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Hello,

our play group has moved to hand to hand combat which we didn't use much before. A lot of questions came up and not all of them have clear and widely accepted answers in a single place. This thread will summary the rules as we understood them so far but we really need an Adeptus of the Codex to clear things a bit! Thanks in advance!

Updated stack:
1) charge movements and overwatch
a) the attacking player declares the unit that will charge and its targets
b) the defending player fires overwatch, if a charging unit survives the overwatch and makes the charge, the defending unit can no longer fire overwatch
c) attacking player repeats a) and defending player b) for all the charging units (the charging units are not declared all upfront, but one by one after each charge is resolved)
d) After all charges are done, the defending player can use Heroic intervention, in this moment characters can move up to 3'' to become within 1'' of enemy models, this is not a charging move and must be done before pile-ins.

2) charging units activation
a) the attacking player chooses the first charging unit and activates it (meaning: pile-in, fight, consolidate)
b) this is the earliest moment where Counter Offensive can be played by the defending player: he can choose any of his units which is eligible to fight (within 1'' of an enemy) and fight with it. This chosen unit can be a one that was charged this turn because the charge movement has already been done, it can also be a character which intervened. The target of counter offensive can be anything which is in fighting range (units that charged, units that where already there, first unit that consolidated against another unit)
c) the attacking players activates (pile-in, fight, consolidate) all the other chagrin units, the defending player can decide to play Counter Offensive if he didn't already

3) normal fights
a) the attacking player decide who chooses which unit to fight with first (he may have other units already in combat from previous turns)
b) one by one units get activated and the fights resolved

4) end of combat
a) Honour the Chapter stratagem or similar can be played by any player, the player chooses an eligible unit to fight and fights (meaning it will pile-in, fight, consolidate)



OPEN QUESTIONS:
-in the normal fight phase (not charging units), is there any scenario where, thanks to the pile-in, the activated unit can touch some other unit, not the one which was fighting previously, and fight also that new unit?
-Yes, a unit that is already in close combat (has not charged) can use the pile-in movement to get in combat also with some other unit (whereas a charging unit must declare the targets upfront, regardless of what will or will not be able to get contact with)


First version, I'll leave for reference with the errors in red and corrections in green

 Findarfin wrote:

A charging units can attack only units against which she declared the charge (we didn't find any exception yet, not in the stratagems not in the units, can you find an exception?)

Correct, on the turn a unit charges, they may only direct attacks against a unit they declared a charge against. Even if they get to fight multiple times. On subsequent turns they can fight anyone they are within an inch of.

one by one the charging units are picked by the attacking player: the selected unit gets the overwatch if any, pile in, fight, consolidate (this was something we messed up, by making all pile-ins and all consolidate together, both the attacker and the defender, it was never really clear which units the defender could or could not fight with)

Not quite. Charging units are resolved one at a time, including firing overwatch and moving the units. However, the actual fighting happens after all charging units have completed their charges.

after the charges are done, normal fights start, in particular the defender may have units which survived the charge or units that are now within 1'' because of pile-in and consolidation even if the charge was not declared against them.

After charges are done, all charging units (as well as those with special "fight first" abilities) pile-in and make their attacks. If both players have units that meet this criteria, they alternate who fights (of those units). After which, all remaining units (from both sides) that have not yet fought, proceed to do so, alternating between players.

The defender and the attacker alternate fighting units (this can happen if the attacker had some units locked in previous fights, otherwise it's just the defender)

The process is the same for each selected unit: pile-in, fight, consolidate

See above.

HEROIC INTERVENTION?

If there is a defending character within 3'' of an attacking model and he has space to be placed (?) he can immediately move and touch the attacking model.

Correct, note however you do not need to be in base contact to fight, and Heroic Intervention requires you to end the 3" move closer to the nearest enemy model.

How many heroic intervention is it possible to do in a turn?

As many times as a CHARACTER model meets the requirement. Note that any given model can only perform a single Heroic Intervention.

The intervention can be done after the charge movement but also after the pile in, or after fight or after the consolidate

Only after all charges are complete.

Heroic intervention is not a charge, unless some special rules apply, the hero will attack after all the charges are finished, moreover if the charge was declared also against him the unit can decide to fight also him if they didn't fight yet

Correct, unless the CHARACTER has a fight first ability, it does not attack until after all chargers and units with a Fight First ability.

what happens if a unit charges, piles in, fights, now there's the heroic intervention, can it use the consolidate to "run away"? I think not because the consolidate must be toward the closest enemy, which will be the character?

Will never happen.

COUNTER OFFENSIVE?

After the first attacking and charging unit has fought, this stratagem allows the defender to pick a unit eligible for fighting and fight. Eligible means that, for whatever reason, it has an enemy model within 1'', for instance because of an heroic intervention or because the attacker moved with pile-ins and consolidate against other defending units

The stratagem is used after *any* enemy unit that charged fights, it does not have to be the first one. And yes, it must have an enemy model within 1".

Say that there are 2 charging units into 2 different defending units, no characters. The first charge goes off, pile in, fight (no consolidate yet). Now its the time for the stratagem but in this scenario: the initially charged unit will fight against the charger anyway later on, the other charged unit has no-one within 1'' because the other charger has still to charge and pile-in (is this right? I think so, but it's always confusing)

So basically the only scenario where the second charging unit gets beaten before fighting is that for whatever reason it was within 3'' of a defending character in its initial position (before even doing the charge move)

The basic useful scenario for this stratagem is that a single defending unit is charged by 2 attacking units, the stratagem allows the survivors of the first wave to fight the first attackers before the second wave comes in

Again, all charges are completed before you move on to fighting.

So let me try to help you with this then. Just so you know, I do play competitively and this is something that has always had a little confusion in my group when 8th came out and whenever someone tries to get into our group. I will try to go with your points here in order.

GENERAL CONSENSUS SO FAR

1) A charging units can attack only units against which she declared the charge (we didn't find any exception yet, not in the stratagems not in the units, can you find an exception?)

You are correct, In a fight phase, the brb tells us that a unit that charges can only fight against whatever they declared charge against. Even Khorne Beserkers who can fight twice as two separate activations, can only fight what they declared in the charge phase. For Example, your charge phase and your Space Marine terminators charge my unit of cultists, and only cultists. They will be able to pile in, fight the cultists, and consolidate. If you then use a stratagem that allows you to fight again, you can only fight the one cultist unit you charged, making the stratagem useless if you happened to kill all of them already. You can pile in and consolidate into other units as long as your models each individually move so that they end closer to the nearest enemy model than they started. But if you did not declare these units as part of your charge, you still can take these moves to get to within 1", but then you will do nothing against them and suffer those units attacking back.


2) one by one the charging units are picked by the attacking player: the selected unit gets the overwatch if any, pile in, fight, consolidate (this was something we messed up, by making all pile-ins and all consolidate together, both the attacker and the defender, it was never really clear which units the defender could or could not fight with)

So not exactly like how you said. In the Charge phase, you the current turn player, decides which units of yours want to charge, and in what order. You do not have to declare them ahead of time like 7th edition! You will choose a unit, Space marine terminators, you choose their target or targets, my cultists. After you have finished declaring all of your one unit's charge targets, I can choose whether to fire overwatch or not with each unit individually. If a unit becomes engaged in melee, it can no longer fire overwatch! If you charge the same unit multiple times, and say your first charge failed to make it, your charge target for the next unit still can fire overwatch. After all of your charges are finished, and Heroic Interventions, I will talk about them later, you move to the Fight Phase. You, the current player will pick a unit you successfully charged with and perform the following in order; Pile in, Fight, Consolidate. That is a unit activation. You will move through all of your charging units until you come to Ongoing Combat. In this case, since you are the current player, you can choose which player will get to activate a unit first in Ongoing Combat at this point, alternating between the players one at a time.

3) after the charges are done, normal fights start, in particular the defender may have units which survived the charge or units that are now within 1'' because of pile-in and consolidation even if the charge was not declared against them.

Already outlined above ^

4) The defender and the attacker alternate fighting units (this can happen if the attacker had some units locked in previous fights, otherwise it's just the defender)

Outlined above ^, just remember you get to choose in ongoing combat which player activates first.

5) The process is the same for each selected unit: pile-in, fight, consolidate

This is correct.

Ok, now onto the thing that annoys a lot of people. Heroic Intervention.
You declare Heroic Intervention at the end of your opponent's charge phase. Any number of your CHARACTERS that are within 3" of an enemy unit at the end of your opponent's charge phase can declare a Heroic Intervention. Multiple characters can delcare this in the same phase, they just need to be within 3" of an enemy unit to do so. When you declare it, you can move your character up to three inches closer to the nearest enemy model, trying to get to within 1" of that enemy model. This is not a charge so they will fight in Ongoing Combat, also charging units can not attack your characters unless they were declared as charge targets. Now to the thing that is powerful about Heroic Intervention, Your characters do not need to be within 3" of an enemy charging unit to declare Heroic Intervention, they just need to be within 3" of an enemy unit. The other thing, even if your opponent does not charge, you can Heroic Intervention, beaucse all players move through al phases of a turn. (I will probably get backlash from that.)


Counter Offensive strategem.

1) After the first attacking and charging unit has fought, this stratagem allows the defender to pick a unit eligible for fighting and fight. Eligible means that, for whatever reason, it has an enemy model within 1'', for instance because of an heroic intervention or because the attacker moved with pile-ins and consolidate against other defending units

Yes you are essentially correct. After an enemy unit that has charged has fought... But you can delcare this strategem after any enemy charging unit, not just the first enemy charger.

2) Say that there are 2 charging units into 2 different defending units, no characters. The first charge goes off, pile in, fight (no consolidate yet). Now its the time for the stratagem but in this scenario: the initially charged unit will fight against the charger anyway later on, the other charged unit has no-one within 1'' because the other charger has still to charge and pile-in (is this right? I think so, but it's always confusing)

You wait until the first enemy unit in your scenario finished consolidation. Then you declare the use of your stratagem. You would do this to fight with your second unit before the second charger, because by default of the enemy completing a charge means that they are within a inch of you. So your second, or first if you want to, unit will pile in, fight, then consolidate.

3) So basically the only scenario where the second charging unit gets beaten before fighting is that for whatever reason it was within 3'' of a defending character in its initial position (before even doing the charge move)

No, outlined above^

4)The basic useful scenario for this stratagem is that a single defending unit is charged by 2 attacking units, the stratagem allows the survivors of the first wave to fight the first attackers before the second wave comes in

You can choose to fight the second unit before it strikes if you want, baring all previuosly mention restrictions above^

I hope this helps, and does not seem confusing. And please forgive spelling errors.

HappyJew has an answer: "will never happen"; I would like to explain that as a "cannot happen", or, "no, because:"

If a Character performed a Heroic Intervention, they have generally become the nearest enemy model to the Consolidating unit(or, at least, some models within the consolidating unit); therefore the consolidating unit cannot move away from the Character enemy model.

Thanks everyone! So I've an updated version which incorporates all your suggestions


Updated stack:
1) charge movements and overwatch
a) the attacking player declares all the charges and does the charge movement for all the units (he can decide which one is charging in first for the purpose of overwatch)
b) the defending player fires overwatch, if a charging unit survives the overwatch, the defending unit can no longer fire overwatch
b) Heroic intervention, in this moment characters can move up to 3'' to become within 1'' of enemy models, this is not a charging move and must be done before pile-ins.

2) charging units activation
a) the attacking player chooses the first charging unit and activates it (meaning: pile-in, fight, consolidate)
b) this is the earliest moment where Counter Offensive can be played by the defending player: he can choose any of his units which is eligible to fight (within 1'' of an enemy) and fight with it. This chosen unit can be a one that was charged this turn because the charge movement has already been done, it can also be a character which intervened. The target of counter offensive can be anything which is in fighting range (units that charged, units that where already there, first unit that consolidated against another unit)
c) the attacking players activates (pile-in, fight, consolidate) all the other chagrin units, the defending player can decide to play Counter Offensive if he didn't already

3) normal fights
a) the attacking player decide who chooses which unit to fight with first (he may have other units already in combat from previous turns)
b) one by one units get activated and the fights resolved
c) in no case a unit can use pile-in/consolidate movements to "run away" from a unit which is in close combat with.

4) end of combat
a) Honour the Chapter stratagem or similar can be played by any player, the player chooses an eligible unit to fight and fights (meaning it will pile-in, fight, consolidate)



OPEN QUESTIONS:
-in the normal fight phase (not charging units), is there any scenario where, thanks to the pile-in, the activated unit can touch some other unit, not the one which was fighting previously, and fight also that new unit?

Happyjew wrote:

 Findarfin wrote:

A charging units can attack only units against which she declared the charge (we didn't find any exception yet, not in the stratagems not in the units, can you find an exception?)

Correct, on the turn a unit charges, they may only direct attacks against a unit they declared a charge against. Even if they get to fight multiple times. On subsequent turns they can fight anyone they are within an inch of.

one by one the charging units are picked by the attacking player: the selected unit gets the overwatch if any, pile in, fight, consolidate (this was something we messed up, by making all pile-ins and all consolidate together, both the attacker and the defender, it was never really clear which units the defender could or could not fight with)

Not quite. Charging units are resolved one at a time, including firing overwatch and moving the units. However, the actual fighting happens after all charging units have completed their charges.

after the charges are done, normal fights start, in particular the defender may have units which survived the charge or units that are now within 1'' because of pile-in and consolidation even if the charge was not declared against them.

After charges are done, all charging units (as well as those with special "fight first" abilities) pile-in and make their attacks. If both players have units that meet this criteria, they alternate who fights (of those units). After which, all remaining units (from both sides) that have not yet fought, proceed to do so, alternating between players.

The defender and the attacker alternate fighting units (this can happen if the attacker had some units locked in previous fights, otherwise it's just the defender)

The process is the same for each selected unit: pile-in, fight, consolidate

See above.

HEROIC INTERVENTION?

If there is a defending character within 3'' of an attacking model and he has space to be placed (?) he can immediately move and touch the attacking model.

Correct, note however you do not need to be in base contact to fight, and Heroic Intervention requires you to end the 3" move closer to the nearest enemy model.

How many heroic intervention is it possible to do in a turn?

As many times as a CHARACTER model meets the requirement. Note that any given model can only perform a single Heroic Intervention.

The intervention can be done after the charge movement but also after the pile in, or after fight or after the consolidate

Only after all charges are complete.

Heroic intervention is not a charge, unless some special rules apply, the hero will attack after all the charges are finished, moreover if the charge was declared also against him the unit can decide to fight also him if they didn't fight yet

Correct, unless the CHARACTER has a fight first ability, it does not attack until after all chargers and units with a Fight First ability.

what happens if a unit charges, piles in, fights, now there's the heroic intervention, can it use the consolidate to "run away"? I think not because the consolidate must be toward the closest enemy, which will be the character?

Will never happen.

COUNTER OFFENSIVE?

After the first attacking and charging unit has fought, this stratagem allows the defender to pick a unit eligible for fighting and fight. Eligible means that, for whatever reason, it has an enemy model within 1'', for instance because of an heroic intervention or because the attacker moved with pile-ins and consolidate against other defending units

The stratagem is used after *any* enemy unit that charged fights, it does not have to be the first one. And yes, it must have an enemy model within 1".

Say that there are 2 charging units into 2 different defending units, no characters. The first charge goes off, pile in, fight (no consolidate yet). Now its the time for the stratagem but in this scenario: the initially charged unit will fight against the charger anyway later on, the other charged unit has no-one within 1'' because the other charger has still to charge and pile-in (is this right? I think so, but it's always confusing)

So basically the only scenario where the second charging unit gets beaten before fighting is that for whatever reason it was within 3'' of a defending character in its initial position (before even doing the charge move)

The basic useful scenario for this stratagem is that a single defending unit is charged by 2 attacking units, the stratagem allows the survivors of the first wave to fight the first attackers before the second wave comes in

Again, all charges are completed before you move on to fighting.

Thanks, so basically we had it wrong again..!! All charge movements are done one by one, then there is heroic intervention, then there is the first pile in..!! Also thanks for making clear the example of the character which always fights first, that is super interesting!

Longshadow7 wrote:So let me try to help you with this then. Just so you know, I do play competitively and this is something that has always had a little confusion in my group when 8th came out and whenever someone tries to get into our group. I will try to go with your points here in order.

GENERAL CONSENSUS SO FAR

1) A charging units can attack only units against which she declared the charge (we didn't find any exception yet, not in the stratagems not in the units, can you find an exception?)

You are correct, In a fight phase, the brb tells us that a unit that charges can only fight against whatever they declared charge against. Even Khorne Beserkers who can fight twice as two separate activations, can only fight what they declared in the charge phase. For Example, your charge phase and your Space Marine terminators charge my unit of cultists, and only cultists. They will be able to pile in, fight the cultists, and consolidate. If you then use a stratagem that allows you to fight again, you can only fight the one cultist unit you charged, making the stratagem useless if you happened to kill all of them already. You can pile in and consolidate into other units as long as your models each individually move so that they end closer to the nearest enemy model than they started. But if you did not declare these units as part of your charge, you still can take these moves to get to within 1", but then you will do nothing against them and suffer those units attacking back.


2) one by one the charging units are picked by the attacking player: the selected unit gets the overwatch if any, pile in, fight, consolidate (this was something we messed up, by making all pile-ins and all consolidate together, both the attacker and the defender, it was never really clear which units the defender could or could not fight with)

So not exactly like how you said. In the Charge phase, you the current turn player, decides which units of yours want to charge, and in what order. You do not have to declare them ahead of time like 7th edition! You will choose a unit, Space marine terminators, you choose their target or targets, my cultists. After you have finished declaring all of your one unit's charge targets, I can choose whether to fire overwatch or not with each unit individually. If a unit becomes engaged in melee, it can no longer fire overwatch! If you charge the same unit multiple times, and say your first charge failed to make it, your charge target for the next unit still can fire overwatch. After all of your charges are finished, and Heroic Interventions, I will talk about them later, you move to the Fight Phase. You, the current player will pick a unit you successfully charged with and perform the following in order; Pile in, Fight, Consolidate. That is a unit activation. You will move through all of your charging units until you come to Ongoing Combat. In this case, since you are the current player, you can choose which player will get to activate a unit first in Ongoing Combat at this point, alternating between the players one at a time.

3) after the charges are done, normal fights start, in particular the defender may have units which survived the charge or units that are now within 1'' because of pile-in and consolidation even if the charge was not declared against them.

Already outlined above ^

4) The defender and the attacker alternate fighting units (this can happen if the attacker had some units locked in previous fights, otherwise it's just the defender)

Outlined above ^, just remember you get to choose in ongoing combat which player activates first.

5) The process is the same for each selected unit: pile-in, fight, consolidate

This is correct.

Ok, now onto the thing that annoys a lot of people. Heroic Intervention.
You declare Heroic Intervention at the end of your opponent's charge phase. Any number of your CHARACTERS that are within 3" of an enemy unit at the end of your opponent's charge phase can declare a Heroic Intervention. Multiple characters can delcare this in the same phase, they just need to be within 3" of an enemy unit to do so. When you declare it, you can move your character up to three inches closer to the nearest enemy model, trying to get to within 1" of that enemy model. This is not a charge so they will fight in Ongoing Combat, also charging units can not attack your characters unless they were declared as charge targets. Now to the thing that is powerful about Heroic Intervention, Your characters do not need to be within 3" of an enemy charging unit to declare Heroic Intervention, they just need to be within 3" of an enemy unit. The other thing, even if your opponent does not charge, you can Heroic Intervention, beaucse all players move through al phases of a turn. (I will probably get backlash from that.)


Counter Offensive strategem.

1) After the first attacking and charging unit has fought, this stratagem allows the defender to pick a unit eligible for fighting and fight. Eligible means that, for whatever reason, it has an enemy model within 1'', for instance because of an heroic intervention or because the attacker moved with pile-ins and consolidate against other defending units

Yes you are essentially correct. After an enemy unit that has charged has fought... But you can delcare this strategem after any enemy charging unit, not just the first enemy charger.

2) Say that there are 2 charging units into 2 different defending units, no characters. The first charge goes off, pile in, fight (no consolidate yet). Now its the time for the stratagem but in this scenario: the initially charged unit will fight against the charger anyway later on, the other charged unit has no-one within 1'' because the other charger has still to charge and pile-in (is this right? I think so, but it's always confusing)

You wait until the first enemy unit in your scenario finished consolidation. Then you declare the use of your stratagem. You would do this to fight with your second unit before the second charger, because by default of the enemy completing a charge means that they are within a inch of you. So your second, or first if you want to, unit will pile in, fight, then consolidate.

3) So basically the only scenario where the second charging unit gets beaten before fighting is that for whatever reason it was within 3'' of a defending character in its initial position (before even doing the charge move)

No, outlined above^

4)The basic useful scenario for this stratagem is that a single defending unit is charged by 2 attacking units, the stratagem allows the survivors of the first wave to fight the first attackers before the second wave comes in

You can choose to fight the second unit before it strikes if you want, baring all previuosly mention restrictions above^

I hope this helps, and does not seem confusing. And please forgive spelling errors.

Thanks, this was very clear, you should probably apply to GW and write their 9th edition rule book....

Kommissar Kel wrote:HappyJew has an answer: "will never happen"; I would like to explain that as a "cannot happen", or, "no, because:"

If a Character performed a Heroic Intervention, they have generally become the nearest enemy model to the Consolidating unit(or, at least, some models within the consolidating unit); therefore the consolidating unit cannot move away from the Character enemy model.

Yes! Thanks!

Thanks. ai am glad it helped you.

 Findarfin wrote:
Thanks everyone! So I've an updated version which incorporates all your suggestions

OPEN QUESTIONS:
-in the normal fight phase (not charging units), is there any scenario where, thanks to the pile-in, the activated unit can touch some other unit, not the one which was fighting previously, and fight also that new unit?

Yes, that can happen. If a unit can fight twice (such as Bezerkers or through a stratagem), did not charge in the preceding charge phase, and begins a fight phase within 1" of an enemy unit, if they consolidate within 1" of a new enemy unit after their first fight they would then be able to fight that new unit in their second fight.

 Findarfin wrote:
Thanks everyone! So I've an updated version which incorporates all your suggestions


Updated stack:
1) charge movements and overwatch
a) the attacking player declares all the charges and does the charge movement for all the units (he can decide which one is charging in first for the purpose of overwatch)
b) the defending player fires overwatch, if a charging unit survives the overwatch, the defending unit can no longer fire overwatch
b) Heroic intervention, in this moment characters can move up to 3'' to become within 1'' of enemy models, this is not a charging move and must be done before pile-ins.

Incorrect. You do not declare all of your charges and then perform the movement. And Overwatch is performed before the movement occurs.

You pick a unit to charge with declare its target(s), then perform Overwatch and then make the charge move. Then you pick another unit to do the same, and so on. Once all units have completed their charge moves, the opposing player can perform Heroic Interventions.

 Findarfin wrote:
OPEN QUESTIONS:
-in the normal fight phase (not charging units), is there any scenario where, thanks to the pile-in, the activated unit can touch some other unit, not the one which was fighting previously, and fight also that new unit?

Yes. A unit can pile into any other unit and proceed to attack them in the same phase (with the caveat for charging units, of course).

A unit can also consolidate into another unit that was not previously involved in combat.

Small note. Target surviving overwatch doesn#t prevent overwatch. Target making to combat does so if you fail charge roll distance(either by rolling too low or taking models that were in range as overwatch casualties or overwatch causes closest modeis from target dying) then enemy will still be able to overwatch

Cheexsta wrote:

 Findarfin wrote:
Thanks everyone! So I've an updated version which incorporates all your suggestions


Updated stack:
1) charge movements and overwatch
a) the attacking player declares all the charges and does the charge movement for all the units (he can decide which one is charging in first for the purpose of overwatch)
b) the defending player fires overwatch, if a charging unit survives the overwatch, the defending unit can no longer fire overwatch
b) Heroic intervention, in this moment characters can move up to 3'' to become within 1'' of enemy models, this is not a charging move and must be done before pile-ins.

Incorrect. You do not declare all of your charges and then perform the movement. And Overwatch is performed before the movement occurs.

You pick a unit to charge with declare its target(s), then perform Overwatch and then make the charge move. Then you pick another unit to do the same, and so on. Once all units have completed their charge moves, the opposing player can perform Heroic Interventions.

 Findarfin wrote:
OPEN QUESTIONS:
-in the normal fight phase (not charging units), is there any scenario where, thanks to the pile-in, the activated unit can touch some other unit, not the one which was fighting previously, and fight also that new unit?

Yes. A unit can pile into any other unit and proceed to attack them in the same phase (with the caveat for charging units, of course).

A unit can also consolidate into another unit that was not previously involved in combat.

Thanks! I've update the top version with your corrections in green, now we have it clear! We'll try a first tournament in September, at least we'll know our rules right.

tneva82 wrote:Small note. Target surviving overwatch doesn#t prevent overwatch. Target making to combat does so if you fail charge roll distance(either by rolling too low or taking models that were in range as overwatch casualties or overwatch causes closest modeis from target dying) then enemy will still be able to overwatch

Definitely right, thanks! Added also this note, we always played like that but I didn't write it properly and the whole point was to write it properly!


Updated version:

Your 1.a seems incorrect or at least misleading. Keep in mind that you don't have to decide all charges up front. You declare one charge, and complete that charge (including overwatch, rolling, and moving) before you declare the next charge. So you aren't just deciding which one is first for overwatch purposes.

For example: I have a SM Chaplain, a squad of Assault Terminators, and Rhino all within 12" of a unit of Dark Reapers. I want to charge the Rhino in first to try to soak up the overwatch, then charge in both the Terminators and Chaplain afterwards, but let's see how it plays out.

Rhino declares a charge. Doesn't get destroyed by overwatch, so I roll the distance, and the charge fails.

OK, I can still get the Terminators and the Chaplain in, but I don't want to risk the Chaplain getting in alone, so I declare the Terminators next. They also fail the charge.

I now decide not to declare any more charges. Since each declaration is only done after overwatches and moves are complete, that's OK. I don't have to commit to charging all 3 up front, I can see how each one plays out before declaring the next one.

Medicinal Carrots wrote:
Your 1.a seems incorrect or at least misleading. Keep in mind that you don't have to decide all charges up front. You declare one charge, and complete that charge (including overwatch, rolling, and moving) before you declare the next charge. So you aren't just deciding which one is first for overwatch purposes.

For example: I have a SM Chaplain, a squad of Assault Terminators, and Rhino all within 12" of a unit of Dark Reapers. I want to charge the Rhino in first to try to soak up the overwatch, then charge in both the Terminators and Chaplain afterwards, but let's see how it plays out.

Rhino declares a charge. Doesn't get destroyed by overwatch, so I roll the distance, and the charge fails.

OK, I can still get the Terminators and the Chaplain in, but I don't want to risk the Chaplain getting in alone, so I declare the Terminators next. They also fail the charge.

I now decide not to declare any more charges. Since each declaration is only done after overwatches and moves are complete, that's OK. I don't have to commit to charging all 3 up front, I can see how each one plays out before declaring the next one.

Thanks! It was not written properly, now I've changed so it's clear that charge movements are done one by one and it is not necessary to declare all charging units upfront!

The tournament is in about 1 month.. this will come in handy, for the current list probably to defend against charges properly.


Updated first phase: