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Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

Hi everyone, so with the upcoming release of Kill Team in 8th Edition I must say I'm quite eager to play it, as I love my AdMech but have found it hard to have pleasant games at my LGS recently due to the poor balance of the army. I'm hoping Kill Team may lift my motivation up, and in fact I'm already painting a bunch of Skitarii with the Stygies VIII paint scheme that has become the official AdMech KT colour scheme.

I know it's still early to build a Tactica, but I had the chance to have a read at the KT rulebook and have a few ideas about how to build my AdMech KT. I'll update this post with more info from you guys in the long run, so has to have a reference post with the experience and thoughts of multiple players. So let's get started.

So to build a Kill Team in Matched Play, you can have a roster of maximum 20 entries, each model being an entry. Before a mission, you may pick in your roster the models that shall constitute your KT, with a limit of 100 pts, 3 models minimum and 20 maximum. It is so because as I've understand there can be missions where a certain kind of KT may not be usable at all due to the parameters of the mission. So you can adapt your KT to the mission, I think it's a nice idea and allow for way more freedom in list building. Also, if playing a Campaign, you may have models that are in Convalescence from a previous mission and so must be replaced by another.

Your KT must be led by a Leader (duh) and can include up to 3 Specialists, each having a specific skill tree as seen in the previews. The Leader has its own skill tree, too, so you'll always have a model with a skill. The nature of your models limit the type of speciality they can endorse, for example there is no models in the AdMech roster that can be a Medic, for example.

The available units in AdMech are:
Skitarii Ranger/Vanguard: 9 pts - 1 of each may have an Omnispex or Enhanced Data-tether, up to 3 of each type can be Gunners and have access to their Special Weapons
Skitarii Ranger/Vanguard Alpha, 10 pts - Limited to 1 per KT, can be your Leader
Skitarii Ranger/Vanguard Gunner, 10 pts - Limited to 3 per type (Ranger or Vanguard)
Sicarian Infiltrator/Ruststalker: 14 pts
Sicarian Infiltrator/Ruststaker Princeps: 15 pts - Limited to 1 per KT, can be your Leader

Their profiles are exactly the same as in 40k, and they have access to all the equipment we know, I'll detail those below, with the updated profile if different from 40k.
Spoiler:
Radium Carbine, 18" Assault 3 S3 AP0 D1, inflict 3D on a Wound roll of 6 (a big buff from the original game): 0 pts
Galvanic Rifle: 0 pts
Radium Pistol: 0 pts
Phosphor Blast Pistol, 12" Pistol 1 S5 AP-1 D1, attacks made with this weapon ignore the -1 to Hit from the target being Obscured: 0 pts
Arc Pistol: 12" Pistol 1 S6 AP-1 D1 (no more bonus against Vehicles obviously): 0 pts

Arc Rifle, 24" Rapid Fire 1 S6 AP-1 D1: 0 pts
Plasma Caliver, same Standard profile, Overcharge is S8 AP-4 D2, puts the bearer Out of Action (so, removed from play) on un unmodified roll of 1 to Hit: 3 pts
Transuranic Arquebus, 60" Heavy 1 S7 AP-2 Dd3, the bearer cannot shoot this weapon if he has moved during the Movement phase, this weapon ignore the -1 to Hit due to shooting at more than half the range, and inflict an additionnal Mortal Wound on a Wound roll of 6: 5 pts

Flechette Blaster: 0 pts
Stubcarbine: 0 pts

Taser Goad: 1 pt
Arc Maul, S+2 AP-1 D1: 0 pts
Power Sword: 0 pts
Chordclaw: 1 pts
Transonic Razor: 0 pts
Transonic Blades: 0 pts

Omnispex, at the start of the shooting phase, you can chose a friendly model within 3" that is not Shaken. That model does not suffer penalties to their Hit rolls due to their target being Obscured: 1 pt
Enhanced Data-Tether, you can re-roll failed Nerve tests for your KT while the bearer is on the battlefield and not Shaken: 3 or 5 pts, I'm not sure.


AdMech still have access to their Canticles of the Omnissiah every turn, with the same picking rules as we know. They are mostly the same, save from a few difference with some of them, which, sadly, I don't remember.

Their Tactics (so, Stratagems) are based from the Codex, with Imperator and Conqueror Doctrines costing 2CP each, boosting a single model with a +1 in his WS or BS, but +2 while within 6" of a model with an Enhanced Data-Tether. The other ones are Dunestrider, for 1 CP, which allows your model to roll 2 dice when advancing, picking the highest, and Gloria Mechanicus, for 1 CP, which allows you to reroll the Canticle in use.

First impressions:
Spoiler:
So far, my first impressions from reading the book are that Rangers are going to be our rank and file more than Vanguards. This is because of their longer range which allows them to shoot twice at 15" or less, and so without suffering the -1 due to long range. Vanguards need to be at 9" for shooting without a malus. The S4 and possible AP-1 is more reliable to wound than the Radium Carbine too. However, the Radium Carbine inflicts 3D in a Wound roll of 6, which is powerful because of the mechanics of the Trauma tests: when down to 0W, a model must see if it has suffered a mere Flesh Wound or is Out of Action. To do so, the opponent rolls a D6 and on a 4+ (there are different modifiers) the model is Out of Action. But if the weapon deals multiple damage, you roll this many dice and pick the highest, so you can roll 3D6 to put your target Out of Action, which is really powerful. So I'd say a rough ratio of 2 Rangers to 1 Vanguard would be a safe bet, for now.

Giving melee weapons or CC-type Specialist roles to your Skitarii Alphas may not be the best bet either, penalties to Hit even in CC are easy to get, so counting on a WS of 4+ to deal damage is less than optimal. Sicarians are much better fit for this role with their faster movement, better WS, number of attacks and number of Wounds. My take for now is to have a backline Ranger Alpha as Leader and an Infiltrator Zealot specialist in the frontline, to not risk losing my Leader against a much more CC-orientated opponent.

Concerning Sicarians I have the feeling that Ruststalkers will still be underwhelming, counting on 6s to Wound without any AP looks as hazardly as in regular 40k. They still have a load of attacks, and may be boosted with the correct Specialisations and Skills, but I'm more trusting the Infiltrators with Tasers as they have a better Strength, shooting weapons, exploding 6s to Hit and give -1 to Ld within 3" to enemies.

The special weapons for the Skitarii all look interesting, I'm glad the Arquebus is looking good and don't seem overpriced. It will be a real threat with it's range and power, and I intend to have mine backed by a guy with an Omnispex for ignoring cover. I wouldn't play too much though, as you limit your movement with one. The Sniper or Heavy specialists look tailor-made for this weapon. The plasma looks dangerous to use due to the short range, I have to play a few games to see for myself the viability. It needs constant buffs or rerolls to shoot at Overcharge without being certain to blow up, the Arquebus looks more trustworthy. The Arc Rifle looks like a decent weapon too, especially because it costs no points and has a good power. With the right Specialist traits I'm sure it could be powerful.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/20 12:24:46


40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Are there any special abilities that allow the arquebus to move and fire? That would be very handy because as it sits about all it's good for is creating a no go zone. Smart opponents won't let important models within sight of iut

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Are there any special abilities that allow the arquebus to move and fire? That would be very handy because as it sits about all it's good for is creating a no go zone. Smart opponents won't let important models within sight of iut

From what I remember, the Heavy specialist trait lvl 1 skill allows you to move and shoot with a Heavy weapon without penalty. However, the Arquebus has it written in its profile that it cannot be used after moving, so sadly I guess the weapon's rules override the specialist skill :/

I think it won't be that easy to fully hide models, and he certainly won't be able to hide his whole KT. With an Omnispex nearby the opponent won't even have the chance to be obscured from this model. But I have to see in games how it will turn out, I may be wrong.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Birmingham, UK

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Are there any special abilities that allow the arquebus to move and fire? That would be very handy because as it sits about all it's good for is creating a no go zone. Smart opponents won't let important models within sight of iut


It's not looking likely. It'll be an excellent space control weapon though - if you have tall terrain to deploy on / shimmy onto turn 1 and force your opponent to keep their Leader and Specialists out the way, you can really control space. It may even be worth taking two.

Looking forward to having a play around, need to pick up a box of Infiltrators for sure.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/23 06:57:54


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Ok those points costs look great, I was looking to expand my infiltrator squad to run a 8 man squad for my stygies army so this gives me an excuse to get an other box and paint them up to be my kill team with some rangers thrown in for special weapons.

2500+ pts of Ad Mech
2000+ pts of Deathwatch
2000+ pts of Skaven 
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

Agamembar wrote:
Ok those points costs look great, I was looking to expand my infiltrator squad to run a 8 man squad for my stygies army so this gives me an excuse to get an other box and paint them up to be my kill team with some rangers thrown in for special weapons.


Yeah, looking at the Ruststalker profiles I'm wondering if I'm not going to scrap mine to make more Infiltrators, seeing as they are already useless in 40k. Maybe there's a specialist trait that might help one but not really convinced.

Speaking of Infiltrators I wonder if the Taser goads are going to be nice, considering there's at least 2 ways to have a -1 to Hit: fighting across a scenery or having a Flesh Wound. Tesla is not good when not exploding its 6s. And the overall lack of good AP tends to encourage playing power swords. The stubbers are going to be able to shoot better too, with its 18" range.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Aaranis wrote:
Agamembar wrote:
Ok those points costs look great, I was looking to expand my infiltrator squad to run a 8 man squad for my stygies army so this gives me an excuse to get an other box and paint them up to be my kill team with some rangers thrown in for special weapons.


Yeah, looking at the Ruststalker profiles I'm wondering if I'm not going to scrap mine to make more Infiltrators, seeing as they are already useless in 40k. Maybe there's a specialist trait that might help one but not really convinced.

Speaking of Infiltrators I wonder if the Taser goads are going to be nice, considering there's at least 2 ways to have a -1 to Hit: fighting across a scenery or having a Flesh Wound. Tesla is not good when not exploding its 6s. And the overall lack of good AP tends to encourage playing power swords. The stubbers are going to be able to shoot better too, with its 18" range.


Some very good points, taking them on board my plan then at the moment is to get a box and make 3 with the goads and blasters for my 40k army and the rest with the swords and the stubbers, I have a 6 man ranger team I built for shadow war which while very converted (the alpha has an arc maul and double arc pistols, melee and range weapons for everyone etc) I can still run fairly easily in kill team so they'll get painted to match them. I can then try both down the road, new strategems might see us having the ability to help the taser rule along like in standard 40k.

2500+ pts of Ad Mech
2000+ pts of Deathwatch
2000+ pts of Skaven 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





So is a Ranger/Vanguard Alpha still limited to the crappy weapons options we get in codex? Or can they for example have an arquebus or plasma caliver?

Because i mean the leader of my KT having bog standard weapons or crappy pistols and crappy melee weapons is just meh.

Otherwise, No way my leader is gonna be anything other than a sicarian princeps of some kind, unless i can give a data-tether to my alpha? Then i can at least keep him out of the way, but ideally an arquebuess user would have a tether, can gunners have tethers or omnispex or is that just the regulars?

I know most of this could be answered by assuming its the same as the codex, but if we’re bespoke building a squad then it might be different. Otherwise we’re back to taking tax plebs for omnispex and data-tether.

I mean we can already field 6 plasma calivers for 83pts including an alpha tax.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





I was gonna leave my Forgebane Skitarii unbuilt before this game was announced... now I'm in the process of putting this together:

Ranger Alpha w/ Arc Pistol and Arc Maul (Leader) - 10
Vanguard Alpha w/ Radium Pistol and Power Sword (Zealot) - 10
Ranger Gunner w/ Transuranic Arquebus (Sniper) - 15
Ranger Gunner w/ Arc Rifle - 10
Vanguard Gunner w/ Plasma Caliver (Heavy) - 13
Skitarii Ranger w/ Galvanic Rifle and Omnispex - 10
Skitarii Ranger w/ Galvanic Rifle and Enhanced Data-Tether - 14
Skitarii Vanguard w/ Radium Carbine - 9
Skitarii Vanguard w/ Radium Carbine - 9

While Sicarians will still almost certainly be better for a melee model I think the Vanguard Alpha Zealot has a lot of potential and can catch people by surprise. On the charge even plague marines are being wounded on a 4+. This feels like a very strong kill team to get out of a single box.
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

Octovol wrote:So is a Ranger/Vanguard Alpha still limited to the crappy weapons options we get in codex? Or can they for example have an arquebus or plasma caliver?

Because i mean the leader of my KT having bog standard weapons or crappy pistols and crappy melee weapons is just meh.

Otherwise, No way my leader is gonna be anything other than a sicarian princeps of some kind, unless i can give a data-tether to my alpha? Then i can at least keep him out of the way, but ideally an arquebuess user would have a tether, can gunners have tethers or omnispex or is that just the regulars?

I know most of this could be answered by assuming its the same as the codex, but if we’re bespoke building a squad then it might be different. Otherwise we’re back to taking tax plebs for omnispex and data-tether.

I mean we can already field 6 plasma calivers for 83pts including an alpha tax.

It's exactly the same options as in the codex, the Alphas are stuck with classic weapons or pistols and CC weapon sadly. For the Omnispex and Data-tether only regulars can take one, no Gunners. But I don't think it's a bad thing, it would be better to have the choice of course, but I wouldn't place all my eggs in the same basket. Don't forget a Skitarius is still fairly easy to kill, and we don't know yet how fast-paced the game can be. I think we'll need regular Skitarii. A Ranger might be a better option for the Omnispex & Data-tether as he can sit back with his longer range.

Arachnofiend wrote:I was gonna leave my Forgebane Skitarii unbuilt before this game was announced... now I'm in the process of putting this together:

Ranger Alpha w/ Arc Pistol and Arc Maul (Leader) - 10
Vanguard Alpha w/ Radium Pistol and Power Sword (Zealot) - 10
Ranger Gunner w/ Transuranic Arquebus (Sniper) - 15
Ranger Gunner w/ Arc Rifle - 10
Vanguard Gunner w/ Plasma Caliver (Heavy) - 13
Skitarii Ranger w/ Galvanic Rifle and Omnispex - 10
Skitarii Ranger w/ Galvanic Rifle and Enhanced Data-Tether - 14
Skitarii Vanguard w/ Radium Carbine - 9
Skitarii Vanguard w/ Radium Carbine - 9

While Sicarians will still almost certainly be better for a melee model I think the Vanguard Alpha Zealot has a lot of potential and can catch people by surprise. On the charge even plague marines are being wounded on a 4+. This feels like a very strong kill team to get out of a single box.

I've thought about melee Alphas too, but I realised they're still not fit for CC at all. It's very easy to get -1 or more to Hit, and with a model who hits at 4+ with only two attacks I wouldn't even hope surviving more than one round in combat. You'd have to get the initiative and hit first.

I didn't build any list yet (going to do that tomorrow) but I plan on having an Infiltrator Princeps as Zealot, maybe another as Scout, and my leader shall be a Ranger Alpha, farther away from danger. Take into account the Morale phase, where losing your leader gets you additional maluses.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Pewling Menial






There's some synergy to be had by sticking a T.Arquebus Sniper specialist next to an Omnispex Comms specialist. Just with level 1 specialists you get a Sniper with +1 to hit, rerolls 1's, and ignores the penalties to shooting obscured targets. Put the Omnispex on a Ranger and he'll likely find some targets too, with that 30" range.
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





I wouldnt ever suggest focusing an alpha on melee, but for 1 extra point you get higher leadership, an extra attack and a free melee weapon. You dont have to take a pistol, you can keep your radium carbine or galvanic rifle.

A vanguard alpha might surprise someone though, in combat they essentially have str 6 with an arc maul thanks to the toughness debuff wounding just about anything on a 2 or 3. All for only 1 point.

There’s almost an argument for taking a ruststalker and infiltrator princeps and a vanguard or ranger alpha with an arc maul. There arent too many really tough targets like in a regular match, and given transonic blades are free and you can still pay the 1pt for a chord claw if you want on your princeps. Alot of stuff that we consider unusable in regular 40k seems to be free or vastly reduced cost in killteam. I wouldnt take a ruststalker, but a princeps for 1pt and free blades...it gives us options to worry people.

I’m not sure whether our gunline approach would work in killteam yet. Having a regular ranger with omnispex sat with an arquebus gunner is 1/4 of your points. Maybe thats worth it, we do the same with cawl and robots.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





It should be mentioned that there is a matched play mission where you can only score points by capturing opposing models (defined as killing them while within 1", so either with a pistol or with a melee weapon). Even if your CC options aren't amazing not having any at all is pretty much conceding 1/4 of your games with that mission on the table.
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

the_Grak wrote:There's some synergy to be had by sticking a T.Arquebus Sniper specialist next to an Omnispex Comms specialist. Just with level 1 specialists you get a Sniper with +1 to hit, rerolls 1's, and ignores the penalties to shooting obscured targets. Put the Omnispex on a Ranger and he'll likely find some targets too, with that 30" range.

Exactly what I'm planning ! Here's to hoping my sniper won't botch half his shots like in regular 40k now.

Arachnofiend wrote:It should be mentioned that there is a matched play mission where you can only score points by capturing opposing models (defined as killing them while within 1", so either with a pistol or with a melee weapon). Even if your CC options aren't amazing not having any at all is pretty much conceding 1/4 of your games with that mission on the table.

This is why we have access to a roster from which to build our KT before every mission, to adapt the skills to the situation. In this mission I'd drop my Arquebus and Omnispex and use more Sicarians.

I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Birmingham, UK

 Aaranis wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote: It should be mentioned that there is a matched play mission where you can only score points by capturing opposing models (defined as killing them while within 1", so either with a pistol or with a melee weapon). Even if your CC options aren't amazing not having any at all is pretty much conceding 1/4 of your games with that mission on the table.


This is why we have access to a roster from which to build our KT before every mission, to adapt the skills to the situation. In this mission I'd drop my Arquebus and Omnispex and use more Sicarians.

I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down.


You don't have that choice in a Matched Play tournament setting where you're just bringing your best 100 point list though.
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

Quote:
Spoiler:
 Dedwoods42 wrote:
 Aaranis wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote: It should be mentioned that there is a matched play mission where you can only score points by capturing opposing models (defined as killing them while within 1", so either with a pistol or with a melee weapon). Even if your CC options aren't amazing not having any at all is pretty much conceding 1/4 of your games with that mission on the table.


This is why we have access to a roster from which to build our KT before every mission, to adapt the skills to the situation. In this mission I'd drop my Arquebus and Omnispex and use more Sicarians.

I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down.


You don't have that choice in a Matched Play tournament setting where you're just bringing your best 100 point list though.

Ah, I haven't read that chapter to be honest, I have no clue about the specificities. So in tournaments you bring ONE list and it has to be able to perform all kinds of missions ? And how do they make the skills work, everybody is lvl 1 ? Or you pay the points for a skilled specialist ?

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Birmingham, UK

 Aaranis wrote:
Quote:
Spoiler:
 Dedwoods42 wrote:
 Aaranis wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote: It should be mentioned that there is a matched play mission where you can only score points by capturing opposing models (defined as killing them while within 1", so either with a pistol or with a melee weapon). Even if your CC options aren't amazing not having any at all is pretty much conceding 1/4 of your games with that mission on the table.


This is why we have access to a roster from which to build our KT before every mission, to adapt the skills to the situation. In this mission I'd drop my Arquebus and Omnispex and use more Sicarians.

I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down.


You don't have that choice in a Matched Play tournament setting where you're just bringing your best 100 point list though.

Ah, I haven't read that chapter to be honest, I have no clue about the specificities. So in tournaments you bring ONE list and it has to be able to perform all kinds of missions ? And how do they make the skills work, everybody is lvl 1 ? Or you pay the points for a skilled specialist ?


As far as we've seen, yes. The roster selection part appears to be for campaigns - for Matched play you have a 20 model, 100 point limit. Specialists max at level 1.
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

I feel like just due to the hostage situation mission and a few others an ideal list would have a mix of infiltrators, vanguard, and rangers. I'm considering 2 to 3 infiltrators with a mix of weapons, some vanguard packing plasma and regular weapons, and a few rangers to be the warlord, obligatory comms specialist, and if points allow one or two other models to sit in the back and hold objectives, make it harder to route, etc.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in gb
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Birmingham, UK

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/22/22nd-july-kill-team-forging-your-teamgw-homepage-post-1/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40KForgingKillTeamJuly24&utm_content=40KForgingKillTeamJuly24

Looks like I was totally wrong - Command Roster applies to Matched Play too. Which is... Interesting.
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down


Not true. If you incapacitate a foe 20 yards away, they recover the body and you get nothing, no intel, no spoils etc. If you’re close enough to touch them then you certainly could capture them before any of their friends managed to recover the body.
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

Octovol wrote:
I think that's a dumb mission btw. Like, shooting someone from 15 meters away or a point blank does the same, the target's down


Not true. If you incapacitate a foe 20 yards away, they recover the body and you get nothing, no intel, no spoils etc. If you’re close enough to touch them then you certainly could capture them before any of their friends managed to recover the body.


So a small group at my LGS is launching a campaign with heavy narrative and roleplay elements, we'll be playing that for 3 months so I'm eager to start ! Here's my idea of a 100 pts list, regardless of a specific mission. Didn't write my full roster yet but it'll turn around that:

- Ranger Alpha, Leader: 10 pts (maybe I'll give him a sword or something)
- Infiltrator Princeps, Zealot, Power sword & Stubber, 15 pts
- Ranger Gunner, Sniper, Transuranic Arquebus, 15 pts
- Ranger, Comms, Omnispex: 10 pts
- 2x Vanguard Gunners, Arc rifles: 20 pts
- 2x Vanguards: 18 pts
- Ranger, 9 pts

Total 97 pts. I think I have a nice polyvalent force here, not much CC but with the AdMech I feel like you have to commit to a full CC list if you wish to play that way. Alphas are not reliable enough with their 4+ WS. Here I have 3 Galvanic rifles for ranged, 2 Radium carbines to discourage clutched troops, 2 Arc Rifles to deal with thougher targets as there's S6 and AP-1, and my Arquebus who'll be boosted beyond reason thanks to the Omnispex guy. Base, he already shoots at 3+ rerolling 1s to Hit, but the Comms trait allows him to give +1 to Hit to a friendly model within 2" or 3", and the Omnispex prevents his targets from being obscured. If they're in a nice position, their threat range will cover the whole board (as it is 30x24") and be almost certain to take down any target each round.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

I'm surprised all of you are interested in infiltrators. Can you explain why?

After reading the rules and learning that pistols can't be fired after charging OR being charged, I'm having a hard time understanding the use of any pistols at all.

A princeps ruststalker as combat or zealot is a nasty amount of attacks for a decent price.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm surprised all of you are interested in infiltrators. Can you explain why?

After reading the rules and learning that pistols can't be fired after charging OR being charged, I'm having a hard time understanding the use of any pistols at all.

A princeps ruststalker as combat or zealot is a nasty amount of attacks for a decent price.

Infiltrators are jack of all trades. They've got good pistols that are better than most normal weapons, decent CQC, multiple wounds, debuff LD, move faster, etc. etc. Whereas Rust Stalkers do one thing, fast melee. Yeah their base statline is identical other than an additional attack, but they lose a lot of flexibility to do that.

Simply put, an Infiltrator will almost always have a good role to fill in a list. Meanwhile a Ruststalker could be completely useless in some matchups, especially very vertical table setups. I mean just the fact that they have a gun alone means they can do more over the course of a game in the long run, especially the stub carbines which have a pretty good range when combined with their movement. I like that flexibility personally.

Also, Ruststalkers do not have any AP on their weapons, only a chance to deal a mortal wound on a 6+ to wound. Which means against a lot of enemies your wounds are just going to bounce off. And you don't have ways to have exploding number of hits and increased strength like taser lances have, or just straight up AP like the humble power sword has.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/28 19:36:41


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

Fair enough.

I had been fiddling with the following, as a basic start.

Ruststalker Princeps (Zealot) - 16
Transonic Blades, Chordclaw

Skitarii Ranger (Comms) - 10
Omnispex, Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Ranger Gunner (Sniper) - 15
Arquebus

Skitarii Vanguard (Leader) - 14
Carbine, Enhanced Data Tether

5x Skitarii Ranger -- 9 (45)
Galvanic Rifle

100 flat. Any opinions? I suppose the Ruststalker could easily be an Infiltrator.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/28 21:02:43


Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

I'm still traumatised by the uselessness of Ruststalkers in 40k, and I don't believe they'll be any more useful here. Yes they do have a lot of attacks, but they're just SM-worthy hits most of the time, unless you're lucky on 6s, which is not my case, at least with the Ruststalkers. I like the Infiltrators because they have a better choice of weapons, I like the power swords setup for the AP. Tesla is nice but suffers the same problem as the Ruststalkers relying on 6s, but even worse as it can suffer the penalties to Hit even more. And I believe they'll FAQ the pistols someway, or as stated above, it's still a gun that I can use if I want to. Being at 9" will be easy seeing the size of the mat. Infiltrators also give -1 to Ld within 3" which is non-negligible.
 Cephalobeard wrote:
Fair enough.

I had been fiddling with the following, as a basic start.

Ruststalker Princeps (Zealot) - 16
Transonic Blades, Chordclaw

Skitarii Ranger (Comms) - 10
Omnispex, Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Ranger Gunner (Sniper) - 15
Arquebus

Skitarii Vanguard (Leader) - 14
Carbine, Enhanced Data Tether

5x Skitarii Ranger -- 9 (45)
Arc Rifle

100 flat. Any opinions? I suppose the Ruststalker could easily be an Infiltrator.

You have a nice firepower-based list here. However I see a few mistakes, the Vanguard Alpha can't equip Data-tether, only regular Skitarii can. Also one of your Rangers will have to be a Gunner to carry the Arc Rifle, so he will cost 10 pts.

Personally I don't see any advantage at having your plasma or Arc rifles carriers being Rangers, as the Vanguards cost the same and are radioactive for the -1 T if they get engaged. The only reason I see would be because you already have 2 Vanguard Gunners. I kept my Arquebus guy as a Ranger for fluff reasons and because I still use them like that in 40k, also because I already have two Vanguards with Arc rifles.

Glad to see the Omnispex + Sniper team is catching on, I'm eager to try it next week at my LGS.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

Forgive me. I meant full Galvanic rifles, not arc.

Valid point on the Vanguard leader, though.

Adjusted to:

Infiltrator Princeps (Zealot) - 15
Carbine, Power Sword

Skitarii Ranger (Comms) - 10
Omnispex, Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Ranger Gunner (Sniper) - 15
Arquebus

Skitarii Vanguard Alpha (Leader) - 15
Carbine, Enhanced Data Tether

5x Skitarii Ranger -- 9 (45)
Galvanic Rifle

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/28 21:04:44


Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





One thing to note with ruststalkers in KT is that transonic blades are now free and there’s less of a reason to want that chord claw (which actually costs you more) than in 40k. So even though they still dont have any AP a ruststalker Zealot will have 4 str 6 attacks when it charges and 3 x str 5 in each subsequent round. There arent that many tough targets like there are in regular 40k, most things are T3-4 which a ruststalker wounds both on a 3.

Course an infiltrator zealot with a taser goad is already str 7 on charge with 3 attacks that you could doctrina to explode on 4s. You could always make either of them a combat specialist for a permanent +1 attack as well. Infiltrators are still a better bet, and the fact that they’re the same pts in KT is absurd.


One thing i notice no-one is accounting for is that as your fire teams and specialists level up, their points also go up. So if you’ve made your list for 97pts, youve not got a lot of wiggle room for levels ups. Unless everything youre playing is all lvl 1 matched play games. Which imo would be a terrible shame to waste all the goodies from lvl progression.
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

Cephalobeard wrote:Forgive me. I meant full Galvanic rifles, not arc.

Valid point on the Vanguard leader, though.

Adjusted to:

Infiltrator Princeps (Zealot) - 15
Carbine, Power Sword

Skitarii Ranger (Comms) - 10
Omnispex, Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Ranger Gunner (Sniper) - 15
Arquebus

Skitarii Vanguard Alpha (Leader) - 15
Carbine, Enhanced Data Tether

5x Skitarii Ranger -- 9 (45)
Galvanic Rifle

You forgot the Vanguard Alpha, he can't equip the data-tether, only a regular Vanguard/Ranger may do that. It's exactly like in normal 40k.

Octovol wrote:
One thing i notice no-one is accounting for is that as your fire teams and specialists level up, their points also go up. So if you’ve made your list for 97pts, youve not got a lot of wiggle room for levels ups. Unless everything youre playing is all lvl 1 matched play games. Which imo would be a terrible shame to waste all the goodies from lvl progression.

The group I am in is thinking about houseruling that progression doesn't cost any points. It's just harsh to make a lvl 4 Specialist cost 10+ more points, in the end you'll just play with 4 models as Skitarii seeing as your Arquebus sniper will cost 27 pts +- , while still having the same resilience as before. Paying more points because your team gains XP is not rewarding, it's a burden. It may not be a problem for "horde" players like Guards or Orks (and even then they'll still be fairly squishy) but in our case we already rarely go beyond 10 models.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

I've never touched admech in regular 40k. Good point, thank you for the reminder. Was a bit of an error due to originally not listing him as an alpha, but was then also reminded a leader needs to be an alpha, etc.

Easy fix.

Thank you!

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

That point increase for specialists is warranted. Pulling that out really tips the scale in favor of elite armies as now they're getting a huge step up and essentially playing with free models. A level 4 specialist for things like comms, leader, or sniper can really swing a game, they cost those points for a reason. Yeah it sucks you have to take less guys but that's why we have the option of switching up our kill teams between missions. It's there to not only give you a reason to consider taking new recruits over vets, but also to give a player who had a bad spell of luck with casualties a chance to catch back up as he'll be able to take more models than you to counteract the experience gap.

It's a clever fix to an issue that often popped up in shadow war, mainly that one player could have a bad game at the start and then never catch up as everyone else rocketed ahead with super elite teams and additional gear. By making veteran models cost more you ensure that no matter how bad you have a game go, you still have a chance to compete to some degree.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
 
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