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Made in gr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




Hello all!
A lot of people seem to have given our new GW game a warm welcome, and since i always had a soft spot for kill team i am quite happy.
Still, many threads about the tactics of various factions and no space marines :(

What are your thoughts about adeptus astartes kill team composition?
Is a varied approach (tacs, scouts and primaris together) better or to stick with mono-tacs. mono primaris etc.?
Which seem to be the better weapons and specialisms? Also, better off shooting or closing the gap and charge?


I had a first draft of a tac kill team in mind, but not played yet:

Tac sgt with chainsword and auspex
Tac gunner with heavy bolter
Tac marine
Tac marine
Scout with sniper rifle, camo cloak
Intercessor sgt with chainsword
Reiver sgt with combat knife and grapnel launcher


Sniper and heavy bolter provide long range, the sgts are more cc oriented and the tac marines are.. well tactical
What do you think?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




This is my assessment of the space Marines:

1. Their ability to bring 4 sargs makes them pretty good at melee.
2. Scout gunner with missile launcher, camo cloak and <sniper> seems pretty scary and durable.
3. Intercessors are very durable for only a few points more than a bolter tac, and have a better gun. This means the only real reason to take tacs is the special and heavy weapons, and the auspex.
4. Reivers are pretty scary in close combat.
5. Sniper scouts are durable and dangerous. Bolter scouts are cheap but somewhat lackluster.

For my first try at a general list, I'd do something like this:

Scout gunner, ML, camo 17 Sniper
Tac sarg, auspex, plasma pistol 15 Comms
Intercessor sarg, power sword 18 Leader
Tactical gunner, heavy bolter 16 Heavy
Intercessor gunner, grenade launcher 16
Intercessor gunner, grenade launcher 16
98 points

Depending on the matchup, I think three sniper scouts could replace the two intercessor gunners. The rest seems pretty solid to me though. You could also go more melee oriented with reivers.

The nice thing about Marines is that they can pretty much do anything. In ranked play, you can have a pretty wide variety of options in your 20 available models.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






The most AP you have in your list is -1 with the heavy bolter. Honestly that sounds terrible.

Here's what I run:

Black Templar kill team:

Scout gunner HB: Heavy Specialist
Intercessor Sgt w/ Power sword: Zealot Specialist
Tac Gunner w/ Flamer: Demo Specialist
Tac Marine
Tac Marine
Scout w/ bolter
Sword Brother (Tac Sgt) w/ Combi Plasma, Chainsword: Leader

That comes out to 100.

IDK maybe snipers are overpower in this game and I just don't know about it yet? Or is AP useless in this game like it is in 40k now that invulns are everywhere?
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





I've played some games of KT and with space marines.

Here's my few thoughts after some games. I've played against Tau, Nidz, chaos and DG.

It's very hard to wound with one shot sniper rifle. I've had from 0-2 snipers in my KT, making a scout sgt your leader felt the best way to bring it, but I think I haven't scored a single 6 on wound rolls or managed to wound any models with the sniper rifle. Leader in the front-line has felt a stupid idea almost every time, if you want to take juice out of it, you need to enter melee and when it dies, it's 1 CP / turn for you. That's why a shooty 2W primaris or that scout sergeant with rifle and camo cloak feels a good option, when it forces you to play from distance.

Btw, marines can't get zealot. I've run my combat specialist as intercessor sergeant with power sword and variety of bolt rifles, stock feels best at this point.

In my last game I had my sniper specialist a heavy bolter scout to get rerolls to ones and use the +1 to hit stratagem. I changed to scout from tactical marine, because it's just cheaper.

Missile launcher is quite expensive add-on, but making it your heavy specialist you can shoot two shots with your krakk missiles with only 1 CP. Atleast that's how we interpreted the level 1 stratagem from heavies. Also heavy specialist ignores the "heavy -1 to hit penalty from moving).

In this game all modifiers basically affect to hit rolls and you wil get several negatives on it during the game. Keep that in mind.

What models I would recommend to take are: the above mentioned primaris sergeant combat specialist with power sword and an intercessor gunner with aux grenade launcher and stalker bolt rifle.

Today's list was:

Leader - tac sergeant with power sword and plasma pistol - (mediocre)
Heavy - scout with missile launcher (more testing needed if 4+ sv is enough)
Combat - Intercessor sergeant with power sword and bolt rifle (4 attacks with power sword and 2 wounds, goodie)
Sniper - scout with heavy bolter (needs more testing)
Intercessor gunner with stalker bolt rifle and aux. grenade launcher (30" grenade without penalty from over half range is nice)
tactical marine with flamer (auto hit and volume of dice is nice, get my shy approval.)

Have to say that man death guard with their T5 3+ sv and 5+ disgustingly resilient rolls are pain in my boot when companied with ~6-9 poxwalkers.

Here's my twenty cents.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/05 17:16:52


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The missile launcher has AP, and should kill pretty much anything it hits with the comms and auspex buffs. There are probably some situations where you'd want double heavy bolters, though.

It matched play it's probably also worth it to have some stock intercessors for some additional AP1 if you run into a lot of Marines or something, but lots of factions don't have a ton of armor, and cover doesn't improve armor saves in kill team.

Sniper rifles seem okay to me because they hit on 3s and the mortal wound crit is pretty good, and the model is cheap.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




scout gunners can both take a HB or missile launcher, giving you the option of 3 heavy weapons and one special weapon with max gunners
   
Made in ca
Ship's Officer



London

You obviously can't use the heavy stratagem to fire 2 krak missiles. It very clearly says it doesn't work if you'd normally only fire one shot. I think you can use it to fire two frag missiles though - as D6 =/= 1... usually.

I think that bolt rifle intercessors look like great models in kill team. I agree with most people that the standard bolt rifle looks best, as that option to push your half range band out 3" should mean you can get 2 shots and no hit penalty a lot, while only receiving 1 shot at -1 to hit in return.

For 16 points a gunner with grenade launcher is really good. You can make those frag grenades wound concealed targets really easily, and as a grenade weapon it doesn't get penalties to hit at long range, or for moving. I'd take two, making one a demolitions specialist and the other a sniper. A third guy should be a comms specialist I think.

I'm not 100% sure what the best specialists are. Leader and demolitions seem more or less mandatory. I think Comms is good, though its stratagem doesn't seem brilliant for marines. Making a Primaris Sergeant with power sword a combat specialist seems interesting, though it then means you need someone else to be your leader.

Scout and veteran are ok, but probably not required. It's a shame that Grapnel launchers only work with normal moves, so it doesn't combo with a scout's speedy advancing - though it does work if you just add 2" to their move with the stratagem and with a veteran's pre-game move.

I'm not sure whether stalker rifles are a good idea. I mostly prefer the standard rifle, though the stratagem is quite good. It's arguably a good option to twin with a grenade launcher, because you can then fire that if you move. I'd consider giving my sniper specialist a stalker/grenade launcher and my demolitions guy a standard bolt rifle/grenade launcher. I don't see myself taking an auto rifle at all, except maybe if I went for that sergeant combat specialist, letting him shoot a bit as he got into position. The standard rifle seems best in 90% of situations.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




AP isn't as necessary because cover (which is super prevalent in KT) doesn't provide that +1 to the save. Its still nice to have around though. Also, make sure your using your grenade every turn that you can. Seriously, having a free Str 6 -1 d3 damage is super useful, especially for those multi-wound models. Even better VS Thousand Sons.

I don't run intercessors because I don't have them, but they seem pretty potent in KT as some solid meat to put in front of your heavy hitters.
   
Made in fi
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon




Finland

The heavy tactic would not let you fire two frag missiles, but D6+1 shots on a frag missile. And certainly not two krak missile shots, as mentioned.

7000+
3500
2000 
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





 Weazel wrote:
The heavy tactic would not let you fire two frag missiles, but D6+1 shots on a frag missile. And certainly not two krak missile shots, as mentioned.


My bad, have used the strat with heavy bolter and blight launcher (DG) mostly anyways.

Btw, what are your thoughts with a tac sgt leader with auspex and grav pistol. Modeling an auspex model and thinking which pistol to go with. Wondering if grav pistol actually has it's place as last protection.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

An auspex is great. Annoying that it’s not an option for intercessors - I’ve got an intercessor with one. He’s out of the first strike box, which is a great way to get a primaris kill team.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/07 05:09:43


 
   
Made in fi
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon




Finland

Thinking of running a Reiver list with 5 Reivers (inc sarge) and a Sniper Scout as Leader. However I'm not quite sure how to kit the Reivers. Grappling hooks are pretty much a no-brainer but Grav Chutes seem pretty situational, so I'm looking to save points by ditching them.

However should I just put carbines on all of them or keep the sarge and maybe another guy with a knife and pistol? The pistol is the only source of -AP in the list which is probably the biggest weakness of the list overall. But the guys are mobile AF and pretty durable with 2 wounds each.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/08 05:52:31


7000+
3500
2000 
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer



London

I think it might make sense to bring both an intercessor and Reiver sergeant. Both are worth a lot more than 1 point more than the standard guys I think.

And it also seems to make sense to bring a guy with auxiliary grenade launcher, because they’re great.

So I guess my point is that I’d probably mix reivers and intercessors. I’m not sure what the best mix is, but the two sergeants and grenade guy seem pretty good.
   
Made in fi
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon




Finland

Mandragola wrote:
I think it might make sense to bring both an intercessor and Reiver sergeant. Both are worth a lot more than 1 point more than the standard guys I think.

And it also seems to make sense to bring a guy with auxiliary grenade launcher, because they’re great.

So I guess my point is that I’d probably mix reivers and intercessors. I’m not sure what the best mix is, but the two sergeants and grenade guy seem pretty good.


Okay sure, but for this discussion can we focus on Reiver loadout? I don't have any Intercessors and I'm not probably going to purchase any since I have a lot of other KT ideas brewing up. So do I bring knives to a gunfight or nay? And Grav Chutes, yay or nay?

7000+
3500
2000 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced Inquisitorial Acolyte



Seattle, WA

The Sarge should have a knife and carbine, that's optimized and the cheapest loadout. Grapnel Launchers are quite valuable for traversing Kill Team's terrain, but the Grav Chutes don't seem to add as much versatility. I'd pass on those. As to standard reiver loadout, both are good. It depends on what you want that particular marine to do.

 
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer



London

I think you should probably bring guns on most guys, but it’s quite a tough call. The extra range of carbines probably means you’ll get more attacks over the course of a game with guns than swords. But you might want a scout, veteran or combat specialist designed to go forward, who might want a sword. Actually the scout probably wants a carbine, so he can shoot as he runs around.

You can probably treat upgrades like grappling hooks on a case by case basis. Not everyone needs everything. Maybe take a couple of guys who aren’t specialists and give them just carbines. Chutes are more valuable to guys who have grapples, because they’re the ones likely to be up high in the first place.
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





I'm scheduling a newbie test event this friday with DG, Nids and two SM armies.

My experience is that our most auto-include unit is the combat specialist intercessor sergeant with a power sword. I don't see a point to give reiver sergeant the specialism when you can have a power sword.

Also not tested, but on paper what feels good is our tactical marine gunner with a flamer as demolitions specialist. +1 to wound if target is obscured and you can boost it with the stratagem. So even if it's S4, it'll wound stuff on 2+ if you want. Not the DG version of the super flamer, but not bad either. My SM lists one has a flamer demolitioner and second has a demolitions specialist with heavy bolter.

My lists are for the newbies as followed:

Blood Angels

Leader: Scout sergeant with sniper and camo cloak
Demolitions: tactical marine gunner with heavy bolter
Sniper: tactical marine sergeant with combi-plasma
Combat: Intercessor sergeant with power sword and bolt rifle
Intercessor gunner with stalker bolt rifle and auxiliary grenade launcher
Reiver sergeant with combat knife, heavy bolt pistol, grav chutes and grapnel launcher

Dark Angels

Leader: Tactical sergeant with auspex and grav pistol
Combat: Intercessor sergeant with power sword and bolt rifle
Demolitions: Tactical marine gunner with flamer
Heavy: Tactical marine gunner with heavy bolter
Reiver sergeant with combat knife, heavy bolt pistol, grav chutes and grapnel launcher
Intercessor gunner with stalker bolt rifle and auxiliary grenade launcher




   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




What happens when a space marine fireteam levels up and get the “courageous” skill? It does exactly the same as TSKNF, so it is unusable.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Remember, it is trivial to get a missile launcher to hit on twos, refilling ones with no cp investments
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




Guess the only thing to do is erase the fireteam and get a new one, hoping not to roll the “courageous” skill when it level up.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Been playing some games with the following:

Intercessor x2 w/ bolt rifles
Intercessor Gunner w/ Sniper spec and stalker
Intercessor Gunner w/ Demo spec
Intercessor sarge w/ PS and bolt rifle and Combat spec
Reiver Sarge w/ rifle and blade and leader spec

My thoughts:
The space marine strats are insanely good. The fact that the Reiver Sarge can charge a flamer and throw his shock grenade first is amazing (flying into combat with frag cannons). The intercessor stalker +1 to hit and +1 to wound for 1 cp is amazing (2+ to hit rr 1, 2+ to W vs. T3).

Anything that gets charged by either sarge gets instantly injured from weight of attacks (especially the intercessor sarge). Having 2 wounds and having transhuman phys makes you VERY tanky.

Krak grenades at 30" range DO WORK. When I get the grenade cache, I basically instantly win.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




missile launchers are the way I feel. Scouts with camo cloaks and missile launchers with an auspex and comms near them. Two scout missile launcher. One tactical heavy bolter. One flamer/plasma then tac sarge with auspex and scout sarge and a final scout to chump block.

You are regularly hitting with a missile launcher on twos rerolling ones, which is good, but then you have so many ways to mitigate damage so that return fire cannot take out your launchers.
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer



London

urzaplanewalker wrote:
Been playing some games with the following:

Intercessor x2 w/ bolt rifles
Intercessor Gunner w/ Sniper spec and stalker
Intercessor Gunner w/ Demo spec
Intercessor sarge w/ PS and bolt rifle and Combat spec
Reiver Sarge w/ rifle and blade and leader spec

My thoughts:
The space marine strats are insanely good. The fact that the Reiver Sarge can charge a flamer and throw his shock grenade first is amazing (flying into combat with frag cannons). The intercessor stalker +1 to hit and +1 to wound for 1 cp is amazing (2+ to hit rr 1, 2+ to W vs. T3).

Anything that gets charged by either sarge gets instantly injured from weight of attacks (especially the intercessor sarge). Having 2 wounds and having transhuman phys makes you VERY tanky.

Krak grenades at 30" range DO WORK. When I get the grenade cache, I basically instantly win.

That’s pretty much exactly the list I drew up. Only thing I’d change is to add an auspex, if you were allowed to. And maybe I’d run a comms spec guy instead of a sniper - I’m not sure.

The alternative option I comsidered was to have a 5 man intercessor squad and a couple of scouts with bolters. Having 7 guys would give you a few advantages over a squad of 6.
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






Of course there's a marine tactica. Man, I have no idea why I even post threads haha.

Anyway, why are people arming 2 people with Auxiliary Grenade Launchers? They can't both shoot it in the same turn. Or is it because they're so cheap and you may as well take another as a backup?
   
Made in gr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




Versatility and weapon survivability i guess?
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




It is really cheap, and sometimes only 1 of them can see an enemy. Also, 1 can get punked by a missile right away. The sniper is better against units out of cover and the demo is better when in they are in cover.
   
Made in gr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




So, i have settled on the following SM killteam:


Scout sgt with sniper rifle and camo cloak
Tac sgt with combi-plasma
Tac gunner with heavy bolter
Intercessor sgt with bolt rifle and power sword
Intercessor gunner with stalker bolt rifle and auxilliary grenade launcher
Reiver sgt with bolt carbine, combat knife, grapnel launcher and grav shute.

It comes down to 99 pts. I do not believe grav shute to be much use but i can't see any other options to spend my last 2 pts (any suggestions are most welcome).

Concerning specialisms, i consider giving:
leader to the scout sgt (hoping for him to be as much away from trouble as possible and securing the extra command point every round)
sniper to the combi-plasma sgt (re-roll 1s for safer charged shots),
combat to the intercessor with power sword (4 cc attacks)
and not sure what to give to the heavy bolter gunner... comms? heavy? demo? Which one do you think fits best?

Pls review and let me know what you think!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/12 01:15:59


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




again, you can get a missile launcher that hits on a 2 and rerolls ones, with no SP investment.

   
Made in gr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




Indeed that is a good suggestion if one goes the scout way.
Another problem that is potentially overlooked is that the tac sgt can not both a combi-weapon and an auspex, as it is currently written in the manual...

Also, i could drop the heavy bolter and the grav shute and get a missile launcher instead.
So the question is hb or ml? Which one do you think is best?
ML sure has versatility and range but the hellfire shell tactic with mortal wounds seems too good to pass...
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




spartiatis wrote:
Indeed that is a good suggestion if one goes the scout way.
Another problem that is potentially overlooked is that the tac sgt can not both a combi-weapon and an auspex, as it is currently written in the manual...

Also, i could drop the heavy bolter and the grav shute and get a missile launcher instead.
So the question is hb or ml? Which one do you think is best?
ML sure has versatility and range but the hellfire shell tactic with mortal wounds seems too good to pass...


Both.

You don't need a combi weapon. Ideally your sarge is never in LoS. He's there to buff your shooters with auspex and being your comms.

Primaris marines are being over emphasized. adding an extra wound doesn't help that much since you can easily deflect or take flesh wounds, You shouldn't have more than one or two bolters anyways.
   
 
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