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hello dakka, i took a break from 40k for a couple months, i went to a local RTT to catch a couple games and have a good time coming back into the game. I brought my tau and i and i was inexperienced with the new codices that have come out it the past couple months. i won 2/3 games and did better than i expected. the one game i lost, i played vs a knight/guard list (very strong he came in second). anyways he had a three knight list. and i killed a knight on my second turn. he said he had a stratagem for 2 cps, where he can resurrect his knight on a 4+ with d3 wounds at the end of any phase. i should have asked to see it but i didn't. i just took him at his word (elderly gentleman drove 3 hours to get to the RTT) he then paid the 1CP to ignore all damage table chart for the turn. I killed a knight turn 2, Two knights turn 3 and, one knight on turn 4. he bought back the knight with the warlord trait of 4+ invul 3 turns in a row. and then i couldn't kill it turn 5. it was a great game, had tons of fun (was a great person to play versus). i came home and did some research on 1d4chan/spikey bits/several other sites and read up on knights. Now i always assume the best in people, but i looked up the stratagems and it says that for 2 CPS when a knight is killed you can fire in the shooting phase or fight in the fight phase, treat it as 1 wound remaining. have i missed a key important stratagem that's knights have that allow this? or did he just play it wrong or did he cheat? i don't know where he got the 4+ or the d3 wounds and the ignore damage was for a phase instead of a turn. i even looked up at the chapter approved trying to kind a stratagem but it was just rotate ion shields. i had a great time at the event but when i came home and tried to read up on the stratagems and couldn't find them my mood turned. i still assume the best of this guy, thinking he made an honest mistake but i don't know if im wrong or what to do. thanks for taking the time.

My hunch, based on the number of times we've fethed up rules even on games we wrote ourselves, is it was probably a mistake - 40k can be a complex game, there's a lot to remember. Stupidity is waaaaay more common than genuine ill intent.

Sounds like you got done, whether intentionally or not. Sorry dude! If in doubt never be afraid to ask to see the Codex. It can help prevent honest mistakes as well as cheating, and both can learn something. If what you learn is that your opponent didn’t bring a Codex and is trying to bluff it, well...

Mistakes can happen - mixing up rules for different armies and editions can very easily happen.

In general you already know hte answer in that its best to always just spend 5 seconds checking in the rules/codex if something sounds odd. No player should ever have an issue with this so it never hurts to ask if something sounds too good to be true or odd.

I'm not 100% certain of this, but I distinctly recall reading another post about this.

I believe that is accurate, there is a 2 Cp stratagem to resurrect a knight, and 1 CP to treat it like it is at full wounds for a phase. So, essentially, 3 CP for a free knight.

Sounds broken as hell to me, but I believe it's the rules.

 Skinflint Games wrote:
My hunch, based on the number of times we've fethed up rules even on games we wrote ourselves, is it was probably a mistake - 40k can be a complex game, there's a lot to remember. Stupidity is waaaaay more common than genuine ill intent.

Yes that is what i thought i assumed it was an honest mistake he seemed like a great guy.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I'm not 100% certain of this, but I distinctly recall reading another post about this.

I believe that is accurate, there is a 2 Cp stratagem to resurrect a knight, and 1 CP to treat it like it is at full wounds for a phase. So, essentially, 3 CP for a free knight.

Sounds broken as hell to me, but I believe it's the rules.

That's like saying you spent $5 for a free footlong. That's 3CPs for a single turn of shooting/krumping you can't spend on anything else.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Sounds like you got done, whether intentionally or not. Sorry dude! If in doubt never be afraid to ask to see the Codex. It can help prevent honest mistakes as well as cheating, and both can learn something. If what you learn is that your opponent didn’t bring a Codex and is trying to bluff it, well...

i just forgot to ask. i wasn't in the competitive mindset. i knew i should have when i got home

As far as i can tell your opponent hasn’t done anything wrong. He appears to have been using the House Taranis stratagem “our darkest hour,” which is 2 CP and does exactly what you describe. He was also using a stratagem called “machine spirit resurgent” which is 1 CP as you stated. From what you have recalled he didn’t do anything wrong and it all seems to be legal to me. You might have overlooked the stratagem becuase it is House specific.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I'm not 100% certain of this, but I distinctly recall reading another post about this.

I believe that is accurate, there is a 2 Cp stratagem to resurrect a knight, and 1 CP to treat it like it is at full wounds for a phase. So, essentially, 3 CP for a free knight.

Sounds broken as hell to me, but I believe it's the rules.

That's like saying you spent $5 for a free footlong. That's 3CPs for a single turn of shooting/krumping you can't spend on anything else.

He had 19. used 6 to start. so 13 had the gaurd aquilla for farming more cps. id say he used 24 cps that game easy.
the kicker was i had to keep sinking half my army to kill it for 3 turns


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Straight_Memer wrote:
As far as i can tell your opponent hasn’t done anything wrong. He appears to have been using the House Taranis stratagem “our darkest hour,” which is 2 CP and does exactly what you describe. He was also using a stratagem called “machine spirit resurgent” which is 1 CP as you stated. From what you have recalled he didn’t do anything wrong and it all seems to be legal to me. You might have overlooked the stratagem becuase it is House specific.

Thank you sir. i looked up the Taranis house stratagem. (on spikey bits i think ) it says it explodes in a 4+ and does d6 morals wounds, maybe i read it wrong or they wrote it wrong . thankyou very much. i assumed he knew what he was doing i just couldn't find it anywhere. and thats why i asked Taranis was the house he was playing. thankyou again
i

This is more of a suggestion to OP then an answer but if you have to “sinking half my army to kill it” when it only has D3 wounds remaining after coming back then i would recommend more anti tank for your list given then current meta

NahteBear wrote:
Thank you sir. i looked up the Taranis house stratagem. (on spikey bits i think ) it says it explodes in a 4+ and does d6 morals wounds, maybe i read it wrong or they wrote it wrong . thankyou very much. i assumed he knew what he was doing i just couldn't find it anywhere. and thats why i asked Taranis was the house he was playing. thankyou again
i

The Explodes on a 4+ is a generic Stratagem. The House Taranis Stratagem is D3 wounds on a 4+.

What he used was the House taranis Stratagem "Our Darkest Hour"

Our Darkest Hour

Use this Stratagem when a HOUSE TARANIS model from your army is reduced to 0 wounds but did not explode. Roll a D6; on a 4+ set the model up again at the end of the phase, as close as possible to it's previous position and more than 1" from any enemy, with D3 wounds remaining.

This was the strat they used to keep their lord alive, as it's basically a last hurrah strat so that a knight refuses to die.

On another note. Putting on the mark of the omnisiah on a warlord with house taranis would be insane! Just think of it. the knight goes to 0 you do the 4+ to keep it going it recovers D3 wounds and then at the start of it's turn it either recovers either 1 wound or D3 on a 6

That would be a stubborn knight

Straight_Memer wrote:
This is more of a suggestion to OP then an answer but if you have to “sinking half my army to kill it” when it only has D3 wounds remaining after coming back then i would recommend more anti tank for your list given then current meta

he was able to kill one 1/3 of my anti tank turn one. i agree knights are very meta. i was coming to the tournament playing tau (not a very competitive army) it was an exaggeration, but the half of my army that was sunk into it was mostly my firewarriors and one commander. when a knight is standing on an objective you have to take right in front of your gunline (and he has the advantages of going second) it is a must kill and must move off that objective while still screening was a very difficult tactical task. he came back three turns in a row and was able to wreck 2-3 units every time he revived. it all in all it still a was a very close game. he rolled hot and that happens. 3++ 6 + is no joke.

Here is my list https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/761524.page i welcome any advice
thanks for your time.

That's something house taranis knights can do with their exclusive stratagem and the 1 CP strat that counts your knight as the highest wound bracket.

 kastelen wrote:
That's something house taranis knights can do with their exclusive stratagem and the 1 CP strat that counts your knight as the highest wound bracket.

I misread I couldn't find it. after the post I looked again and it was there clear as day. thankyou for you time sir.

mchammadad wrote:
What he used was the House taranis Stratagem "Our Darkest Hour"

Our Darkest Hour

Use this Stratagem when a HOUSE TARANIS model from your army is reduced to 0 wounds but did not explode. Roll a D6; on a 4+ set the model up again at the end of the phase, as close as possible to it's previous position and more than 1" from any enemy, with D3 wounds remaining.

This was the strat they used to keep their lord alive, as it's basically a last hurrah strat so that a knight refuses to die.

On another note. Putting on the mark of the omnisiah on a warlord with house taranis would be insane! Just think of it. the knight goes to 0 you do the 4+ to keep it going it recovers D3 wounds and then at the start of it's turn it either recovers either 1 wound or D3 on a 6

That would be a stubborn knight

That and the 6+++ is why I play house Taranis. A crusader that refusea to die.

OP: yeah; all legit so long as he rolled a 4+ each resurrection.

How did some people rush in to tell OP he got jobbed? Does no one verify rules wording before posting these days?

Not that we're all innocent in that respect, I just found it really funny.

HOUSE TARANIS - Our Darkest Hour (2 CP): Use when one of your models dies and doesn’t explode. Roll a dice, on a 4+, the knight gets back up with d3 wounds left. Notably, this happens at the end of the phase meaning your Knight isn’t just going to be pasted immediately. This is why you take Taranis, so save a CP for a re-roll. Combine with the Mark of the Omnissiah Heirloom for regen shenanigans.

mhalko1 wrote:
HOUSE TARANIS - Our Darkest Hour (2 CP): Use when one of your models dies and doesn’t explode. Roll a dice, on a 4+, the knight gets back up with d3 wounds left. Notably, this happens at the end of the phase meaning your Knight isn’t just going to be pasted immediately. This is why you take Taranis, so save a CP for a re-roll. Combine with the Mark of the Omnissiah Heirloom for regen shenanigans.

The way I read that, the opponent must roll to see if the knight explodes before this stratagem can be used. Is that correct?

 mokoshkana wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:
HOUSE TARANIS - Our Darkest Hour (2 CP): Use when one of your models dies and doesn’t explode. Roll a dice, on a 4+, the knight gets back up with d3 wounds left. Notably, this happens at the end of the phase meaning your Knight isn’t just going to be pasted immediately. This is why you take Taranis, so save a CP for a re-roll. Combine with the Mark of the Omnissiah Heirloom for regen shenanigans.

The way I read that, the opponent must roll to see if the knight explodes before this stratagem can be used. Is that correct?

The actual rule is "Use this Stratagem when a HOUSE TARANIS model from your army is reduced to 0 wounds but did not explode." The wording makes it obvious you need to roll to see if it explodes first, otherwise how can you know if it didn't explode?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:
HOUSE TARANIS - Our Darkest Hour (2 CP): Use when one of your models dies and doesn’t explode. Roll a dice, on a 4+, the knight gets back up with d3 wounds left. Notably, this happens at the end of the phase meaning your Knight isn’t just going to be pasted immediately. This is why you take Taranis, so save a CP for a re-roll. Combine with the Mark of the Omnissiah Heirloom for regen shenanigans.

The way I read that, the opponent must roll to see if the knight explodes before this stratagem can be used. Is that correct?

The actual rule is "Use this Stratagem when a HOUSE TARANIS model from your army is reduced to 0 wounds but did not explode." The wording makes it obvious you need to roll to see if it explodes first, otherwise how can you know if it didn't explode?

If you never rolled, it can't explode. I imagine there are a few gamey types out there that would try to wordsmith their way out of an explodes roll, but I agree with you that a roll must occur. I merely wished to double check.

you cant avoid doing an explosion roll as it is an ability of the model in which you have no choice in the matter

Explodes: Each time a model in this unit is reduced to 0 wounds, roll a dice before removing it from the battlefield; on a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 6" suffers D3 mortal wounds


Nowhere in the explodes ability does it say you may make a dice roll, you must make a dice roll

It also makes this less useful for big knights who have 30% chance of blowing up.

So it's basically 3.5cp(50% times you need reroll the 4+) for 75% chance of bringing knight back with d3 wounds and shoot once(since you die next again) at full effect. Nice troll strategem but effect wise I'm more impressed with raven