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Hey,

So after a 6 year hiatus, I've decided to take the plunge back into 40k. Wanted to start off with a list which is somewhat fun to use but also competitive. The chapter itself is my own so I can't use named characters unfortunately. From what I've seen online most people tend to lean towards plasma nowadays as much as possible, alongside maxing out HQ units. I've included 3 lists. One is the narrative list which is a bit more fluff centred than competitive, whereas the other two focus more on efficiency.
No models have been bought yet so please feel free to rip the lists to shreds, all comments welcome!

--
List 1: 1005pts

++Librarian 93pts
- Force Sword 12pts

++Captain 74pts

++Captain 74pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Venerable Dreadnought 90pts
- Twin Autocannon 33pts
- Twin Lascannon 50pts


--
List 2: 1002pts

++Apothecary 55pts

++Captain 74pts

++Captain 74pts

++Sternguard 80pts
- x4 Combi Plasma 60pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Venerable Dreadnought 90pts
- Twin Autocannon 33pts
- Twin Lascannon 50pts

--
List 3: 1000pts

++Captain 74pts

++Captain 74pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Venerable Dreadnought 90pts
- Twin Autocannon 33pts
- Twin Lascannon 50pts

++Stormtalon Gunship 110pts
- Twin Lascannon 50pts

++Devastator Squad x5 65pts
- x3 Plasma Cannons 63pts
- x1 Amorium Cherub 5pts



Thanks in advance!

Hey there friend!

I'm a big fan of lower point games; and one of the handful of resident ultramarines players here on dakkadakka. allow me to try and help?

List 1 seems strong enough; but has a small flaw in the HQ department. there's simply no need for the 2nd captain; 2 HQs and 3 Troops makes a battalion; and the librarian/captain combo is strong enough, though some would consider swapping the librarian for a lieutenant, the two characters abilities really max out the efficiency in the plasma and assault cannons. use the points somewhere else. either hunter-killers, or if you can find the points, work towards another unit, 74pts is a lot sitting redundant.


List 2: you lost the 3rd troop that nets you the battalion, in favour of the combi-plasma sternguard. poor move, but understandable if you're just coming back to the game. I know you're working on the fact you have 3 elites in list 2, but then you have yet another redundant character. 1 hq, 3 elites.


List 3 I liked the best, mostly due to the fact it was legal. you were over your points in the other 2 lists, which while nit-picky is also entirely necessary. If your gaming group is lenient; I'd advise you run list 1; but remove the librarian. swap one captain to a lieutenant (63pts). add the devastator squad from list 3, but trip the cherub and 1 plasma cannon. a 5 man unit, with 2 plasma cannons is 107 pts.... use the last sprinkling of points to give your captain & lietenant a toy... haven't done the math exactly but either a combi-plas for the captain or power weapons for the two of them?


GamerGuy


I'd merge lists 1 & 3.

Hey, thanks for the advice!

I've managed to come up with 2 more lists based on your advice. However, I've noticed a distinct lack of an autocannon option for the venerable dreadnought in the new codex so have swapped that option for a missile launcher and added a power sword to the tac squad without a character.
However, looking at the points and flexibility of the ven dreadnought, perhaps a stormatalon is a better option?

List A: 999/1000pts

++Captain 74pts
- Power Sword 4pts
++Lieutenant 63pts
- Power Sword 4pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Power Sword 4pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts
++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts
++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts
++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts
++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Stormtalon 110pts
- Twin Lascannon 50pts

++Devastator Squad x5 65pts
- x2 Plasma Cannons 42pts
(Either power sword at 4pts or armorium cherub at 5pts)

Chapter Tactics: Raven Guard – Shadow Masters
Warlord Trait: Storm of Fire

--

List B: 1,000pts

++Captain 74pts
- Power Sword 4pts
++Lieutenant 63pts
- Power Sword 4pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Power Sword 4pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts
++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts
++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts
++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts
++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Venerable Dreadnought 90pts
- Missile Launcher 25pts
- Twin Lascannon 50pts
++Devastator Squad x5 65pts
- x2 Plasma Cannons 42pts

Chapter Tactics: Raven Guard – Shadow Masters
Warlord Trait: Storm of Fire

--

If you've got any ideas that are maybe more interchangeable than the two vehicles, let me know!

Thanks again for the tips!

Stormtalon over dreadnought I think.

Dreadnoughts I love; but with both options carrying twin-las, the toss up is between a fourth twin-assault cannon or dreadnought missile launcher?

With that said, the dreadnought brings some much needed durability to the list. it's sure to last longer due to it's smaller profile and higher toughness; while not putting out too much less dakka?


I'd take the stromtalon; but that's just me

Hi.

Seeing as you're playing 1000 point games, you pretty much are funneled into making a certain kind of list. Obviously you can use any kind of models that you want, but at the end of the day a battalion is probably the best option at the 1k level. This means 2 HQs and 3 Troops. Your most recent lists you posted are definitely the best ones.

However, unless my Battlescribe is incorrect (its a list building software) your points are wrong on some vehicles. A razorback is 70 pts, and 114 with the assault cannon. Also, a stormtalon is 204 pts with the twin lascannon option and twin AC (110+50+44). With this in mind I made the following list (again, my 3rd party software COULD be wrong but I recently updated it):

HQs

Captain - Combi plas, power sword (93pts)
Lieutenant - Combi plas, power sword (79pts)

Troops

Tac squad - 5x marines, sergeant w/ combi plas, marine w/ plas (93pts)
Tac squad - 5x marines, sergeant w/ combi plas, marine w/ plas (93pts)
Tac squad - 5x marines, sergeant w/ combi plas, marine w/ plas (93pts)

Transports
Razorback - Twin AC (114pts)
Razorback - Twin AC (114pts)
Razorback - Twin AC (114pts)

Flyer
Stormtalon - Twin AC, 2x lascannon (204pts)

TOTAL - 997 pts

It's a battalion, its mobile, it has has plenty of firepower to kill hordes or even a tough tank if need be. The HQs have some stuff on them so atleast they have a purpose, BS 2+ plasma shots re rolling is pretty damn good.

Welcome back to 40k. it's a lot different isn't it!

I[m in same boat as last played 5th ed properly!

All i can say is experiment experiment experiment. Find something that works for you and run with it. You can do lists here forever.....but nothing beats just getting gaming exp.

blood yearner wrote:
Hey, thanks for the advice!

I've managed to come up with 2 more lists based on your advice. However, I've noticed a distinct lack of an autocannon option for the venerable dreadnought in the new codex so have swapped that option for a missile launcher and added a power sword to the tac squad without a character.
However, looking at the points and flexibility of the ven dreadnought, perhaps a stormatalon is a better option?

List A: 999/1000pts

++Captain 74pts
- Power Sword 4pts
++Lieutenant 63pts
- Power Sword 4pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Power Sword 4pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts
++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts
++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts
++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts
++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Stormtalon 110pts
- Twin Lascannon 50pts

++Devastator Squad x5 65pts
- x2 Plasma Cannons 42pts
(Either power sword at 4pts or armorium cherub at 5pts)

Chapter Tactics: Raven Guard – Shadow Masters
Warlord Trait: Storm of Fire

--

List B: 1,000pts

++Captain 74pts
- Power Sword 4pts
++Lieutenant 63pts
- Power Sword 4pts

++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Power Sword 4pts
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts
++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts
++Tactical Squad x5 65pts
Sergeant:
- Combi-Plasma 15pts
Marine:
- Plasma Gun 13pts

++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts
++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts
++Razorback 65pts
- Assault Cannon 35pts

++Venerable Dreadnought 90pts
- Missile Launcher 25pts
- Twin Lascannon 50pts
++Devastator Squad x5 65pts
- x2 Plasma Cannons 42pts

Chapter Tactics: Raven Guard – Shadow Masters
Warlord Trait: Storm of Fire

--

If you've got any ideas that are maybe more interchangeable than the two vehicles, let me know!

Thanks again for the tips!

In regards to your original post, there's nothing stopping you from using Special Characters, even if they're painted up in your own scheme. You could, for example, have a red chapter called "the Red Guys", and use the Ultramarines keyword allowing you to take Marneus Calgar.

There are a couple of things in both lists that I would comment on; Power Swords are a bit of a waste on Tactical Squads, I would drop them and keep your loadout at Plasma + Combi-Plasma. Plasma Cannons on the other hand are a bit naff, personally I've always preferred Missile Launchers, they have the versatility to take on vehicles and hordes, with a much better damage output against the former.

Dreads can be good, but if you're using him as a ranged, gunline Dread then you may be able to save some points by using him as a standard one rather than Venerable.

I also see you're going for Raven Guard. If you take this list higher to the 1.5k mark, consider swapping your Captain for Lias Issodon.

Hey hey,

I was wrong on the points with the stormtalon (still getting used to the whole adding points onto units which already have to take them) but I'm 100% sure that Razorbacks are 65pts (I checked battlescribe and it does say they're more, but the codex does say 65pts).

After all the advice I've been given, the final list I've come up with is:

--
Captain (74pts): - Power Sword (4pts), Combi-Plasma (15pts)
Lieutenant (63pts): - Combi-Plasma (15pts)
Apothecary (55pts)

Tactical Squad x5 (65pts): - Sergeant: Combi-Plasma (15pts), Marine: - Plasma Gun 13pts
Tactical Squad x5 (65pts): - Sergeant: Combi-Plasma (15pts), Marine: - Plasma Gun 13pts
Tactical Squad x5 (65pts): - Sergeant: Combi-Plasma (15pts), Marine: - Plasma Gun 13pts

Razorback (65pts): - Twin Assault Cannon (35pts)
Razorback (65pts): - Twin Assault Cannon (35pts)
Razorback (65pts): - Twin Assault Cannon (35pts)

Stormtalon (110pts): - Twin Assault Cannon (35pts), - Two Lascannons/Typhoon Missile Launcher (50pts)
--

In terms of working in Lias Issodon, I've taken the Raven Guard tactic because it fits into the fluff for the army (I've been inspired to create an army of ghost marines, and yes, I'm fully aware of the Legion of the Damned). From what I've seen though, using "counts as" aren't really legal anymore, is this not the case?

The 1000pts list is only a starting block which I hope to keep as a building block to a larger force in the long run. If I were to extend the list to 1500pts, I would be considering the addition of 2 extra stormtalons (making it a detachment) alongside a Devastator squad with x2 plasma cannons.

Appreciate the help guys, glad to see the community hasn't changed from how I remember it!

Looks pretty nice!

Counts as is still totally legal depending on the kind of game you're playing.

If in a friendly at local store anyone who isn't allowing counts as is........unfriended.

In a tournament then yes it should be WYSIWYG

I assume your tactics will be get as close to enemy lines as possible (24") to get your assault cannons going..
Just be wary of Guard or Dark Eldar lists with lots of long range dakka.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Personally I go for Storm Bolter with Captain as he's better in CC than in shooting. And Storm Bolter gives him Rapid Fire in 12". More useful than a single plasma shot IMO




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Same with your Lieutenant. Give him a Master Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle or Storm Bolter and Power Sword.

Depends on the Counts-As. It's perfectly legal to use Lias Issodon in a Raven Guard force; he has the Raptors keyword, at which point you can select a trait for them "that best reflect their style of warfare", which, IMO, is Raven Guard.

Would the force have to be specifically Raven Guard in colour scheme too, or would it be acceptable in a force which adhered to Raven Guard tenets in everything but aesthetics? (Perhpas second/third founding).

You can have your own colour scheme and names for characters. As long as you make it clear which Chapter Tactics you are using, and which Character your character is representing you're fine.

Case in point my Emperor's Knights use Salamander tactics. They are cream coloured knights with not a hint of green in sight.

 blood yearner wrote:
Would the force have to be specifically Raven Guard in colour scheme too, or would it be acceptable in a force which adhered to Raven Guard tenets in everything but aesthetics? (Perhpas second/third founding).

Nope, not at all. My Marines are dark grey with yellow trim, no markings or symbology at all (part of their fluff), but they're Raven Guard rules-wise.

If on the other hand you had them painted up as Imperial Fists, that would be a bit of a weird one in terms of rules, but as long as you made it clear beforehand what they actually are there's no problems rules-wise.