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So, say I have 9 heavy weapons teams in a Doomhammer, and I advance the Doomhammer in its movement phase; can the HWTs still fire (with the normal penalty for moving) or do they count as having advanced too? Would all of them being TALLARN make this extra complicated?


And if I also use the smoke Launchers in the shooting phase, would the passengers still be able to fire? (though I suppose one could just pop smoke after having already fired with the passengers).

The smoke only prevents the doomhammer itself from firing. It has no effect on the embarked passengers.
The embarked passengers only penalties for shooting are that they count as having moved.
The doomhammer can be in assault and the passengers can still fire out of it as normal.

deviantduck is correct - compare and contrast the Doomhammer's rules to that of the Ork Battlewagon. The Battlewagon's "Open-Topped" rule states that models can shoot while embarked upon it, but that "When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers; for example, the passengers cannot shoot if this model has Fallen Back in the same turn, cannot shoot (except with Pistols) if this model is within 1" of an enemy unit, and so on."

Much more restrictive than the Doomhammer's "Firing Deck" rule, which simply states that if they or the Doomhammer moved, then they will also count as having moved. They can fire while the Doomhammer is locked in close combat, if the Doomhammer advanced, or if the Doomhammer fell back out of close combat.

 deviantduck wrote:
The smoke only prevents the doomhammer itself from firing. It has no effect on the embarked passengers.
The embarked passengers only penalties for shooting are that they count as having moved.
The doomhammer can be in assault and the passengers can still fire out of it as normal.

Edit - MinMax beat me to it!

Firing decks also ignore to hit penalties based on range to target(altioc)

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Firing decks also ignore to hit penalties based on range to target(altioc)

Why ?

Basic transport rules. Any rule dependent on range to or from an embarked unit has no effect; unless otherwise specified.

Open-topped(battlewagon, trukk, raider, et al) specifically transfers modifiers that would effect the transport to the embarked unit; firing decks and fire points(mostly FW) have no such specification.

Then you cannot fire because you are required to check range to the target.

Fragile wrote:
Then you cannot fire because you are required to check range to the target.

Knock it off and read the rule referenced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exact Quote of the sentence: "Unless specifically stated, abilities that effect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked."

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Then you cannot fire because you are required to check range to the target.

Knock it off and read the rule referenced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exact Quote of the sentence: "Unless specifically stated, abilities that effect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked."

I mean, as we're playing "technically correct", the Alaitoc rule doesn't affect units "within a certain range". So no, the passengers don't get to ignore the -1 to Hit Rolls as Alaitoc affects units firing at a distance of more than 12" and no rules I can find can be stapled together to pretend they can ignore it.

Rules in question:

Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked.

ALAITOC: FIELDCRAFT: Your opponent must subtract 1 from any hit rolls for attacks that target a unit with this attribute at a range of more than 12".

I'm leaning toward Fieldcraft affects units in transports. You still have to measure range to the transport and can be outside of the 12" range. I believe the embarked units rule is pertaining to units being inside of an enemies' debuff aura. Are there any of those in 40k?

Alaitoc Fieldcraft is not an ability that affects other units within a certain range. It would still affect embarked units.

Like you say, it would affect an enemy's debuff aura. Things like taking a -1 to Leadership or to Morale rolls when within x" of a unit would not work. Likewise, they wouldn't be affected by a friendly unit's buff if it's based on measuring a range to them.

The question here, then, does Feildcraft effect any units?

We know it is within a ceartain range(12"). Does it effect either unit though?

Open-topped would still have fieldcraft apply to the embarked units because it specifies any modifiers the effect the transport also applies to the embarked unit.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
The question here, then, does Feildcraft effect any units?

We know it is within a ceartain range(12"). Does it effect either unit though?

Open-topped would still have fieldcraft apply to the embarked units because it specifies any modifiers the effect the transport also applies to the embarked unit.

Actually, we certainly don't know it is within a certain range. Fieldcraft works on units outside a range, not within a range. Embarked rule doesn't say anything about being outside a range that you measure.

It is still within a certain range; are you within >12"-infinity? Then you receive -1 to hit.

Yes. Your equating field craft to auras. By that logic can the embarked unit rapid fire if under a certain distance?

 deviantduck wrote:
The smoke only prevents the doomhammer itself from firing. It has no effect on the embarked passengers.
The embarked passengers only penalties for shooting are that they count as having moved.
The doomhammer can be in assault and the passengers can still fire out of it as normal.

 MinMax wrote:
deviantduck is correct - compare and contrast the Doomhammer's rules to that of the Ork Battlewagon. The Battlewagon's "Open-Topped" rule states that models can shoot while embarked upon it, but that "When they do so, any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers; for example, the passengers cannot shoot if this model has Fallen Back in the same turn, cannot shoot (except with Pistols) if this model is within 1" of an enemy unit, and so on."

Much more restrictive than the Doomhammer's "Firing Deck" rule, which simply states that if they or the Doomhammer moved, then they will also count as having moved. They can fire while the Doomhammer is locked in close combat, if the Doomhammer advanced, or if the Doomhammer fell back out of close combat.

Thank you. That was what I thought, but just wanted to be sure that I was reading it correctly. I did not know about the Ork battlewagon rule, so that's helpful to know as well.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
It is still within a certain range; are you within >12"-infinity? Then you receive -1 to hit.

Sorry, "within" doesn't stretch like that. "Within" and "outside" are opposities.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
It is still within a certain range; are you within >12"-infinity? Then you receive -1 to hit.

“Within” requires limits, not just pretending “infinity” is one. Please just accept you’re really stretching here and your take isn’t supported by the rules?