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Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




Leicester

Got a question in regards to black legion daemon princes. If a chaos lore of a black legion warband ascends will they still followers of other gods but their patrons in their warband?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Potentially, but unlikely, unless there's a mutual goal or a charismatic daemon prince.

Some chaos gods are rivals of others (eg: Khorne dislikes Slaanesh). Slaanesh noise marines are usually disliked by all other marines.

Also... to become a demon prince, you need to have gained the favour of a single god. If I remember rightly... Belakor was the last (and only) daemon prince to be ascended to daemonhood with the favour of all the gods... but apparently he betrayed one or more of them. So they're less inclined to do that

Finally, even though followers of some gods might not get along with each other, then can be inspired (or terrified enough) to follow a certain warlord... rather than just their own personal beliefs in their god. I can also see a lot of them going along with each other as they have mutual goals... eg: Khorne wants blood spilt, Slaanesh likes the experience, whilst Nurgle gets to resurrect the corpses and Tzeentch thinks it's part of its grand plan.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/06 13:07:18


 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Watch Fortress Excalibris

If you're a Black Legion daemon prince, then you're still ultimately working for Abaddon. And I don't think Abaddon would allow even a DP to put devotion to his/her chosen divine patron above the needs of the Long War against the Imperium. So I don't see him looking too favourably on a newly ascended DP of, say, Khorne, kicking all the followers of Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle out of his warband.

However, it's probably pretty rare for anyone to ascend while leading a very religiously diverse warband. A lord of Khorne with a Tzeentchian sorcerer advisor and a bunch of plague and noise marines in his warband probably isn't devoted strongly enough to Khorne to be rewarded with daemonhood anyway.

The obvious implication of all this is that the Black Legion probably has very few daemon princes compared to the monogod legions. Under Abaddon's direction, the BL tend to view the Chaos Gods as useful allies or as a means to an end rather than as supreme beings to devote one's soul to. And that attitude is sort of antithetical to becoming a DP.

A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

TarkinLarson wrote:
Potentially, but unlikely, unless there's a mutual goal or a charismatic daemon prince.

Some chaos gods are rivals of others (eg: Khorne dislikes Slaanesh). Slaanesh noise marines are usually disliked by all other marines.

Also... to become a demon prince, you need to have gained the favour of a single god. If I remember rightly... Belakor was the last (and only) daemon prince to be ascended to daemonhood with the favour of all the gods... but apparently he betrayed one or more of them. So they're less inclined to do that

Finally, even though followers of some gods might not get along with each other, then can be inspired (or terrified enough) to follow a certain warlord... rather than just their own personal beliefs in their god. I can also see a lot of them going along with each other as they have mutual goals... eg: Khorne wants blood spilt, Slaanesh likes the experience, whilst Nurgle gets to resurrect the corpses and Tzeentch thinks it's part of its grand plan.



Given that it was lorgar that ascended angron and fulgrim acended himself, I think it’s just a case of enough of the right power and you can ascend, we also have the issue that both lorgar and peturabo are undivided deamon primarchs.

When it comes to belakor... well it doesn’t gel with established background, he may just be the only deamon they made a deamon prince of undivided.

They really do need to clarify peturabo and lorgar though.


And before anyone says it, no I don’t think khorne and slaanesh acended angron and Fulgrim, all the leg work was done by lorgar and Fulgrim respectively, the gods just finished the job they had already done.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





From what I've read (and I've not read the HH books where the ascend yet) it does appear asthough they did a lot of work themselves..

Maybe in the context of the OPs post... if someone powerful and dedicated enough can manipulate the warp (either being supported by a god or not) they can become empowered by it. Maybe that could be the plot device required and other cult marines will follow them regardless of their dedication.

The codex does show that cult marines do exist, but gives little information about the warband leaders. That could lie in other resources I've not read.

 
   
Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




Leicester

Thanks guys
I can definately see this daemon prince still be loyal to the long war (he maybe slaaneshi but what better way to further slaanesh's own goals than following abbadons plan) and he does have a kind of unusual back story. Former ultramarines captain during the legion days who after the events of calth slowly becomes disillusioned with the emporer and his ptimarch leading to him intending to prove he's better than the rest of his fellow captains which slowly over time leads to him being corrupted by slaanesh. After being over looked for the honor of chapter master of a successor chapter by his primarch he takes those who among his company he has successfully turned to slaanesh and under the guise of going to fight the first black crusade takes a ship. On the way he successfully makes contact with abbadon anf him bending his knee joining the black legion. After the events of the first black crusade and having impressed abbadon with his actions on cadia he is granted his own warband with the survivors of his ultramarine followers becoming his core veterans. Slowly over time this warband grows until it resembles a chapter. The warband is mostly chaos undivided but has a equal split between followers of the 4 gods. He has 6 main lieutenants in terms of command a lord of khorne who leads the khornate marines into battle a sorceror of tzeench who simply considers himself to be the high sorceror of tzeench a lord of Nurgle and a undivided sorceror warp smith and dark apostle. the warband is split into companies following a similar structure to the codex but with a few deviations. The first being each company is brought together by their alliegance (undivided khorne tzeench Nurgle slaanesh) with the majority of the legion being undivided. Each of the god specific co.companies has a core of chaos space marines Havocs and bikers with dedicated squads of cult tropps. Each of the 4 god specific champions of the warband including the daemon prince has a dedicated body guard of chosen, terminators and possessed.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

If he was around in the heresy he’d be a thousand years old by the time of the first black crusade, can I suggest possibly making him a black shield at the end of the heresy, so basically exactly as you have said but he leaves while everything is still massively chaotic (not chaos to be specific).

Plus it would gel with the “every legion had traitors” thing.
   
Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




Leicester

 Formosa wrote:
If he was around in the heresy he’d be a thousand years old by the time of the first black crusade, can I suggest possibly making him a black shield at the end of the heresy, so basically exactly as you have said but he leaves while everything is still massively chaotic (not chaos to be specific).

Plus it would gel with the “every legion had traitors” thing.

I thought the first crusade was only a few hindred years after the heresy? The black shield thing may make even more sense. Would also present a interesting way for slaanesh to get its claws into him. Actually that presents a interesting idea. Him and his fellow let down ultramarine brothers becoming black shields after blaming their primarch for calth and what the word bearers did to ultramar. He and his brothers side with Horus in return for Horus agreeing to help them get revenge on the word bearers in the aftermath of the heresy. Could actually have them join the black legion earlier that way with them joining a few years after the events of talon.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
If he was around in the heresy he’d be a thousand years old by the time of the first black crusade, can I suggest possibly making him a black shield at the end of the heresy, so basically exactly as you have said but he leaves while everything is still massively chaotic (not chaos to be specific).

Plus it would gel with the “every legion had traitors” thing.

I thought the first crusade was only a few hindred years after the heresy? The black shield thing may make even more sense. Would also present a interesting way for slaanesh to get its claws into him. Actually that presents a interesting idea. Him and his fellow let down ultramarine brothers becoming black shields after blaming their primarch for calth and what the word bearers did to ultramar. He and his brothers side with Horus in return for Horus agreeing to help them get revenge on the word bearers in the aftermath of the heresy. Could actually have them join the black legion earlier that way with them joining a few years after the events of talon.


1st black crusade was 781.M31

Great crusade was 798.M30

I had to check the dates as I was only going off Talon of Horus where they said sigismund had been waiting a thousand years, but yep it checks out.

And I quite like your idea of them somehow blaming Guilliman, almost like they are suffering from severe mental trauma and are projecting there own failure onto him.

Have you started making the models yet by chance?
   
Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




Leicester

 Formosa wrote:
Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
If he was around in the heresy he’d be a thousand years old by the time of the first black crusade, can I suggest possibly making him a black shield at the end of the heresy, so basically exactly as you have said but he leaves while everything is still massively chaotic (not chaos to be specific).

Plus it would gel with the “every legion had traitors” thing.

I thought the first crusade was only a few hindred years after the heresy? The black shield thing may make even more sense. Would also present a interesting way for slaanesh to get its claws into him. Actually that presents a interesting idea. Him and his fellow let down ultramarine brothers becoming black shields after blaming their primarch for calth and what the word bearers did to ultramar. He and his brothers side with Horus in return for Horus agreeing to help them get revenge on the word bearers in the aftermath of the heresy. Could actually have them join the black legion earlier that way with them joining a few years after the events of talon.


1st black crusade was 781.M31

Great crusade was 798.M30

I had to check the dates as I was only going off Talon of Horus where they said sigismund had been waiting a thousand years, but yep it checks out.

And I quite like your idea of them somehow blaming Guilliman, almost like they are suffering from severe mental trauma and are projecting there own failure onto him.

Have you started making the models yet by chance?

Not yet no
For the daemon prince im probably going to use the stock plastic kit with maybe a but or 2 stolen from guilliman. For his body guard in the currently time line which WOF be possessed i may get some gal vorbak and replace the word bearers symbols with black legion ones) terminators (i plan to mix cataphracti with chaos terminator and chaos knight bits for there) and chosen (waiting on a actual chosen kit to come out.
   
 
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