Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What on Earth is GW thinking when regular guardsman can take grenade launchers, but Scions can’t?

Do Scions come modeled with grenade launchers in their kit? If not, that's why.

 Elbows wrote:
Do Scions come modeled with grenade launchers in their kit? If not, that's why.

They do though.

 Apple Peel wrote:
What on Earth is GW thinking when regular guardsman can take grenade launchers, but Scions can’t?

Has to be an oversight. The whole shtick was "if it's in the kit, you can use it" - I wonder if more factions have similar issues?

it could be as simple as "we want to make sure there is a reason to take guards over scions"

BrianDavion wrote:
it could be as simple as "we want to make sure there is a reason to take guards over scions"

Didn’t they already do that with sniper rifles?

 Apple Peel wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
it could be as simple as "we want to make sure there is a reason to take guards over scions"

Didn’t they already do that with sniper rifles?

And being half the cost.

I have a feeling that GW maybe having to FAQ Killteam sooner than planned due to missing units and options

It's almost like they don't hire technical writers or proofreaders.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It's almost like they don't hire technical writers or proofreaders.

Yeah I think that's probably true.

 Larks wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
What on Earth is GW thinking when regular guardsman can take grenade launchers, but Scions can’t?

Has to be an oversight. The whole shtick was "if it's in the kit, you can use it" - I wonder if more factions have similar issues?

Well for IG alone

Sarge doesnt have option for bolter/lasgun (yes, kits have both these options, it's infuriating that an IG sarge has no ranged weapon we know full well he has no business being in combat)
No heavy flamer option
NO MEDIC
No camo cloak option (cadian command squad sniper is modeled with one)

Those are purely options that have models and are in kits that have to be used for an IG kill team.

Also technically speaking, the command squad box are veterans, they share the same profile and wargear options, so it's really inexcusable to say vets can't be in kill team because we "have no kit". That was the whole point of the command box, to give you bits to make your guardsmen look more elite and veteran. That would be like excluding the "special weapon gunners" because GW doesn't sell a specific special weapon squad box. Theyre guardsmen, just dudes with fancier guns that are already in kits sold by GW.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Well for IG alone

Sarge doesnt have option for bolter/lasgun (yes, kits have both these options, it's infuriating that an IG sarge has no ranged weapon we know full well he has no business being in combat)
No heavy flamer option
NO MEDIC
No camo cloak option (cadian command squad sniper is modeled with one)

Those are purely options that have models and are in kits that have to be used for an IG kill team.

Yep, I agree that all those are baffling omissions and should have been included.

Also technically speaking, the command squad box are veterans, they share the same profile and wargear options, so it's really inexcusable to say vets can't be in kill team because we "have no kit". That was the whole point of the command box, to give you bits to make your guardsmen look more elite and veteran. That would be like excluding the "special weapon gunners" because GW doesn't sell a specific special weapon squad box. Theyre guardsmen, just dudes with fancier guns that are already in kits sold by GW.

However, I don't agree with the veteran thing. In the Kill Team being a veteran is represented by having a specialisation.

Agreed on the Veteran thing. However, if GW were excluding thing because "they're not in the infantry box" or whatever, then plasma guns, melta guns, sniper rifles, power swords, and bolt pistols shouldn't be options.

I don't mind camo cloaks so much, but the rest should easily be options, especially Medic (although honestly, I feel everyone should have got every Specialist option).

 Crimson wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Well for IG alone

Sarge doesnt have option for bolter/lasgun (yes, kits have both these options, it's infuriating that an IG sarge has no ranged weapon we know full well he has no business being in combat)
No heavy flamer option
NO MEDIC
No camo cloak option (cadian command squad sniper is modeled with one)

Those are purely options that have models and are in kits that have to be used for an IG kill team.

Quoting for additional emphasis.

Just like Shadow war before it, GW made a bunch of somewhat arbitrary and confusing restrictions. Hopefully FAQs and future expansions change that.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Just like Shadow war before it, GW made a bunch of somewhat arbitrary and confusing restrictions. Hopefully FAQs and future expansions change that.

I really do wish there was more cheap wargear, if anything just help distinguish model from model.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Larks wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
What on Earth is GW thinking when regular guardsman can take grenade launchers, but Scions can’t?

Has to be an oversight. The whole shtick was "if it's in the kit, you can use it" - I wonder if more factions have similar issues?

Well for IG alone

Sarge doesnt have option for bolter/lasgun (yes, kits have both these options, it's infuriating that an IG sarge has no ranged weapon we know full well he has no business being in combat)

That's a bugbear for the main game though. And only the Catachan Command Squad has an option for boltguns on a Guardsman.

No heavy flamer option

Veterans only

NO MEDIC

Only an option in Command Squads for normal Guardsmen.

No camo cloak option (cadian command squad sniper is modeled with one)

Sadly no rules for them--remember that the metal Cadian Snipers are also still on sale, both heavily cloaked! Just no rules for camo cloaks in the Guard book.

Those are purely options that have models and are in kits that have to be used for an IG kill team.
Also technically speaking, the command squad box are veterans, they share the same profile and wargear options, so it's really inexcusable to say vets can't be in kill team because we "have no kit". That was the whole point of the command box, to give you bits to make your guardsmen look more elite and veteran. That would be like excluding the "special weapon gunners" because GW doesn't sell a specific special weapon squad box. Theyre guardsmen, just dudes with fancier guns that are already in kits sold by GW.

They might not sell a specific special weapon squad box, but they do sell the metal Meltagun/Plasmagun models still for Cadians--everything else is in the Command Squad or basic kit.

I think it's worth mentioning that there was a mention of Guard Veterans being the top contender for the next batch of stuff.

For the infantry squad, IG don't get a Heavy Weapon Team. So no heavy bolter, autocannon, morter, missile launcher, or las cannon.

 Mmmpi wrote:
For the infantry squad, IG don't get a Heavy Weapon Team. So no heavy bolter, autocannon, morter, missile launcher, or las cannon.

That however is understandable.

 Crimson wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
For the infantry squad, IG don't get a Heavy Weapon Team. So no heavy bolter, autocannon, morter, missile launcher, or las cannon.

That however is understandable.

Yet Eldar get grav-platforms for Guardians, Neophytes get their full array of weapons(including the Seismic Cannon, Heavy Stubber, and Mining Laser), Marines get their Heavy Weapons, and Tau Pathfinders get their Recon Drones and Fire Warriors get their Support Turrets.

It's not really understandable from a game mechanics POV, but it is a thing that happens...likely for some arcane reason that we are unfit to divine from the outside.
Remember that Guard Heavy Weapons Teams come in a separate box for the plastic kits. It's quite likely that if Guard had Heavy Stubbers and the like, those would be in.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Yet Eldar get grav-platforms for Guardians, Neophytes get their full array of weapons(including the Seismic Cannon, Heavy Stubber, and Mining Laser), Marines get their Heavy Weapons, and Tau Pathfinders get their Recon Drones and Fire Warriors get their Support Turrets.

It's not really understandable from a game mechanics POV, but it is a thing that happens...likely for some arcane reason that we are unfit to divine from the outside.
Remember that Guard Heavy Weapons Teams come in a separate box for the plastic kits. It's quite likely that if Guard had Heavy Stubbers and the like, those would be in.

I wish they could have heavy stubbers! But unlike all the other things you mention, the guard heavy weapons are two dudes on one huge base. They probably want to avoid that for this sort of skirmish game. Now, it would be cool if they were a fireteam of two individually based models, but they don't seem to want to make any modelling options that would differ from 40K.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
For the infantry squad, IG don't get a Heavy Weapon Team. So no heavy bolter, autocannon, morter, missile launcher, or las cannon.

That however is understandable.

Yet Eldar get grav-platforms for Guardians, Neophytes get their full array of weapons(including the Seismic Cannon, Heavy Stubber, and Mining Laser), Marines get their Heavy Weapons, and Tau Pathfinders get their Recon Drones and Fire Warriors get their Support Turrets.

It's not really understandable from a game mechanics POV, but it is a thing that happens...likely for some arcane reason that we are unfit to divine from the outside.
Remember that Guard Heavy Weapons Teams come in a separate box for the plastic kits. It's quite likely that if Guard had Heavy Stubbers and the like, those would be in.

Because every damn edition of killteam is ruined by IG heavy weapons teams. Which are static, not mobile, and broken as all gak.

Show me one edition where it didn't ruin the game. Thank GW for not allowing them in.

 sfshilo wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
For the infantry squad, IG don't get a Heavy Weapon Team. So no heavy bolter, autocannon, morter, missile launcher, or las cannon.

That however is understandable.

Yet Eldar get grav-platforms for Guardians, Neophytes get their full array of weapons(including the Seismic Cannon, Heavy Stubber, and Mining Laser), Marines get their Heavy Weapons, and Tau Pathfinders get their Recon Drones and Fire Warriors get their Support Turrets.

It's not really understandable from a game mechanics POV, but it is a thing that happens...likely for some arcane reason that we are unfit to divine from the outside.
Remember that Guard Heavy Weapons Teams come in a separate box for the plastic kits. It's quite likely that if Guard had Heavy Stubbers and the like, those would be in.

Because every damn edition of killteam is ruined by IG heavy weapons teams. Which are static, not mobile, and broken as all gak.

As opposed to Guardian Platforms, Support Turrets(which literally cannot move), or the way people will play Marines and Neophytes with heavy weapons...?

Show me one edition where it didn't ruin the game. Thank GW for not allowing them in.

Yeah, thanks for leaving in Guardian Platforms, Support Turrets, mini-Devastators, and Neophyte/Cultist Heavies!

I've played kill team games since 5th edition and don't ever recall heavy weapon teams ever being a problem?

W...when did IG heavy weapons teams become broken in Kill Team? Literally the first time ive ever heard that.

Heavy Weapon Team have only been "broken" in one edition that I recall, that being 8th, and having cheap Mortars (which are most useful because they are cheap Brigade fillers, not for their offensive output).

In Kill Team, this certainly wouldn't be an issue. In fact, the only issue I can find with HWTs in Kill Team would be the fact that they're armed with both the heavy weapon and lasgun, and the abstraction of multiple wounds. However, considering that many other factions can have heavy weapons (Space Marines, GSC, CSM, etc etc) and other factions also have multiple wounds (Primaris, Sicarans/Ruststalkers, Nobz), there's no real reason that HWTs shouldn't be an option.

I so dearly wish I could have a missile launcher or heavy bolter in my Tanith Kill Team.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Larks wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
What on Earth is GW thinking when regular guardsman can take grenade launchers, but Scions can’t?

Has to be an oversight. The whole shtick was "if it's in the kit, you can use it" - I wonder if more factions have similar issues?

Well for IG alone

Sarge doesnt have option for bolter/lasgun (yes, kits have both these options, it's infuriating that an IG sarge has no ranged weapon we know full well he has no business being in combat)
No heavy flamer option
NO MEDIC
No camo cloak option (cadian command squad sniper is modeled with one)

Those are purely options that have models and are in kits that have to be used for an IG kill team.

Also technically speaking, the command squad box are veterans, they share the same profile and wargear options, so it's really inexcusable to say vets can't be in kill team because we "have no kit". That was the whole point of the command box, to give you bits to make your guardsmen look more elite and veteran. That would be like excluding the "special weapon gunners" because GW doesn't sell a specific special weapon squad box. Theyre guardsmen, just dudes with fancier guns that are already in kits sold by GW.

Other than boltgun for sergeants Infantry squads don't get any of those options in 40K so why would they in kill team?

And veterans do not have the same profile and wargear options as guardsmen


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Heavy Weapon Team have only been "broken" in one edition that I recall, that being 8th, and having cheap Mortars (which are most useful because they are cheap Brigade fillers, not for their offensive output).

In Kill Team, this certainly wouldn't be an issue. In fact, the only issue I can find with HWTs in Kill Team would be the fact that they're armed with both the heavy weapon and lasgun, and the abstraction of multiple wounds. However, considering that many other factions can have heavy weapons (Space Marines, GSC, CSM, etc etc) and other factions also have multiple wounds (Primaris, Sicarans/Ruststalkers, Nobz), there's no real reason that HWTs shouldn't be an option.

I so dearly wish I could have a missile launcher or heavy bolter in my Tanith Kill Team.

The other issue is that if you're using sufficiently dense terrain then they have a massive problem moving around. Even a 40mm base can be a liability.

 sfshilo wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
For the infantry squad, IG don't get a Heavy Weapon Team. So no heavy bolter, autocannon, morter, missile launcher, or las cannon.

That however is understandable.

Yet Eldar get grav-platforms for Guardians, Neophytes get their full array of weapons(including the Seismic Cannon, Heavy Stubber, and Mining Laser), Marines get their Heavy Weapons, and Tau Pathfinders get their Recon Drones and Fire Warriors get their Support Turrets.

It's not really understandable from a game mechanics POV, but it is a thing that happens...likely for some arcane reason that we are unfit to divine from the outside.
Remember that Guard Heavy Weapons Teams come in a separate box for the plastic kits. It's quite likely that if Guard had Heavy Stubbers and the like, those would be in.

Because every damn edition of killteam is ruined by IG heavy weapons teams. Which are static, not mobile, and broken as all gak.

Show me one edition where it didn't ruin the game. Thank GW for not allowing them in.

At no point were HWT's broken, or ruin the game. Even in 8th, they tend to die rather easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Scott

The other issue is that if you're using sufficiently dense terrain then they have a massive problem moving around. Even a 40mm base can be a liability.

That seems like an issue to be balanced in list building rather then by fiat. Even if it only has a few places to go, having an area denial weapon is useful.