:
- Rules simple enough for "non-gamers" to quickly grasp (So I prefer Dungeon Saga to Descent, even though Descent is arguably better designed. If I can't get family and friends to play with me, there is no point)
- Can be played by a very small number of people, a pair or solo is good. (Descent does this better than Dungeon Saga, because running all four heroes in DS is a pain for a newbie)
- Dungeon "feel". I want to play a classic dungeon crawler with doors and traps and furniture, I want to fight skeletons and orcs and weird monsters. Space Hulk is awesome, but a good dungeon crawler to me needs to be in a proper dungeon.
- Not hard to set up. If I am running a Dungeon Crawler board game it is likely because I am too busy or tired to run a proper role playing game. So I don't want it to be a pain to set up. The Dungeons and Dragons Adventure System games do this really well - they have such a simple set up and do not really require much in the way of planning.
- Co-Op play. Maybe. Not a deal breaker but it is nice if it is there. D&D AS games are the best at this because they are designed for it. DS tries, but I think ultimately fails because it is not designed for it. AFAIK, not possible in Descent.

Aside from that, I am pretty easy going. I was introduced to miniature gaming by Heroquest, like many of us, and I find Dungeon Saga to be a fairly good surrogate. It has Undead, Orcs, Goblins, Demons and a big Dragon. And tiny furniture!

The only thing I do not like about it is, it is a pain in the arse to set up.

When I was a kid, I was super duper into the idea of a joined up campaign with persistent characters, but that is because I didn't know what Dungeons and Dragons was back then. Now, I am happy enough with a series of missions.