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Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Command Point generation has caused a lot of debate in the community, especially the disparity between more horde based armies that can generate loads, and small elite armies that can generate few. Before anyone thinks I'm biased in this matter, my only army is Orks and we have no issues spamming CP! Rather, I find the current system somewhat backwards; instead of rewarding players for fielding fluffy armies, they are punished for not ticking boxes in detachments. A player that fields bizarre mixes of detachments based around min-maxing numbers gets rewarded.

Which got me thinking: what if CP were instead generated by our actions on the battlefield? Instead of ticking boxes, suddenly we'd have to work for our CP. First turns would see little to no CP usage, but as the battle continued and both sides achieved objectives, they'd be able to use more abilities.

And then it struck me: we have this system already. They're called Victory Points. Aside from the ones specific to missions, like Slay the Warlord or Linebreaker, there's also the Tactical Objective cards, which have faction specific ones for most factions too. It would be incredibly easy to do a straight port of this: instead of generating CP from detachments, each VP you earn gives you 1 CP. The only change would be that VP would be generated at once, instead of at the end of the mission, in the case of things like Slay the Warlord.

Thoughts?
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Personally i think it would be intresting if everyone started off with their base command points but could generate more off of objectives in the game. specificly things like com relays or supplies.

but then at the same time its possible by doing so you can give some one who is already winning a bigger edge so its kinda backwards to reward some one with something that will make you win even harder.

I think the only real thing to do is cut out all this detachment nonsense, everyone gets X CP at X points and thats it

no more regeneration, stealing or denying.

fluffy or not.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Ork Warboss





 Desubot wrote:
I think the only real thing to do is cut out all this detachment nonsense, everyone gets X CP at X points and thats it
The problem with this is twofold.
First, in their infinite wisdom, GW have "balanced" stratagems based on how many CP the army is "supposed" to have. That's why Custodes and Necron stratagems are so powerful for a low CP cost, while Imperial Guard get things like "Fire On My Position", which would be a criminal waste of points were it not for the abuse of refund and steal mechanics.

Secondly, using a 1 CP stratagem on a unit of Custodes is always going to be better value than using it on an Infantry Squad. They are a force multiplier that benefit elite armies. It just doesn't seem like it due to the fundamental flaws of 8th edition making elite armies a non-starter.

I agree that CP regeneration and stealing need to be axed, permanently.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/11 01:02:19


Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. Zoom in to read them. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy; "minimum" ranges don't work; Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll; the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit; the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously; Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields; Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12"; Spore Mines have an infinite range; Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad; T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only); the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle; you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it; if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit; a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight; Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything; Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers; Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice; "Airborne" units can't be charged by non-FLY units, but can be Heroically Intervened into, piled into, or consolidated into just fine by non-FLY units; Wave Serpents cannot be legally charged at by any model with a standard base; Slab Shields, along with the 'Take Cover!' stratagem no longer have any effect; and vehicles that are "slain" by a special effect do not trigger the "Explodes" ability.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
I think the only real thing to do is cut out all this detachment nonsense, everyone gets X CP at X points and thats it
The problem with this is twofold.
First, in their infinite wisdom, GW have "balanced" stratagems based on how many CP the army is "supposed" to have. That's why Custodes and Necron stratagems are so powerful for a low CP cost, while Imperial Guard get things like "Fire On My Position", which would be a criminal waste of points were it not for the abuse of refund and steal mechanics.

Secondly, using a 1 CP stratagem on a unit of Custodes is always going to be better value than using it on an Infantry Squad. They are a force multiplier that benefit elite armies. It just doesn't seem like it due to the fundamental flaws of 8th edition making elite armies a non-starter.

I agree that CP regeneration and stealing need to be axed, permanently.


That all seems like a simple matter of tweaking stratagem CP costs though.

That said, awarding CP when you earn VP is going to result in a snowball effect. If your first turn or two go well, your later turns will go even better. You could invert that and create a rubber band mechanic by awarding CP to the person with less VP, but that's counterintuitive and effectively punishes scoring VP.

Personally, I think it might be neat to see armies generate CP for satisfying some sort of fluffy behavior, but that's probably very difficult to balance. Desu is on the right track. Everyone gets X CP, and we divorce force org slot from CP generation so that you're not rewarded/punished for playing certain army themes.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





One issue will be that with gw making 8th ed so deadly(to make games be faster despite individual turns taking longer) games are basically over by turnsw2-3.

Also would play havoc on all pregame/deployment strategems

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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