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First of all, this isn't really a question per se, but rather a invitation to discuss. Basically, if you boil it down, most humans only want a few things out of life. Mainly, it is to reproduce - we search for a partner, produce offspring, secure their position in the world then our job is done. Secondly, we may seek purpose - whether it is serving another in pursuit of a larger goal or achieving smaller personal goals. Finally, there are those who seek wealth in life - to enjoy comforts and luxuries which ultimately boil down to 'sensations' for want of a better word.

So what is the deal with Renegades?

1. Space Marines, so far as we have been told, cannot reproduce. Moreover, their conditioning largely removes the desire for personal family, replacing it with a wish for brotherhood or camaraderie. So, in this sense, if a Space Marine goes renegade, he forsakes the camaraderie he may formerly have had and in any case has no desire to secure the future of any offspring - because he has no way to have any.

2. The pursuit of wealth - again, this is one argument I feel is kind of baseless. A Space Marine is already conditioned to have no real wish for material wealth as a human does, and even if he somehow breaks the deep conditioning, there is then the problem that the genetic changes undergone have chemically (hence physically) altered the patterns of thought that are generated. In other words, can you really argue that a marine has any need or desire for wealth? Furthermore, in terms of the accumulation of 'loot', the only material worth keeping (I hypothesise) would be weapons and armour - however the marine already has, on a technical level, some of the best weaponry and armour ever created, rivalled only by DAoT stuff which is incredibly hard to come by, even for the vast resources of the whole Imperium. So again, what purpose does wealth serve to a Renegade?

3. Finally, the pursuit of power. Now, arguably this is the greatest argument. However, a Renegade, by definition, has eschewed not only the Imperium, but also Chaos. In the Imperium, Astartes are highly influential, second only to the Inquisition in terms of being able to requisition resources and are generally revered/feared by almost everyone. If that is not the definition of power, then I don't know what is. However, the only level of greater power which they may seek, that of immortality and primacy over the Imperium, can only be granted by Chaos - which they have rejected as well. So, what kind of power do they seek? A pocket Empire is kind of pointless, because once you've established it, what do you do next? Sit around and gather money that you have no idea what to spend it on? Paint nudes? Garden?

This I feel is the problem with Blackshields as a concept. They don't fight for the Imperium, they don't fight for Chaos/Horus - instead they just wander around blowing s**t up for the giggles whilst collecting a bunch of stuff that ultimately, they don't really need or want. At least, that's how I see it. So tell me - what are the flaws in my way of thinking and what do you think?

They want wealth, power, worldly pleasures that were originally denied to them, and to rule over normal humans because they feel they are superior in every way.

So basically everything CSM want.

They are no longer fighting for someone else, they are fighting for themselves.

They are a mixed group. Some feel they are better serving the imperium or their image of what the imperium should be. Some have been exiled for crossing the wrong people or organization within the imperium, but they aren't traitors to the imperium or the human race as a whole. Some want to rule their own petty kingdoms. Some simply want to experience a degree of free will and independence. Also, they can reproduce in as meaningful of a way as normal humans - that is to say, they can keep their "species" alive, i.e. keep their chapter going.

Renegade is a pretty broad area - it seems like it could range from full on Chaos worship to just the sort of 'rogue cop' stuff you'd see in a police drama. If say a marine captain disobeyed orders because they thought they had a better plan, etc.

I could easily seem some of the more zealous chapters verging into a hyper-paranoia that would lead them renegade. Chapters are fairly insular, marines know they're the best, it's easy to see how a group could see themselves as being held back by the lesser mortals or even lesser marines.

So I could see some renegades thinking they're still fighting for the Imperium even as they slaughter anyone standing in the way.

Or conversely I can see them acting without any reason - some marines just want to watch the world burn after all.

w1zard wrote:They want wealth, power, worldly pleasures that were originally denied to them, and to rule over normal humans because they feel they are superior in every way.

So basically everything CSM want.

They are no longer fighting for someone else, they are fighting for themselves.

Granted, but once they have all of those - which for a group of Astartes, is far easier to achieve (and is hence a 'lesser' goal) than for a human - what use does it serve? Astartes have no need or desire for any of that as they are, to most intents and purposes, outside the social constructs that humans create to justify wanting that. They have no need for money, because they are powerful enough to take what they want. Pleasure is already conditioned out of them, both mentally and physically, by the process of transformation. At least that is how I understand it. Only power remains, but most humans only seek to rule so they can enjoy the benefits of ruling - wealth, pleasure or a higher goal. Few people rule just for the crack, just because they can. Because ultimately running an empire is tedious if you aren't personally benefiting from it.

Grumblewartz wrote:They are a mixed group. Some feel they are better serving the imperium or their image of what the imperium should be. Some have been exiled for crossing the wrong people or organization within the imperium, but they aren't traitors to the imperium or the human race as a whole. Some want to rule their own petty kingdoms. Some simply want to experience a degree of free will and independence. Also, they can reproduce in as meaningful of a way as normal humans - that is to say, they can keep their "species" alive, i.e. keep their chapter going.

The 'reproduction' via geneseed is a very good point - I'd never have thought of it like that That said, they could just as easily do that as part of a Chapter than off by themselves, and I don't think it would be a sufficiently large driving force for them to go rogue. But good point well made sir/madam

ScarletRose wrote:Renegade is a pretty broad area - it seems like it could range from full on Chaos worship to just the sort of 'rogue cop' stuff you'd see in a police drama. If say a marine captain disobeyed orders because they thought they had a better plan, etc.

I could easily seem some of the more zealous chapters verging into a hyper-paranoia that would lead them renegade. Chapters are fairly insular, marines know they're the best, it's easy to see how a group could see themselves as being held back by the lesser mortals or even lesser marines.

So I could see some renegades thinking they're still fighting for the Imperium even as they slaughter anyone standing in the way.

Or conversely I can see them acting without any reason - some marines just want to watch the world burn after all.

I should clarify - I mean renegade as purely those that have rejected the temptation of Chaos (Which would then give them a greater goal and justification for doing what they do). I'm talking just about those who go off on their own and according to GW, do their own thing. As for your points, yeah - I can totally see that some will just want to blow stuff up for the sake of it - but if you're functionally immortal, that's going to get boring sooner rather than later. The point of them creating/fighting for a 'better' Imperium I can certainly see and indeed would provide them with the impetus to carve out their own Empires. In fact, I'd love to see a renegade faction of Salamanders start up a progressive IoM - would totally fit with their image as Guardians of Humanity.

I think it's mostly the sense of superiority, and the feel that they were otherwise being opressed or constrained by "the system".

So you have renegades going rogue so they can enforce their will on others, or those who feel that either they are being kept down by their inferiors, or those who might actually be trying to help those "truly in need" by bucking the bureocracy that they feel is hampering things more than helping.

It is obscenely difficult to not get branded a Heretic or Renegade in 40k. Any. Any. Independent thought or action could have you branded as such.

I'd start with two broad categories. Selfish and Selfless. In the Selfless category, their renegade status is the "cost" of their honour to pursue a "higher calling." It is noble of them to sacrifice their "place" in the Imperium to help the Imperium.

As for Selfish... bit trickier. The desire for independence would be one option. Maybe you don't want an empire. Maybe you don't want to be a warrior. Maybe you are just sick of the endless war, and want to find peace. Admittedly, why are you on the tabletop? Maybe you're a clan, on the run, and you've been caught by the local Imperial Authority / Vengeful Spirits / Bugs / whatever and you're fighting your way out.

Maybe you just like lording it over others, Pirate Captain style. You don't want to work often, like having lackeys do your laundry, you're already good at killing stuff. Plucking the wealth and resources from passing ships is easy money / access to resources... like oxygen. Beats having your face blown off by a plasmagun or bio acid.

Revenge. The Imperium left you to die on some forgotten gak-hole of a planet, but you didn't. Now, you seek revenge because them guys is donkey-caves.

You pull a Lord Cypher and determine that the best way to help the imperium is to challenge it.

An overwhelming sense of nihilism holds you. Nothing matters, so you might as well end it all. Or not! Because it doesn't matter! Hahahahahaha!

Psycho conditioning was imperfect. The code was broken. Tic-tic-tick.

Arrogance. You're better than those sheep that just follow orders. You're strong, and the galaxy doesn't give a fart in the wind for you or the people you kill to take what you want... whatever that may be.

Suicide by Imperium. You're conditioned to survive, regardless of the odds. But you're sick of living. So you attack the Imperium, hoping to be put out of your misery.

Boredom?

Determinism. Those that live by the sword, are doomed to die by it. You cannot resist the call of glorious battle!

Honour debt. Someone saved your life / your chapter / your dog and now you owe them, so you live your life as a bodyguard for some schmuck.

Nobody in the chapter would massage your progenoid glands. These folks will, and all you have to do is point and click your bolter at whomever they tell you to. Sweet!

Freaky Friday. You and some Marine both made a wish at the same time, to have a body swap... and it happened. Now you're a Guardsman trapped in a Space Marine's body! Stupid warp shenanigans!

 Warpig1815 wrote:
They have no need for money, because they are powerful enough to take what they want.

Money can get them things they cannot get through fighting alone. Although it is less of a priority, greed is still a pretty strong motivating factor for renegades and CSM.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Pleasure is already conditioned out of them, both mentally and physically, by the process of transformation. At least that is how I understand it.

No. The the entire emperor's children legion were corrupted by pleasure. Wine, a fine meal, sex, comfort, these things hold just as much allure for a space marine as it does for a normal human.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Only power remains, but most humans only seek to rule so they can enjoy the benefits of ruling - wealth, pleasure or a higher goal. Few people rule just for the crack, just because they can. Because ultimately running an empire is tedious if you aren't personally benefiting from it.

The allure of simply RULING is it's own reward. You think people want to be in charge simply because it benefits them in some other way? People want to be in charge because they enjoy the feeling of being in charge. Authority is an aphrodisiac as the saying goes. I would imagine this holds true for astartes as well.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
First of all, this isn't really a question per se, but rather a invitation to discuss. Basically, if you boil it down, most humans only want a few things out of life. Mainly, it is to reproduce - we search for a partner, produce offspring, secure their position in the world then our job is done. Secondly, we may seek purpose - whether it is serving another in pursuit of a larger goal or achieving smaller personal goals. Finally, there are those who seek wealth in life - to enjoy comforts and luxuries which ultimately boil down to 'sensations' for want of a better word.

So what is the deal with Renegades?

1. Space Marines, so far as we have been told, cannot reproduce. Moreover, their conditioning largely removes the desire for personal family, replacing it with a wish for brotherhood or camaraderie. So, in this sense, if a Space Marine goes renegade, he forsakes the camaraderie he may formerly have had and in any case has no desire to secure the future of any offspring - because he has no way to have any.

2. The pursuit of wealth - again, this is one argument I feel is kind of baseless. A Space Marine is already conditioned to have no real wish for material wealth as a human does, and even if he somehow breaks the deep conditioning, there is then the problem that the genetic changes undergone have chemically (hence physically) altered the patterns of thought that are generated. In other words, can you really argue that a marine has any need or desire for wealth? Furthermore, in terms of the accumulation of 'loot', the only material worth keeping (I hypothesise) would be weapons and armour - however the marine already has, on a technical level, some of the best weaponry and armour ever created, rivalled only by DAoT stuff which is incredibly hard to come by, even for the vast resources of the whole Imperium. So again, what purpose does wealth serve to a Renegade?

3. Finally, the pursuit of power. Now, arguably this is the greatest argument. However, a Renegade, by definition, has eschewed not only the Imperium, but also Chaos. In the Imperium, Astartes are highly influential, second only to the Inquisition in terms of being able to requisition resources and are generally revered/feared by almost everyone. If that is not the definition of power, then I don't know what is. However, the only level of greater power which they may seek, that of immortality and primacy over the Imperium, can only be granted by Chaos - which they have rejected as well. So, what kind of power do they seek? A pocket Empire is kind of pointless, because once you've established it, what do you do next? Sit around and gather money that you have no idea what to spend it on? Paint nudes? Garden?

This I feel is the problem with Blackshields as a concept. They don't fight for the Imperium, they don't fight for Chaos/Horus - instead they just wander around blowing s**t up for the giggles whilst collecting a bunch of stuff that ultimately, they don't really need or want. At least, that's how I see it. So tell me - what are the flaws in my way of thinking and what do you think?

They want what their gods want, like World Eaters want to shed blood and take skulls, plus they all want power and immortality, its really that simple. But for renegades specifically, its just down to wanting to fight and gain power I think. All any Astarted wan't is a war to fight.

I think their motivations would largely depend on how much they can break out of their conditioning. My impression of your standard SM is that they are similar to Kurt Russel's character in soldier. They are conditioned to do a job, do it well, and not question why they need to do it or why they should sacrifice themselves for inferior humans. A lot of things like desire and ambition are sandblasted out of their head so they have no problems spending years simply training, praying, and inspecting gear without complaint.

I'm not saying it's all erased from them. I'd imagine that most SM leadership retain more ambition and desire than a regular SM, for example. I think the reason why you get a lot of stories of renegade chapters still fighting for the Imperium because they are still doing what they are programmed to do. Chaos can pick up a lot because they know how to use that conditioning against other SM.

I doubt you'll find many SM going "this job is dull and pays crap, let's go out and make some real money". I'd think piracy would be done out of necessity to keep operating and even then they might have to do things like start using a lasgun because they're easier to supply than a bolter. Even creating their own kingdoms might start out as simply trying to reconnect with a military again and gain supplies before deciding they could run things more efficiently.

I guess I just have a hard time seeing them as having the dreams and ambitions of characters like Beowulf or Conan who want to make a name for themselves and build their own kingdom. I see them more as DeRo or TeRo in the Shaver Mysteries, organic robots that are no longer functioning correctly.

the existance of CSMs suggests you're wrong Skaorn. I think most space mariens who go renegade ultimately want freedom. the Space Marines life is VERY regimented. I mean they're handed a great deal of individual power, but they live as warrior monks, is the idea that some might want more then that really that odd?

The marine in the deamon world wanted his soul back of the gods, think he got it, can’t remember

For some renegades it isn't always a question of what they want, it's a question of what they need. The marines themself are long-lived and very hard to kill, but they also have equipment to take care of like their arms and armor, ships, vehicles and so on. Cut off from the IoM they're now totally reliant on what few TechMarines and servitors they have. They no longer receive any spare parts or replacements from the AdMech, the Navy doesn't refuel/rearm their ships and even something as "simple" as boltgun ammo might be a problem to replenish.

Whatever reason they had for going renegade will often be overshadowed by the things they have to do simply to survive as a working force. They have to bully people, fight or steal. Unscrupulous groups (sometimes not even human but xenos) will offer them supplies for mercenary work, often highly risky and dubious in nature. This is one reason these groups sometimes go Chaos in the end - it is a "reliable" way to secure the things needed for just going on.

I don't think it's fair to say Renegades have any single goal as they're like Eldar Corsairs. They aren't even vaguely unified in goals or anything it's just a broad generalisation for a category of enemy. In the case of Renegades Astartes who have abandoned the Imperium but haven't fallen to Chaos.

Broadly they could be after power via raiding or domination which will probably lead them to Chaos, they could just want to be free to do what they want, they could be fairly odd Marines and become peaceful monks somewhere or they could do what my Wolves Company do and separate from the Imperium and go off protecting people on independent worlds.

Renegade just means they aren't loyal to the Imperium. They range from full-on Chaos worshippers to Chapters who have been excommunicated but still see themselves as loyal even if the Imperium doesn't. As such they don't really share any unified goal so what they want will be different for each Chapter/Legion.

w1zard wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
They have no need for money, because they are powerful enough to take what they want.

Money can get them things they cannot get through fighting alone. Although it is less of a priority, greed is still a pretty strong motivating factor for renegades and CSM.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Pleasure is already conditioned out of them, both mentally and physically, by the process of transformation. At least that is how I understand it.

No. The the entire emperor's children legion were corrupted by pleasure. Wine, a fine meal, sex, comfort, these things hold just as much allure for a space marine as it does for a normal human.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Only power remains, but most humans only seek to rule so they can enjoy the benefits of ruling - wealth, pleasure or a higher goal. Few people rule just for the crack, just because they can. Because ultimately running an empire is tedious if you aren't personally benefiting from it.

The allure of simply RULING is it's own reward. You think people want to be in charge simply because it benefits them in some other way? People want to be in charge because they enjoy the feeling of being in charge. Authority is an aphrodisiac as the saying goes. I would imagine this holds true for astartes as well.

I doubt there are few things in the 40k Universe that fighting cannot get you, at least as far as a Space Marine is concerned. The trouble I have is that a Space Marine is essentially a killing machine. When you have a ship capable of bombarding a planet into submission, what need have you of buying things - you take what you want. As for collecting wealth simply to look at the pretty shinies, again Space Marines have that conditioned out of them. It's the same for the pleasure point. You say 'Hah, but look at the EC!'. True. But the EC did not come to that conclusion of their own free will. They were steadily corrupted and their mental patterns subverted by Slaanesh. So, whilst those desires may hold true for a Chaos Marine - for a Renegade Marine, who has simply broken away from his Chapter, I struggle to see how those desires may come about. It's like they say - you don't miss what you never had. The more so if you've undergone a rigorous program of hypno-indoctrination, chemical treatment and not to mention a whole new set of DNA implanted into you, from the age of circa 15 onwards. Of course, I agree that SM's do have the same desires as humans - but they are highly repressed. I can't see how simply wanting some fine dining leads to going rogue. Indeed, being as SM Chapters often have astronomical resources to call upon, fine dining certainly isn't out of their remit.

I think rather, I prefer the idea posited by some of the contributors here - that Renegades rarely go rogue themselves, but are instead pushed out for various 'infractions' by an uncaring bureaucracy. Then, they resort to piracy and raiding in an effort to support themselves and possibly, to make themselves relevant again. I'd imagine a lot of their actions are actually borne of a desire to have purpose, seeing as they lost their main purpose as a guardian of the Imperium. I agree that a good deal of their 'conquests' is based around a desire to remake the Imperium as they feel it should be as well.

Anyhow, thanks for all the contributions - puts a slightly different perspective on Renegades for me, because I've always struggled with the concept of Marines who are allied to nothing but themselves.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
...again Space Marines have that conditioned out of them. It's the same for the pleasure point. You say 'Hah, but look at the EC!'. True. But the EC did not come to that conclusion of their own free will. They were steadily corrupted and their mental patterns subverted by Slaanesh. So, whilst those desires may hold true for a Chaos Marine - for a Renegade Marine, who has simply broken away from his Chapter, I struggle to see how those desires may come about. It's like they say - you don't miss what you never had. The more so if you've undergone a rigorous program of hypno-indoctrination, chemical treatment and not to mention a whole new set of DNA implanted into you, from the age of circa 15 onwards. Of course, I agree that SM's do have the same desires as humans - but they are highly repressed....

And when that repression comes undone through mental trauma?

Space Marines are human. They may undergo hypno-therapy, chemical regimens, genetic implantation, and mental training, but they are still fundamentally human at their core, and thus have all of the same flaws a normal human would have. The Horus Heresy and bickering between the primarchs is proof of this.

It is not so much missing what you never had, but wanting what you never had and feeling like it was unfairly kept from you.

There's also the factor that loyalists have Chaplains around to fix anyone whose therapy etc starts coming undone whereas Renegades have their friends? Maybe.

 Warpig1815 wrote:

w1zard wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
They have no need for money, because they are powerful enough to take what they want.

Money can get them things they cannot get through fighting alone. Although it is less of a priority, greed is still a pretty strong motivating factor for renegades and CSM.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Pleasure is already conditioned out of them, both mentally and physically, by the process of transformation. At least that is how I understand it.

No. The the entire emperor's children legion were corrupted by pleasure. Wine, a fine meal, sex, comfort, these things hold just as much allure for a space marine as it does for a normal human.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Only power remains, but most humans only seek to rule so they can enjoy the benefits of ruling - wealth, pleasure or a higher goal. Few people rule just for the crack, just because they can. Because ultimately running an empire is tedious if you aren't personally benefiting from it.

The allure of simply RULING is it's own reward. You think people want to be in charge simply because it benefits them in some other way? People want to be in charge because they enjoy the feeling of being in charge. Authority is an aphrodisiac as the saying goes. I would imagine this holds true for astartes as well.

I doubt there are few things in the 40k Universe that fighting cannot get you, at least as far as a Space Marine is concerned. The trouble I have is that a Space Marine is essentially a killing machine. When you have a ship capable of bombarding a planet into submission, what need have you of buying things - you take what you want. As for collecting wealth simply to look at the pretty shinies, again Space Marines have that conditioned out of them. It's the same for the pleasure point. You say 'Hah, but look at the EC!'. True. But the EC did not come to that conclusion of their own free will. They were steadily corrupted and their mental patterns subverted by Slaanesh. So, whilst those desires may hold true for a Chaos Marine - for a Renegade Marine, who has simply broken away from his Chapter, I struggle to see how those desires may come about. It's like they say - you don't miss what you never had. The more so if you've undergone a rigorous program of hypno-indoctrination, chemical treatment and not to mention a whole new set of DNA implanted into you, from the age of circa 15 onwards. Of course, I agree that SM's do have the same desires as humans - but they are highly repressed. I can't see how simply wanting some fine dining leads to going rogue. Indeed, being as SM Chapters often have astronomical resources to call upon, fine dining certainly isn't out of their remit.

I think rather, I prefer the idea posited by some of the contributors here - that Renegades rarely go rogue themselves, but are instead pushed out for various 'infractions' by an uncaring bureaucracy. Then, they resort to piracy and raiding in an effort to support themselves and possibly, to make themselves relevant again. I'd imagine a lot of their actions are actually borne of a desire to have purpose, seeing as they lost their main purpose as a guardian of the Imperium. I agree that a good deal of their 'conquests' is based around a desire to remake the Imperium as they feel it should be as well.

Anyhow, thanks for all the contributions - puts a slightly different perspective on Renegades for me, because I've always struggled with the concept of Marines who are allied to nothing but themselves.

I think this is closest to the truth. Although, I'd imagine that these rogue elements would go underground in the Imperium, more or less. Imagine that these Space Marines still want to fight for the Imperium, even if they aren't recognized. Do they fight a planetary governor for supplies, or do they offer to help deal with the cultist problem? Are 'your dudes' running around doing the job of the Deathwatch for cash, gas, and ammo? Sounds like the fate of a Renegade. They might even do well for themselves as shadowy operatives if they were smart about it. An underground group of Space Marines that doesn't let anyone know they are Space Marines sounds pretty bad ass. Like a less psyker-centric version of the Grey Knights.

Some just want candy.

I'm sure I read an interesting short story or two about a band of SM who went renegade - they got sent on a suicide mission, and decided to blow away their chaplain and become pirates. Quite an interesting story, I'll have to look it up again. And there was that Constantine/Constantius chap who decided he wanted to become planetary ruler.

But a band of Marines, feeling they've been forgotten, abandoned, or sent on a suicide mission for stupid reasons, propping up a corrupt bureaucracy? Feeling that their honour has been ignored or stripped from them, maybe feeling that they no longer owe anything to the Imperium? I can imagine how that might provoke someone to give it all up and go rogue.

And at that point, you put a target on your head. So, you need supplies, strength. Maybe build up some defenses. And after all, SM are supposed to take worlds, so why not take some backwater planet and do the Huron Blackheart thing - build up an empire of your own.
Or perhaps it would be better to keep moving? But that needs fuel, ships, repairs for wear and tear on ships. So, piracy - raiding outposts for military supplies, maybe building a fleet.

Then it's just a case of carrying on to keep surviving - there might be no goal beyond that, just living one more day before the Imperium tracks them down.

 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
I'm sure I read an interesting short story or two about a band of SM who went renegade - they got sent on a suicide mission, and decided to blow away their chaplain and become pirates. Quite an interesting story, I'll have to look it up again. And there was that Constantine/Constantius chap who decided he wanted to become planetary ruler.

But a band of Marines, feeling they've been forgotten, abandoned, or sent on a suicide mission for stupid reasons, propping up a corrupt bureaucracy? Feeling that their honour has been ignored or stripped from them, maybe feeling that they no longer owe anything to the Imperium? I can imagine how that might provoke someone to give it all up and go rogue.

And at that point, you put a target on your head. So, you need supplies, strength. Maybe build up some defenses. And after all, SM are supposed to take worlds, so why not take some backwater planet and do the Huron Blackheart thing - build up an empire of your own.
Or perhaps it would be better to keep moving? But that needs fuel, ships, repairs for wear and tear on ships. So, piracy - raiding outposts for military supplies, maybe building a fleet.

Then it's just a case of carrying on to keep surviving - there might be no goal beyond that, just living one more day before the Imperium tracks them down.

You could always pretend to be completely loyalist on the outskirts like the Space Sharks. Say you're on a 'penitent crusade' or something and give a sob story to some Guard regiment who needs help. If they look you up on the space internet and see something odd, just say the paperwork was delayed by the rift and whatnot. Are they going to turn down space marines helping them?

It's a in the "Let the Galaxy BURN!!!" Slogan, methinks.

In Imperium Nihilus, there is plenty of room for pocket empires by ambitious Guard and Navy commanders, as well as Space Marine Chapters doing personal empire building. With the rift cutting off travel and communication, many regions would be isolated and would have to look to their own defense. They might be doing so for selfish reasons or genuinely well meaning attempts to preserve what they see as the Imperium while awaiting contact (which may never come) from Terra and the other half of the Imperium. Of course, humanity being what it is, I could then see such pocket empires going to war with each other for various material or ideological reasons. It would be an easy way to justify Imperial on Imperial wars, with both sides claiming the other is heretical.

What do Renegades want?


Aw tell me what ya want
What ya really really want?
I just wanna fire my bolter
Killin heretics wit my friends!
Yeah if ya wanna be battle brothers
Ya gotta stick it to tha Imperium!

Oh tell me whatcha want
Whatcha really really want?
Yeah tell me what ya want
Whatcha really really want!
Don't wanna be like Horus
Just hate gettin used as fodder
When we got so many guardsmen!
Yeah if ya wanna be my battle brother
Ya gotta stick it to the Imperium!

You might have chapters who realise the Imperium is corrupt. Remember that Space Marines are outside the chain of command, they are (at least the 1st and 2nd foundings) loyal to The Emperor, not the Imperium.

If you look how SM are recruited at a young age and what they must be put through before becomming SM it is safe to asume they are not very good in the head. (This can be reflected in how the custodians view them.) Even if the SM has built in some neo-genetic trauma protection (by way of the SM creation process) there is no way their psykee is comparative to a regular humans motivations.

Asking what a renegade space marine wants might be the wrong question. It can also be how any given SM act in a give situation, breed for war and knowing only war, surounded by like minded induviduals functioning as an echo chamber. All you need is a slight deviation in the wrong direction before they descent into what other could discent as heresey.

Why would anyone play 40K? It doesn't help make babies. It doesn't get you wealth. It doesn't get you power. Why would anyone buy or play with these toys? I don't get it.

And, if instead of playing with little toys, you could wear real power armour and shoot a real bolter and swing a real chainsword at the brainwashed soldiers of the corrupt Imperium... no, I don't see any appeal at all for that, either.

So they can't have family? They don't really feel simple pleasures.

What's left but power?

Go out and conquer and rule as much as you can grab. Marines actully have less power than even a guradsmen on an individual level. They are totally and completely regimented, no freedom, not even any free time.

feth that noise, lest go be kings.