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So Space Marines are about 8-10ft tall according to the lore. I've seen estimates of Power Armor being around 500 lbs.

This came up in one of my Deathwatch RPG games years ago where we had to convince a farmer to see us outside his wooden house because if we entered it we would have to make a new door and possible get trapped in his basement. How do Space Marines deal with this?

I imagine this is not a problem on more standard Imperial worlds as the High Gothic architecture has large ceilings and entry ways. I just imagine a scenario similar to Dalek in Doctor Who with stairs (Prior to the hovering capabilities being known), where Space Marines must stop because a cultist ran thru a small hole. Or they have to get to a target location, but need to cut through Adamantium walls because the door ways are so small.

They send in the guardsmen fodder

This is why Chainfists and other breaching weapons exist.

Either breaching weapons if it's a tough wall or just sort of....run through the wall.

It's probably not a huge issue as most of the time they're in Imperial territory and they build everything big. They have churches so big they have weather problems.

Yeah, in a world of mega-gothic architecture, its not so bad.
Otherwise, yeah, breaching weapons and the like come to mind.

I don't remember one time when Black Library thought about this. Usually it is not mentionned, everything is just fine, size wise, when indeed, in fact it shouldn't !
Maybe in the IoM everything is thought for the SM to fit, but when they fight Tau ? Or in a hive-city (like the DA against the genestealers) ?

 godardc wrote:
I don't remember one time when Black Library thought about this. Usually it is not mentionned, everything is just fine, size wise, when indeed, in fact it shouldn't !
Maybe in the IoM everything is thought for the SM to fit, but when they fight Tau ? Or in a hive-city (like the DA against the genestealers) ?

It's sort of mentioned in the DA novels. A Terminator stands on a weakened floor and falls through. As I recall they had to get a crane after the battle.

 Ratius wrote:
They send in the guardsmen fodder

But said Guardsmen suffer heavy losses in the "Battle for the low corridor". (Yes that is an actual snippet from the 3rd ed IG codex regarding a regiment with big hats).

Seems like Chaos cultists could just build under ground bunkers with 6 foot ceilings, put up a planetary void shield and laugh at all of the Space Marines trying to take the underground complex while crawling around on their knees sideways.

It's fantasy, have to just accept some things and one of those things are Space Marines not constantly having issues fitting places.

I think it’s possibly not an issue with most imperial ships and buildings as they are standard template constructs (not STC per say), as in there is a standard the mechanicum and monitorum build to.

Plus gothic architecture

Scouts with Shotguns?

Either that, or they just imitate the Kool-aid-guy and utilise a non-standard entry procedure.

Hmm... is there a SM Chapter with the war cry: "Oh yeah!" I wonder?

 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
Hmm... is there a SM Chapter with the war cry: "Oh yeah!" I wonder?

Of course there is, the Kool Angels!

We need to remember the genetically enhanced warriors of the Astartes have all sorts of magnificent gifts.

They would eat an opponent's brain to figure out where the escape hatches are and toss melta bombs into the breach. If it's a boarding action on a ship that's too small, there's always cyclone missiles.

Surely this is the job of the Chibi Marines!

To boldly go into areas that aren't quite roomy enough for normal.marines (not my models. Well done LordHamu).

It's always been an unspoken problem in 40k. I wonder just how over-engineered everything is. Are all stairways, floors and ladders reinforced so they can bear the weight of a fully armoured Space Marine? If not, can't you just run up an old set of stairs to escape one? Or escape into the sewers.

They do have some unique advantages in urban combat though. Being a super-strong walking tank makes house clearance a lot easier. Walking through solid walls while launching RPGs at a high rate of fire at people in confined spaces is a pretty good tactic in those conditions.

I'm pretty sure they can shoulder through pretty much any standard material that isn't reinforced for military use - and anything that is reinforced for military use is large enough to accomodate them.

As for boarding actions and Zone Mortalis-esque warfare, ie, Space Hulks etc, this is the realm of Terminators, and they can definitely muscle through anything through a combination powerfists, chainfists, brute strength, and loud speakers blasting out "MOVE B****, GET OUT THE WAY!" over the entirety of the area.

Slipspace wrote:
It's always been an unspoken problem in 40k. I wonder just how over-engineered everything is. Are all stairways, floors and ladders reinforced so they can bear the weight of a fully armoured Space Marine? If not, can't you just run up an old set of stairs to escape one? Or escape into the sewers.

They do have some unique advantages in urban combat though. Being a super-strong walking tank makes house clearance a lot easier. Walking through solid walls while launching RPGs at a high rate of fire at people in confined spaces is a pretty good tactic in those conditions.

Doesn't the space marine back pack include grav thrusters that largely eliminate the weight problem?

nareik wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
It's always been an unspoken problem in 40k. I wonder just how over-engineered everything is. Are all stairways, floors and ladders reinforced so they can bear the weight of a fully armoured Space Marine? If not, can't you just run up an old set of stairs to escape one? Or escape into the sewers.

They do have some unique advantages in urban combat though. Being a super-strong walking tank makes house clearance a lot easier. Walking through solid walls while launching RPGs at a high rate of fire at people in confined spaces is a pretty good tactic in those conditions.

Doesn't the space marine back pack include grav thrusters that largely eliminate the weight problem?

No. The pack has thermal exhaust ports, which can be used as thrusters in zero-G but there are no suspensors or anti-grav devices in a suit of power armour. A Marine is heavy so hopefully all those floors and stairs are nice and robust.

Nonsense! There is no such thing as overly low ceilings!
Every race we know has banners and large decorative spines ensuring ceilings are always 10 feet+.

I am sure anyone deciding to attack a Squat spaceship however would find it a painful experience.
They LIKE cave-like constructs and seem to be too practical to buy into attached banners rather than carried ones.

I do admit, this is what ensures the continued line of models: urban warfare too small for the Primaris marines?
Send in the stubby original guys, they like playing around in Space Hulks and stuff like that.

Marines are really only 7-7.5 feet tall, but who's counting?

Nevertheless the point stands, in that having over-sized troops becomes a liability in many situations. As said before, an attachment of Imperial Guard would certainly be helpful.

Maybe the marines should start using enhanced canines to root enemies out of small places? Like a cyber-dachshund? ; )

Squats like making stuff extra large to compensate.
Way, way back in Ian Watsons Space Marine. Had the Fists fighting Squats in tunnel systems. Managed to write it off as most tunnels were built by ambuls. But a Fist did get over enthused, ran down a tunnel and got jammed. The Squats burnt his legs of at the knees from behind.

and loud speakers blasting out "MOVE B****, GET OUT THE WAY!" over the entirety of the area.

Terrific.

But a Fist did get over enthused, ran down a tunnel and got jammed. The Squats burnt his legs of at the knees from behind.

Yup. Pretty GrimDark.

 Talizvar wrote:
Nonsense! There is no such thing as overly low ceilings!
Every race we know has banners and large decorative spines ensuring ceilings are always 10 feet+.

I am sure anyone deciding to attack a Squat spaceship however would find it a painful experience.
They LIKE cave-like constructs and seem to be too practical to buy into attached banners rather than carried ones.

I do admit, this is what ensures the continued line of models: urban warfare too small for the Primaris marines?
Send in the stubby original guys, they like playing around in Space Hulks and stuff like that.

In Ian Watson's Space Marine, the Imperial Fists assault an asteroid used as a base by renegade Squats. At least one marine is lured into a narrow tunnel where he gets jammed in, then the Squats burn off his legs with meltaguns. They also use cyber-modified Ambulls to tunnel through the rock to outflank the Marines.

edit - Bah, someone beat me to it.

 amanita wrote:
Marines are really only 7-7.5 feet tall, but who's counting?

Nevertheless the point stands, in that having over-sized troops becomes a liability in many situations. As said before, an attachment of Imperial Guard would certainly be helpful.

Maybe the marines should start using enhanced canines to root enemies out of small places? Like a cyber-dachshund? ; )

I have always thought that marines make much more use of thralls then in the literature, it's just they aren't part of the heroic image of the marines.

Anything substantial enough to be 4-5 stories plus would probably be able to handle the marines, anything smaller or non military they send in the lackeys whom they can depend on.
Anything the thralls can't handle they just blow it up or gas them out.

I think marines would work like tanks in blitzkreig, punch through any significant resistance that wasn't there objective just gets left to be pinned or blasted apart by whatever follows them.

I'd imagine ships, bunkers and buildings are simply always built to accomodate larger individuals. Marines aren't the only larger ones in the Imperium, there's also Ogryns, Techpriests and thousands and thousands of augmetic components that could increase one's size, so it'd make sense that structures are naturally taller inside to accomodate these.

I also struggle with the notion that Marines are 8-10' tall, just seems too unrealistic, I've always imagined them as around 7', possibly 8' for Terminators.

 Valkyrie wrote:
I'd imagine ships, bunkers and buildings are simply always built to accomodate larger individuals. Marines aren't the only larger ones in the Imperium, there's also Ogryns, Techpriests and thousands and thousands of augmetic components that could increase one's size, so it'd make sense that structures are naturally taller inside to accomodate these.

I also struggle with the notion that Marines are 8-10' tall, just seems too unrealistic, I've always imagined them as around 7', possibly 8' for Terminators.

IIRC they're 7 feet. 8 in power armor, 9 in terminator armor.

Rhinos are made for human colonists. How they jam a tactical squad inside is beyond me.

If this became a serious issue, they;d send in CAT or Servo Skull reconnaissance units with compact teleport homers and teleport in.

Otherwise they could get chapter serfs to enter any space that wouldn't accommodate them.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
So Space Marines are about 8-10ft tall according to the lore. I've seen estimates of Power Armor being around 500 lbs.

This came up in one of my Deathwatch RPG games years ago where we had to convince a farmer to see us outside his wooden house because if we entered it we would have to make a new door and possible get trapped in his basement. How do Space Marines deal with this?

I imagine this is not a problem on more standard Imperial worlds as the High Gothic architecture has large ceilings and entry ways. I just imagine a scenario similar to Dalek in Doctor Who with stairs (Prior to the hovering capabilities being known), where Space Marines must stop because a cultist ran thru a small hole. Or they have to get to a target location, but need to cut through Adamantium walls because the door ways are so small.

Most stuff in the Imperium is made to accommodate their size, there has never been instances where the custodes couldn't go on Terra, Space marines have gone into human habitation on hive worlds etc. if Space marines have to go to places that they can't go then its obvious that the mission will be left to guard, sisters, stormtroopers, arbites etc. or SM's just obliterate the place they can't go, from ordnance or orbital strike etc. Its a no brainer. Space marines are also, the vanguard, they are an elite spear tip in mass mobilisations, so they mostly don't have to deal with small places, as for battleships they are massive and there are few places they can't go. The grey knights would have more of a problem as they go wherever the taint is so they have to go where cultists hide out etc.

If it's not sturdy enough to hold a Marine, it's not sturdy enough to hold anything after being hit by a boltgun round.

If there's light wall or other obstruction, don't they just spit on it? Or punch it (which chapter doesn't have acid spit again)?

Heavier obstructions might require dousing the other side in flamer or just take their sniper rifle (lascannon) and shoot them through the wall. If it's truly heavy, they have Chainfists for breaching actions or Vindicators/MeltaBombs for demolitions.

If I remember right it's the Imperial Fists and their successors.