Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Many of the options in the relic sections of our books are reasonably powerful and/or interesting to use. Unfortunately, most of our books also have one or two relics that you just can't bring yourself to pass up for one of the less powerful options. So what if we just made the "never take" relics into wargear that can be purchased with points? You could toss such options into a "Rare Wargear" section that all characters have access to and state that a given army may not include more than one of a given piece of "Rare Wargear" due to their, uh, rarity.

Looking at my asuryani codex, my farseer will never take Kurnous' Bow (a slightly better than normal pistol) over the Phoenix Gem or the Shiftshroud of Altansair, but he might take Kurnous' Bow in addition to one of those other options for 5 or 10 points. My autarch doesn't really need a Shard of Anaris or The Burnished Blade of Eliarna, but they might be nice to have in exchange for a few extra points over the cost of a power sword. You could even consider making such wargear available to certain non-character models. Maybe my Howling Banshee Exarch wants to try out a sword with the profile of a Shard of Anaris. Maybe my Sybarite wants to spend a couple of points on the Poisoned Tongue pistol that my succubus doesn't want to take over the red grief's special glaive or a blast pistol.

Obviously, you wouldn't make all relics purchasable. Most of the relics that actually see play right now are probably best left as relics with all the limitations that entails. But the second-stringer relics that we never get around to using? Let's give them a points price tag and take them for a spin. Thoughts?

Nah, the biggest mistake this edition was all relics not being purchased, because, while some have interesting rules (here's looking at you, Spartean!), they aren't worth a Command Point and you might not even buy them for the points, and some are just frankly too much when you get them effectively for free, like the Aquila.

Especially for weapons anyway. The new AP system really changed the usefulness of different weapons. Now I would buy the Spartean for 5 points compared to last edition. However, the Aquila is something easily worth 25+ points.

I also feel you should be allowed to purchase two Relics for the same character if you want, but that's just me and for a different topic of discussion.

Doubling down on relics on a single character will be broken in 5 minutes tops if its allowed.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Doubling down on relics on a single character will be broken in 5 minutes tops if its allowed.

Got any examples?

Knight with sanctuary, the 4++ relic , 2+ armour save relic and the paragon gauntlet.

 kastelen wrote:
Knight with sanctuary, the 4++ relic , 2+ armour save relic and the paragon gauntlet.

So... Cost them appropriately?

Or not allow Knights to double up on Relics?

Also, Sanctuary and the Armor Of The Sainted are a little redundant with each other. Not much has AP-4 or better in melee.

Edit: I will agree, probably best to not let Knights double-up. They're strong enough as-is.

Bur Marines can only put relics on models that 150 points or so, at most, meaning their effect is a little diluted.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 kastelen wrote:
Knight with sanctuary, the 4++ relic , 2+ armour save relic and the paragon gauntlet.

So... Cost them appropriately?

Bingo

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nah, the biggest mistake this edition was all relics not being purchased, because, while some have interesting rules (here's looking at you, Spartean!), they aren't worth a Command Point and you might not even buy them for the points, and some are just frankly too much when you get them effectively for free, like the Aquila.

Especially for weapons anyway. The new AP system really changed the usefulness of different weapons. Now I would buy the Spartean for 5 points compared to last edition. However, the Aquila is something easily worth 25+ points.

I also feel you should be allowed to purchase two Relics for the same character if you want, but that's just me and for a different topic of discussion.

I think I'm misunderstanding you. Everything you just said makes it sound like you like my idea or even want to take it a step further. If relics aren't worth a CP but are worth a few points, then shouldn't they be purchasable with points like other wargear? And if some relics are too good when t hey're "free," that makes it sound like you want to take things a step further and make all relics purchasable with points instead of just the crummy ones.

Basically, my pitch can be boiled down to, "No one is ever going to take the super special power sword and pistol relics. How about we make those into wargear that costs points, but you can only have one of each in your army?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 kastelen wrote:
Knight with sanctuary, the 4++ relic , 2+ armour save relic and the paragon gauntlet.

So... Cost them appropriately?

Bingo

Not to derail my own thread, but at that point you'd have to price things with synergy in mind, which is one of the issues that they actually avoided by limiting relics to one per character. If two relics together have an effect that is worth, say, 50 points, but their effects individually are only worth, say, 10 and 15 points individiually, then what price do you actually give them? Do you make them both 25 points, thus overpricing them when taken individually, or do you assume everyone will always be fielding the synergistic combo, those overcharging people who don't? Or do you make a table/formula that determines a different price based on which of a list of relics you're taking on a single character?