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Is a Shadowsword in a 1000 point game (though legal) frowned upon since it's so powerful in 8th? Would I be considered "That Guy" if I did bring a Shadowsord to a 1000 point game?

Thanks

SG

If you're going into a friendly game, then yeah, this is not friendly. If your opponent is aware that you're bringing this and fine with it, then yeah, it's fine. If you're going into a competitive game, or tourney prep, it's not only fine, it's encouraged!

That depends entirely on your meta and your opponent's expectations.

My opponents know I love my Superheavies and I will usually bring one to 1k. I also generally ask my opponent beforehand. So far? It's not been an issue.

But if I was playing my first 1k against a new opponent who doesn't know me that well, I'd probably try to avoid it.

IMO it depends who you are facing, some armies just needs to be played at higher levels and dont have the tools at low points. Take DW for an example, but then same armies like Harlequins and CWE could kill it in 1 turn without trying.

If its a league? yeah probably, a tournament? No b.c its a tournament, friendly games? ask the player how they will.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
That depends entirely on your meta and your opponent's expectations.

My opponents know I love my Superheavies and I will usually bring one to 1k. I also generally ask my opponent beforehand. So far? It's not been an issue.

But if I was playing my first 1k against a new opponent who doesn't know me that well, I'd probably try to avoid it.

this

although i have to admit a baneblade or Knight in 1k is a bit much.

 zedsdead wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
That depends entirely on your meta and your opponent's expectations.

My opponents know I love my Superheavies and I will usually bring one to 1k. I also generally ask my opponent beforehand. So far? It's not been an issue.

But if I was playing my first 1k against a new opponent who doesn't know me that well, I'd probably try to avoid it.

this

although i have to admit a baneblade or Knight in 1k is a bit much.

Eh, it depends what you're playing. My Slaanesh would be overjoyed to see it, as they krump high-toughness things (i.e. knights) with swarms of bodies, and I know someone bringing one won't have the bodies in return to stop me from essentially having my way with them on the table.

...oh my.

If you're fine with him proxying one in future games, no.

If you're fine not bringing it if he complains, no.

I figure since I prefer a "close" game, informing the player you are bringing a LOW piece to the battle is to be sporting and managing expectation. Especially when it may account for about half the force points.

When it comes down to a serious try to beat the other player, agree on points and that is it. My friends and I have taken rules and selection to the max and have had many nasty surprises.

If you want even games that are a lot of fun, scenarios are the way to go with strong limits on what could be selected.

Had an Imperial Guard force with a Baneblade as a Planetary garrison take on mechanized SM force sent to "free the people" from the breakaway government. Giving a few victory points in damaging and killing the LOW and taking objectives (propaganda transmission emitters) was a ton of fun and he killed the beast eventually AND took enough objectives to win. Funny how looking at the huge model looks like an insurmountable foe: not so much.

Are you bringing it to smash people and hoping they can't handle it at 1000pts when it isn't a tourney and they have no prep? Yup, that's a TFG kinda thing.

If you're bringing it because you love the model, can't wait to field it and you just want to have fun with it? Let people know before the game starts, and offer for them to adjust lists and you definitely won't be that guy.

If it's a tournament, don't worry and just go nuts; everyone should be expecting to be pushed hard at a tournament.

In a way, possibly. I've always been a proponent of "Take what you want!", though I generally play 2,000-pt games. Probably in the 90%+ range. When we play at 1,250 or 1,000 it's usually because we're looking for a relaxed, quick game anyways, so the mentality is already skewed away from competition and this is reflected in the lists.

Give the guy a heads-up. Don't be a jerk.

Because if he's not expecting that, it's not 'friendly' at all. And considering the likelihood that he'll have no chance at defeating you, it certainly won't be fun. For either of you.

I won't lie, if you showed up and did that to me without giving me a heads-up, I'd just put my models away and condescendingly say "good luck finding a game, man" and go play with someone else.

When I feel like doing stuff like that (warhound titan at 2k) I always bring a second list and ask if they would like to play against it. If not, then I'll play my Titan-less 2k list.

That way if your opponent's cool with it, you get a game with your big fun toy, and if not you still can get a game in.

There's almost no reason to bring a Shadowsword in a 1k game. The thing is a titan killer! So unless your opponent brings LoW too, it is likely to be inappropriate. The same can be said for a Baneblade, its mean to be the spearhead of a big engagement not against chaff sized armies.

If you really enjoy the model, try and play bigger games where its impact is not so great.

A perfectly good excuse to bring it and ask permission:

"Dude, I've yet to try this thing out, I just wanna throw down a few things and see what it can do"

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
A perfectly good excuse to bring it and ask permission:

"Dude, I've yet to try this thing out, I just wanna throw down a few things and see what it can do"

But is it really appropriate to test something out at a points level that wont reflect how good or bad it is?

1,500 points should be the entry point and that's with the opposition tailoring for it.

 Smirrors wrote:
But is it really appropriate to test something out at a points level that wont reflect how good or bad it is?

1,500 points should be the entry point and that's with the opposition tailoring for it.

I see what you mean, and I think you can- not to get a measure of how effective it is, but sort of like... establish a rhythm for how to use its features and rules? Sounds crazy, but when I got my Repulsor I would ask to lay only it down and I would just try to get the hang of remembering all of its weapons and how they worked.

Sort of like practicing a math formula, so you know how to use it for a test, I suppose.

No, it wouldn't make you TFG and ignore all of the people trying to claim that you need to ask for special permission or let your opponent tailor against you. A Shadowsword may be difficult to kill, but TBH it isn't even very good in small games. Its main power comes from being able to one-shot expensive enemy units, if you don't bring knights/land raiders/etc for it to kill then it's just dumping STR 16 overkill into cannon fodder. And in a small game where those units are rare the Shadowsword is going to struggle to do enough to justify the 500+ points it costs. Most of the time you can probably just ignore it, kill the supporting units, and win on the objectives.

Yeah, do whatever you want because only your fun is what's important, dude. Just put down anything you want, no matter what, don't worry about that other guy.

It's not like you'll end up earning a reputation for stuff like that, and when everyone's having fun in casual games and you're sitting in a corner with your models, watching this and wondering why everyone has declined a game with you, just remember- at least you got to do what you wanted.

/sarcasm

SS is a bit much at 1k - it'll one-shot whatever tank your opponent brings, and spend the rest of the game using 'crush them' on everything else. I'd definitely give a heads up in anything but a competitive game.

The Shadow Sword is powerful against other superheavies. Against infantry blobs like Orks or Space Marine, it's meh.

Of course, an argument for having anything unkillable in a 1000 point game is a bit cheesy.

I’m with Peregrine here...I actually don’t think a shadowsword is all that good at 1000 pts. I do play on the more competitive side, but my 1k Custodes would do fine against it and my girlfriend’s SH-less guard would probably beat it too. My GK would struggle, but that’s for other reasons.
Like others have said, just give your opponent a heads up.

As others have said: in a tournament, anything legal goes.

In a prearranged "friendly", up for discussion. On occasion, my most regular opponent and I have said "I'll bring a surprise". Effectively this is a heads up for something nasty - and I'd include a super heavy in 1000 points in that category. Other times we've been explicit. If the surprise is something the other of us can't handle, we list alter by agreement.

In a walk in pickup, probably "no thanks" unless the above can be agreed.

If he is an infantry horde you are fine.. if he is a tank army and you go first it will all be a bit binary.

Anything out of place in a 1000 point list does kind of make you "that guy" lol.

Eg Guilliman in a 1000 point game.

But if opponent is lucky and has enough anti-tank he MIGHT just take Shadowsword down......

MIGHT.....

Not like a shadowsword is super deadly. It can be one-shotted by your typical helblaster gunline.

Take whatever you want it's your army. Is your opponent going to give you a warning that he's taking unit x, y or z probably not.
As people have mentioned in other threads, Superheavies in 8th are very conditional, they can be killed a lot easier now and they don't always recoup their points.

As I said before, if you clear it with your opponent’s first, and they welcome the challenge, bring it on; I’ve already thrown down the gauntlet to my buddies to deal with two Primarchs and a forgeworld Daemon engine in 1500pts. They already said “bring it on; we might get our asses kicked, but that sounds like fun”.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Are you bringing it to smash people and hoping they can't handle it at 1000pts when it isn't a tourney and they have no prep? Yup, that's a TFG kinda thing.

If you're bringing it because you love the model, can't wait to field it and you just want to have fun with it? Let people know before the game starts, and offer for them to adjust lists and you definitely won't be that guy.

If it's a tournament, don't worry and just go nuts; everyone should be expecting to be pushed hard at a tournament.

This.

Bringing models does not make you TFG. Your intention makes you TFG.

Want to win the game or spring a trap on your opponent by bringing a hard to handle unit? You're TFG.

Want to bring your lord of war and still have a fun game? You're not. Just make sure the other guy is also having a fun game.

Funny how TFG has changed from meaning someone who cheats, is a general ass, doesn't know the rules, and makes crap up, and generally makes the game un-fun to someone who brings a shadow-sword.

Bringing an all tank list is ok though? 28 T8 wounds = TFG. 72 T8 wounds (6 russ tanks) = OK. Or is that a TFG thing too? If so, how about a write up of what is an 'allowed' list.

"TFG" is overused. That said:

Playing a Guard list in a casual setting, where you're concerned about balance and your opponent having a fun time, is already a mistake. Either they can cut through your chaff and kill your tanks or they can't. The game is already over in the list building phase.

This is the general problem with super heavies. They require specific tools to remove and those tools are generally absent in a 1,000 point game. Would you be okay facing a 3++ Castellan in a 1000 point game? Would you be okay losing your Shadow Sword turn 1 to it, before you got to move it? If the answer isn't "of course, that's totally fine" don't bring your super heavy.