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2018/08/05 21:21:13
Subject: Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Game wise I love that the Primarchs are coming back, however it hasn't done the lore any favours. I always liked the fact that the Primarchs where either dead gone or lost in the similar vein of the Emperors past been kept a secret. They've change the setting and after 20 odd years of the same story, which I agree its good for a change but after the Primarchs come back I hope they let another 5-10 years to develop the great crusade, I just hope that they haven't left a floodgate open where the lore severely suffers as some questions are best left unanswered. Like if they start bringing back Garviel Loken etc.
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2018/08/05 21:40:32
Subject: Halt on the lore changes
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Fixture of Dakka
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To me, it's a mixed bag. I actually really like the overall more hopeful tone that Roboute has created for the setting. I was getting sick of every narrative basically boiling down to, "Well, sure, you win the day, but it's ultimately pointless anyway." Exploring how the imperium interacts with a primarch after they've been away for so long is actually a neat plot hook. I'm just less fond of the primaris lore that came with him.
Allowing daemon primarchs to be out and about doing things just makes sense. If they're not "dead," then surely they should be utilizing those snazzy chaos powers of theirs.
You do lose a little of the mystique of having them all be distant, dead, or lost, but 40k has had decades to explore those angles. Plus, you can keep exploring them by simply setting your narrative prior to Guilliman being saved, the Khan /Vulkan returning, etc.
I'm ready for the story to advance, although I do hope they don't rush things.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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2018/08/05 22:42:58
Subject: Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Wyldhunt wrote:To me, it's a mixed bag. I actually really like the overall more hopeful tone that Roboute has created for the setting. I was getting sick of every narrative basically boiling down to, "Well, sure, you win the day, but it's ultimately pointless anyway." Exploring how the imperium interacts with a primarch after they've been away for so long is actually a neat plot hook. I'm just less fond of the primaris lore that came with him.
Allowing daemon primarchs to be out and about doing things just makes sense. If they're not "dead," then surely they should be utilizing those snazzy chaos powers of theirs.
You do lose a little of the mystique of having them all be distant, dead, or lost, but 40k has had decades to explore those angles. Plus, you can keep exploring them by simply setting your narrative prior to Guilliman being saved, the Khan /Vulkan returning, etc.
I'm ready for the story to advance, although I do hope they don't rush things.
I don't see the hope, just because Guilliman comes back I don't think he's going to do anything. The Imperium has the same resources as it did before the great rift, yeah Primaris are being made but that's a drop in the bucket. The eye has opened up all across the galaxy, Chaos can invade from any point it wan'ts now, they don't have to go through the webway or even worse the Cadian gate anymore, plus the Imperium is now cut off down the rift line. Its now worse than its ever been for the Imperium. I don't even think there is hope if the Emperor magically came back. Guilliman came back and so are the others coming back but Chaos has the Daemon Primarchs as well.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/05 22:43:59
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2018/08/05 22:53:41
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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I don't have a problem with Gulliman being returned, in a sense he's us. He knows plenty about the Horus Heresy and knows what humanity has lost, he wants to see the sensiable thing done and rails when the Imperium is stuck in it's ways...
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/05 23:10:43
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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BrianDavion wrote:I don't have a problem with Gulliman being returned, in a sense he's us. He knows plenty about the Horus Heresy and knows what humanity has lost, he wants to see the sensiable thing done and rails when the Imperium is stuck in it's ways...
I'm not saying Guilliman himself coming back is bad, I mean all the Primarchs.
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2018/08/05 23:32:34
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:I don't have a problem with Gulliman being returned, in a sense he's us. He knows plenty about the Horus Heresy and knows what humanity has lost, he wants to see the sensiable thing done and rails when the Imperium is stuck in it's ways...
I'm not saying Guilliman himself coming back is bad, I mean all the Primarchs.
other then Gulliman no one else has COME back, thing is most of the talk about others coming back is fan driven because Ultramarines get their primarch, people who play other chapters want their primarch too. totally fair desire
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/05 23:51:27
Subject: Halt on the lore changes
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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I’m kind of with Delvarus on this, back in the day black library had carte Blanche on what they could write with a couple of notable exceptions, no primarchs and no advancing the timeline, that’s well and truelly gone now.
Now we have had the primarchs back and a timeline advance, it basically means that anything can happen, the absurd to the awesome and everything in between.
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2018/08/06 00:45:28
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:I don't have a problem with Gulliman being returned, in a sense he's us. He knows plenty about the Horus Heresy and knows what humanity has lost, he wants to see the sensiable thing done and rails when the Imperium is stuck in it's ways...
I'm not saying Guilliman himself coming back is bad, I mean all the Primarchs.
other then Gulliman no one else has COME back, thing is most of the talk about others coming back is fan driven because Ultramarines get their primarch, people who play other chapters want their primarch too. totally fair desire
Pretty sure GW said they'd be coming back, even if they didn't its pretty obvious, they are bringing back the daemon primarchs, plus they kinda hinted at it with Russ talking to Grimnar in warzone Fenris. If Guilliman was the only loyalist Primarch to come back, I would only believe that if Matt Ward was in charge lol GW have no reason not to bring the others back, it'll sell models and they've already started doing it anyways so there not worried about the lore.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/06 00:47:58
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2018/08/06 00:53:20
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:I don't have a problem with Gulliman being returned, in a sense he's us. He knows plenty about the Horus Heresy and knows what humanity has lost, he wants to see the sensiable thing done and rails when the Imperium is stuck in it's ways...
I'm not saying Guilliman himself coming back is bad, I mean all the Primarchs.
other then Gulliman no one else has COME back, thing is most of the talk about others coming back is fan driven because Ultramarines get their primarch, people who play other chapters want their primarch too. totally fair desire
Pretty sure GW said they'd be coming back, even if they didn't its pretty obvious, they are bringing back the daemon primarchs, plus they kinda hinted at it with Russ talking to Grimnar in warzone Fenris. If Guilliman was the only loyalist Primarch to come back, I would only believe that if Matt Ward was in charge lol GW have no reason not to bring the others back, it'll sell models and they've already started doing it anyways so there not worried about the lore.
except if you only can bring back one primarch Gulliman makes sense because he's more then just a general.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/06 01:02:09
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Before 8th edition everyone wanted the story line moving forward. Now they want it leaving alone. Bringing back any of the primarchs isn’t changing any “lore”. It’s a new storyline in a time we haven’t been to before. It’s adding to the “lore”. And anyway the background changes all the time. In major ways. Just ask necrons fans. Roboute coming back hasn’t changed what happened in the past. He has always been in stasis and even healing about while in stasis. All the loyal primarchs have had a “could come back story” for a while. I for one would be happy to stick with 2nd edition fluff before blacklibrary made everyone take it too seriously.
[i use “lore” in “” as it is a silly term for the background to a huge open plan sandbox that is the 40k universe.]
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2018/08/06 01:06:11
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:I don't have a problem with Gulliman being returned, in a sense he's us. He knows plenty about the Horus Heresy and knows what humanity has lost, he wants to see the sensiable thing done and rails when the Imperium is stuck in it's ways...
I'm not saying Guilliman himself coming back is bad, I mean all the Primarchs.
other then Gulliman no one else has COME back, thing is most of the talk about others coming back is fan driven because Ultramarines get their primarch, people who play other chapters want their primarch too. totally fair desire
Pretty sure GW said they'd be coming back, even if they didn't its pretty obvious, they are bringing back the daemon primarchs, plus they kinda hinted at it with Russ talking to Grimnar in warzone Fenris. If Guilliman was the only loyalist Primarch to come back, I would only believe that if Matt Ward was in charge lol GW have no reason not to bring the others back, it'll sell models and they've already started doing it anyways so there not worried about the lore.
except if you only can bring back one primarch Gulliman makes sense because he's more then just a general.
Not really, any Primarch coming back would be better than none of them coming back and more interesting for the lore if they are just a general etc. Guilliman is too obvious, too perfect a chance for the Imperium in only him coming back. I just don't see GW only bringing back Guilliman, that makes no sense to me.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/06 01:07:27
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2018/08/06 01:18:03
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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They need to bring back the loyalists with questionable characters. Like the lion and Russ after having lived in the warp for a bit.
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2018/08/06 01:52:39
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Andykp wrote:They need to bring back the loyalists with questionable characters. Like the lion and Russ after having lived in the warp for a bit.
I doubt Russ has been turned just by being in the warp, the 13th survived in the warp for 10,000 years and they survived it due to the canis helix. The Lion isn't a heretic even though I like winding up DA's fans about him being one, He has done questionable things but there has been many books written from his perspective and he's obviously not a heretic. Would be really cool though if a loyalist did turn after all this time. If there was one it would have to be the Lion as they'd need an army which he would have the fallen, I doubt GW would make a whole loyalist army turn, maybe have would turn though and half would still be loyal, that would be cool. Should do a thread on who would people see turning traitor.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/06 01:54:41
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2018/08/06 01:54:28
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Andykp wrote:They need to bring back the loyalists with questionable characters. Like the lion and Russ after having lived in the warp for a bit.
eh I dunno, questionable characters could be dull in their own way, Gulliman is actually kinda intreasting from a "..... what the hell have you done to the IoM?" sort of way
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/06 01:55:35
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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BrianDavion wrote:Andykp wrote:They need to bring back the loyalists with questionable characters. Like the lion and Russ after having lived in the warp for a bit.
eh I dunno, questionable characters could be dull in their own way, Gulliman is actually kinda intreasting from a "..... what the hell have you done to the IoM?" sort of way
I think Guilliman is boring as hell, so predictable plus he's always been a boring character compared to the other Primarchs. He's the only one without having any interesting character flaws, Vulken would win second place even though I really like Vulken.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/06 01:57:20
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2018/08/06 02:01:37
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Andykp wrote:They need to bring back the loyalists with questionable characters. Like the lion and Russ after having lived in the warp for a bit.
eh I dunno, questionable characters could be dull in their own way, Gulliman is actually kinda intreasting from a "..... what the hell have you done to the IoM?" sort of way
I think Guilliman is boring as hell, so predictable plus he's always been a boring character compared to the other Primarchs. He's the only one without having any interesting character flaws, Vulken would win second place even though I really like Vulken.
He eaither has flaws or he doesn't stop contridicting yourself.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/06 02:02:12
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/06 02:31:33
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Andykp wrote:They need to bring back the loyalists with questionable characters. Like the lion and Russ after having lived in the warp for a bit.
eh I dunno, questionable characters could be dull in their own way, Gulliman is actually kinda intreasting from a "..... what the hell have you done to the IoM?" sort of way
I think Guilliman is boring as hell, so predictable plus he's always been a boring character compared to the other Primarchs. He's the only one without having any interesting character flaws, Vulken would win second place even though I really like Vulken.
He eaither has flaws or he doesn't stop contridicting yourself.
I mean flaws to his 'character', plus I said he has no interesting flaws, the only flaw he's ever shown is in being too rigid and dogmatic. I mean even Ultramarines players have to admit that, regardless of whether they like him or not.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/06 02:33:54
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2018/08/06 02:33:51
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Andykp wrote:They need to bring back the loyalists with questionable characters. Like the lion and Russ after having lived in the warp for a bit.
eh I dunno, questionable characters could be dull in their own way, Gulliman is actually kinda intreasting from a "..... what the hell have you done to the IoM?" sort of way
I think Guilliman is boring as hell, so predictable plus he's always been a boring character compared to the other Primarchs. He's the only one without having any interesting character flaws, Vulken would win second place even though I really like Vulken.
He eaither has flaws or he doesn't stop contridicting yourself.
I mean flaws as a 'character', plus I said he has no interesting flaws, the only flaw he's ever shown is in being too rigid and dogmatic.
Nah Dorn is the rigid and dogmatic one, Gulliman's biggest flaw is he tends to plan things out too much which makes him potentially predictable.
A flaw doesn't need to be a rediculas idiotic level one, some of the Primarchs suffer from a pretty bad case of flanderization. The primarchs who escaped that are not weak
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/06 02:35:34
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Andykp wrote:They need to bring back the loyalists with questionable characters. Like the lion and Russ after having lived in the warp for a bit.
eh I dunno, questionable characters could be dull in their own way, Gulliman is actually kinda intreasting from a "..... what the hell have you done to the IoM?" sort of way
I think Guilliman is boring as hell, so predictable plus he's always been a boring character compared to the other Primarchs. He's the only one without having any interesting character flaws, Vulken would win second place even though I really like Vulken.
He eaither has flaws or he doesn't stop contridicting yourself.
I mean flaws as a 'character', plus I said he has no interesting flaws, the only flaw he's ever shown is in being too rigid and dogmatic.
Nah Dorn is the rigid and dogmatic one, Gulliman's biggest flaw is he tends to plan things out too much which makes him potentially predictable.
A flaw doesn't need to be a rediculas idiotic level one, some of the Primarchs suffer from a pretty bad case of flanderization. The primarchs who escaped that are not weak
Dorn was rigid, but as in rigid and dogmatic I am talking about his envisioning of the codex. That is the only failing he had and was the only interesting thing about him. The only other time I can think of is when he ran away from Angron on his hands and knees, but I mean he was fighting Angron so who wouldn't do that lol
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/06 02:36:54
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2018/08/06 02:39:31
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Andykp wrote:They need to bring back the loyalists with questionable characters. Like the lion and Russ after having lived in the warp for a bit.
eh I dunno, questionable characters could be dull in their own way, Gulliman is actually kinda intreasting from a "..... what the hell have you done to the IoM?" sort of way
I think Guilliman is boring as hell, so predictable plus he's always been a boring character compared to the other Primarchs. He's the only one without having any interesting character flaws, Vulken would win second place even though I really like Vulken.
He eaither has flaws or he doesn't stop contridicting yourself.
I mean flaws as a 'character', plus I said he has no interesting flaws, the only flaw he's ever shown is in being too rigid and dogmatic.
Nah Dorn is the rigid and dogmatic one, Gulliman's biggest flaw is he tends to plan things out too much which makes him potentially predictable.
A flaw doesn't need to be a rediculas idiotic level one, some of the Primarchs suffer from a pretty bad case of flanderization. The primarchs who escaped that are not weak
Dorn was rigid, but as in rigid and dogmatic I am talking about his envisioning of the codex. That is the only failing he had and was the only interesting thing about him.
What failing is that? you mean when the people who followed him centuries after he was interred in statis became dogmatic about it?
the man's got plenty of faults they're just not (like the vast majoriuty of real peoples faults) blindingly crippling
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/06 02:41:00
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Andykp wrote:They need to bring back the loyalists with questionable characters. Like the lion and Russ after having lived in the warp for a bit.
eh I dunno, questionable characters could be dull in their own way, Gulliman is actually kinda intreasting from a "..... what the hell have you done to the IoM?" sort of way
I think Guilliman is boring as hell, so predictable plus he's always been a boring character compared to the other Primarchs. He's the only one without having any interesting character flaws, Vulken would win second place even though I really like Vulken.
He eaither has flaws or he doesn't stop contridicting yourself.
I mean flaws as a 'character', plus I said he has no interesting flaws, the only flaw he's ever shown is in being too rigid and dogmatic.
Nah Dorn is the rigid and dogmatic one, Gulliman's biggest flaw is he tends to plan things out too much which makes him potentially predictable.
A flaw doesn't need to be a rediculas idiotic level one, some of the Primarchs suffer from a pretty bad case of flanderization. The primarchs who escaped that are not weak
Dorn was rigid, but as in rigid and dogmatic I am talking about his envisioning of the codex. That is the only failing he had and was the only interesting thing about him.
What failing is that? you mean when the people who followed him centuries after he was interred in statis became dogmatic about it?
the man's got plenty of faults they're just not (like the vast majoriuty of real peoples faults) blindingly crippling
The codex failed, he originally thought it would be a be it and end all, designed to beat any tactical situation, he thought he could write a perfect book in what would win every war. He even admitted he failed. I'm not a Ultramarines hater, I think 30k they are pretty cool and I would probably end up collecting them at some point but the lore on them is terrible, they need to have some flaw or show that their 'perfectness' is a flaw rather than just being the poster boys. Matt Ward is really to blame and I'm not saying that just to bag on him for no reason. He did it with GK's and I collect them, they are also too perfect without any real flaws.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/08/06 02:57:34
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2018/08/06 04:04:07
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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*sighs* Jesus H fething Christ people need to stop seeing the codex as "tactics by numbers" thats not what the codex fething is, go read codex Space Mariens, not ONCE does it ever fething talk about the codex in such a way, rather it talks about the codex in terms of orginization. the codex is not "here is how you fight in this case" it's "This is how you orginize a space marine chapter, here is a selection of tactical reccomendations for it" there's no broad paint by numbers stragety, if there was the Ultramarines would not have been able to fight the Tyranids or the Necrons, or the Tau or the other countless other enemies that Gulliman wouldn't have been able to discuss because they wheren't fething in existance when the codex was written.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/06 04:32:18
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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BrianDavion wrote:*sighs* Jesus H fething Christ people need to stop seeing the codex as "tactics by numbers" thats not what the codex fething is, go read codex Space Mariens, not ONCE does it ever fething talk about the codex in such a way, rather it talks about the codex in terms of orginization. the codex is not "here is how you fight in this case" it's "This is how you orginize a space marine chapter, here is a selection of tactical reccomendations for it" there's no broad paint by numbers stragety, if there was the Ultramarines would not have been able to fight the Tyranids or the Necrons, or the Tau or the other countless other enemies that Gulliman wouldn't have been able to discuss because they wheren't fething in existance when the codex was written.
Read Age of Darkness (rules of engagement) that's exactly what Guilliman intended it for. The codex failed during the wargames and Guilliman admitted he had failed and that you could never codify all scenarios for warfare, so he just used it from that point on as a guideline. Why the hell are you so angry... Don't have the book with me, so I'll quote it tomorrow, but if you have the book its easy to find its the last few pages of the short story.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/06 04:33:41
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2018/08/06 04:40:02
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:*sighs* Jesus H fething Christ people need to stop seeing the codex as "tactics by numbers" thats not what the codex fething is, go read codex Space Mariens, not ONCE does it ever fething talk about the codex in such a way, rather it talks about the codex in terms of orginization. the codex is not "here is how you fight in this case" it's "This is how you orginize a space marine chapter, here is a selection of tactical reccomendations for it" there's no broad paint by numbers stragety, if there was the Ultramarines would not have been able to fight the Tyranids or the Necrons, or the Tau or the other countless other enemies that Gulliman wouldn't have been able to discuss because they wheren't fething in existance when the codex was written.
Read Age of Darkness (rules of engagement) that's exactly what Guilliman intended it for. The codex failed during the wargames and Guilliman admitted he had failed and that you could never codify all scenarios for warfare, so he just used it from that point on as a guideline. Why the hell are you so angry... Don't have the book with me, so I'll quote it tomorrow, but if you have the book its easy to find its the last few pages of the short story.
yes I read that story, except my take away was Gulliman tried an idea, it failed and he didn't keep doing it
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/06 04:45:04
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:*sighs* Jesus H fething Christ people need to stop seeing the codex as "tactics by numbers" thats not what the codex fething is, go read codex Space Mariens, not ONCE does it ever fething talk about the codex in such a way, rather it talks about the codex in terms of orginization. the codex is not "here is how you fight in this case" it's "This is how you orginize a space marine chapter, here is a selection of tactical reccomendations for it" there's no broad paint by numbers stragety, if there was the Ultramarines would not have been able to fight the Tyranids or the Necrons, or the Tau or the other countless other enemies that Gulliman wouldn't have been able to discuss because they wheren't fething in existance when the codex was written.
Read Age of Darkness (rules of engagement) that's exactly what Guilliman intended it for. The codex failed during the wargames and Guilliman admitted he had failed and that you could never codify all scenarios for warfare, so he just used it from that point on as a guideline. Why the hell are you so angry... Don't have the book with me, so I'll quote it tomorrow, but if you have the book its easy to find its the last few pages of the short story.
yes I read that story, except my take away was Gulliman tried an idea, it failed and he didn't keep doing it
Yea and the idea was to codify all possible outcomes for war, its explicitly said, there is no take away from it.
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2018/08/06 05:22:45
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:BrianDavion wrote:*sighs* Jesus H fething Christ people need to stop seeing the codex as "tactics by numbers" thats not what the codex fething is, go read codex Space Mariens, not ONCE does it ever fething talk about the codex in such a way, rather it talks about the codex in terms of orginization. the codex is not "here is how you fight in this case" it's "This is how you orginize a space marine chapter, here is a selection of tactical reccomendations for it" there's no broad paint by numbers stragety, if there was the Ultramarines would not have been able to fight the Tyranids or the Necrons, or the Tau or the other countless other enemies that Gulliman wouldn't have been able to discuss because they wheren't fething in existance when the codex was written.
Read Age of Darkness (rules of engagement) that's exactly what Guilliman intended it for. The codex failed during the wargames and Guilliman admitted he had failed and that you could never codify all scenarios for warfare, so he just used it from that point on as a guideline. Why the hell are you so angry... Don't have the book with me, so I'll quote it tomorrow, but if you have the book its easy to find its the last few pages of the short story.
yes I read that story, except my take away was Gulliman tried an idea, it failed and he didn't keep doing it
Yea and the idea was to codify all possible outcomes for war, its explicitly said, there is no take away from it.
Yes except he realized that it didn't work, my point is that clearly this wasn't all of the codex, the bulk of the codex is orginizational. logistics.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/06 05:29:49
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller
Watch Fortress Excalibris
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:Guilliman admitted he had failed and that you could never codify all scenarios for warfare, so he just used it from that point on as a guideline.
This is literally the opposite of "rigid and dogmatic".
Guilliman's 'flaws' are that he overthinks things and doubts himself more than he should (can't remember which book this is stated in - one of the early HH ones anyway); that he cares too much for appearances and 'honour' because deep down he's in denial about his own ambition (see The Unremembered Empire, his interactions with Euten and the Lion especially); and that he's too optimistic, idealistic, humanitarian and trusting for his own good (e.g. the Iax disaster in Dark Imperium and the attempted assassination in TUE).
The great thing about Guilliman as a character is that these are also some of his best qualities. He's not just a man out of his time (like a 21st century liberal transplanted to Mediaeval Europe), but also almost a hero from a different setting altogether. It's like if Golden Age Superman turned up in Alan Moore's Watchmen. The conflict between how he wants the world to work (where everyone cooperates for the greater good - and I use that term very deliberately) and how it actually works (too many selfish donkey-caves and a universe sliding inexorably into entropy) is delicious.
He's by far my favourite loyalist primarch, and I so want to see if he ends up cracking like my favourite 'traitor' primarch (Curze) did when his ideal (justice) turned sour...
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A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry. |
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2018/08/06 05:35:50
Subject: Halt on the lore changes
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Fiery Bright Wizard
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I personally despise all of the new lore. Bringing the primarchs back takes away from the uniqueness of the horus heresy era. Humanity in 40k is supposed to be stagnant. There is just a lot of bad lore and writing surrounding Cawl and the primaris that is even more questionable than Guilliman returning. The state of the lore around when dawn of war 1 came out and before necrons were turned into space tomb kings was the best IMO.
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2018/08/06 06:07:50
Subject: Halt on the lore changes
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Fresh-Faced New User
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What sucks is that all the lore for II and XI legions is missing so they just have to keep making new lore for the other legions and chapters
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2018/08/06 06:22:47
Subject: Re:Halt on the lore changes
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Duskweaver wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:Guilliman admitted he had failed and that you could never codify all scenarios for warfare, so he just used it from that point on as a guideline.
This is literally the opposite of "rigid and dogmatic".
Guilliman's 'flaws' are that he overthinks things and doubts himself more than he should (can't remember which book this is stated in - one of the early HH ones anyway); that he cares too much for appearances and 'honour' because deep down he's in denial about his own ambition (see The Unremembered Empire, his interactions with Euten and the Lion especially); and that he's too optimistic, idealistic, humanitarian and trusting for his own good (e.g. the Iax disaster in Dark Imperium and the attempted assassination in TUE).
The great thing about Guilliman as a character is that these are also some of his best qualities. He's not just a man out of his time (like a 21st century liberal transplanted to Mediaeval Europe), but also almost a hero from a different setting altogether. It's like if Golden Age Superman turned up in Alan Moore's Watchmen. The conflict between how he wants the world to work (where everyone cooperates for the greater good - and I use that term very deliberately) and how it actually works (too many selfish donkey-caves and a universe sliding inexorably into entropy) is delicious.
He's by far my favourite loyalist primarch, and I so want to see if he ends up cracking like my favourite 'traitor' primarch (Curze) did when his ideal (justice) turned sour...
I'm glad someone else sees it. Gulliman isn't the most boring primarch, he's the one with the most depth. He's something other then a rediculas over the top character with the blindly obvious crippling weakness,
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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