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With Smurfboy back we have gotten quite a new wave of thingies, like 40 metric ton of levitating metal shooty box, so why can't we have force fields on marines? ..or least just the FC?

- Termies should have handheld mortars.
- Termies and marine hats shouldn't have structural weakness like holes for eye optics, but should instead be external cams that transfer the picture either via wires or other kinds of transmission.

You’ve been after this force fields on all Marines thing for about four years, based on your post history. Maybe time to let it drop? ;-)

we already have force fields on Marines, it's called the Iron Halo.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
You’ve been after this force fields on all Marines thing for about four years, based on your post history. Maybe time to let it drop? ;-)

But back then Smurf Boy wasn't back?

HexHammer wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
You’ve been after this force fields on all Marines thing for about four years, based on your post history. Maybe time to let it drop? ;-)

But back then Smurf Boy wasn't back?

Smurf Boy being back has no bearing on the rarity of force field technology.

The Primaris and new grav tech are Cawl's personal pet projects, that he was directed by Guilliman to do, and has had 10,000 years to work on it. Clearly, Guilliman felt that making more powerful infantrymen and equipment for them was more important than making force field technology, which I'm inclined to agree with.

Terminators have little need for handheld mortars when their primary role is often in close quarters battlefields, where mortars would be a liability. Storm bolters are perfect weapons for this, as are flamers and assault cannons. An argument could be made for Terminators to have some kind of shotgun weapon, but storm bolters seem good enough.

It's not hard to believe that the lenses of Space Marine armour is starship grade pexiglass. It's probably slightly weaker, but honestly, when it can probably deflect a bullet aimed right at it, and it's already absolutely tiny, it's a little redundant to change it.

Force fields are INCREDIBLY rare still. Terminators have it on their Terminator Armour because of what the armour was built for (so there's no risk of tech heresy) but portable infantryman shields are incredibly hard to come by. In the 40k RPGs, they're some of the rarest items a player can have, and these include Deathwatch Veterans.

TL;DR Guilliman waking up doesn't change the fact that force fields are rare.

My only beef with force fields being rare is how common a rosarious is.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
My only beef with force fields being rare is how common a rosarious is.

Space Marines are able to supply their Captains and Chaplains both with force fields, but that's about it.

The Ecclesiarchy can supply their Priests with them because it's the Ecclesiarchy, probably the single richest organisation in the Imperium.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Smurf Boy being back has no bearing on the rarity of force field technology.

The Primaris and new grav tech are Cawl's personal pet projects, that he was directed by Guilliman to do, and has had 10,000 years to work on it. Clearly, Guilliman felt that making more powerful infantrymen and equipment for them was more important than making force field technology, which I'm inclined to agree with.

Per se you are right, but GW needs to reinvent their IP and have many times rewritten fluff, so GW just need to comply.

HexHammer wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Smurf Boy being back has no bearing on the rarity of force field technology.

The Primaris and new grav tech are Cawl's personal pet projects, that he was directed by Guilliman to do, and has had 10,000 years to work on it. Clearly, Guilliman felt that making more powerful infantrymen and equipment for them was more important than making force field technology, which I'm inclined to agree with.

Per se you are right, but GW needs to reinvent their IP and have many times rewritten fluff, so GW just need to comply.

GW just needs to comply with your demands eh? boy someone's got a large ego.

HexHammer wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Smurf Boy being back has no bearing on the rarity of force field technology.

The Primaris and new grav tech are Cawl's personal pet projects, that he was directed by Guilliman to do, and has had 10,000 years to work on it. Clearly, Guilliman felt that making more powerful infantrymen and equipment for them was more important than making force field technology, which I'm inclined to agree with.

Per se you are right, but GW needs to reinvent their IP and have many times rewritten fluff, so GW just need to comply.

Do they need to reinvent anything? They doubled their profits recently. They're going from strength to strength with the new material they're releasing, and personally, I haven't enjoyed the hobby more. I'd say they're doing just fine as they currently are.

Primaris was a chance to cash in on true-scale Space Marines, and to create a branch away from 3rd party companies who were increasingly encroaching on the old Mark 7 power armour designs. They weren't made with the goal of advancing the tech level, they advanced the tech level to reach their goal, as stated above. What would adding force fields do, other than to please you?
Consistently, in 40k's design, force fields have been rare, reserved for leaders and specifically made armoured vehicles. Why does that need to change? It'd be like saying "Yeah, I know that bolt weapons have been the Space Marine's primary weapon since their inception, but GW need to give them lasguns now". Oh wait, there's a thread for that...

I understand that you seem to want 40k to be more like "high sci-fi" with infantrymen being more like Heinlein's Starship Troopers, or Space Marines more like Spartans (with MJOLNIR shielding), but 40k is special from all of those because of the fact it's NOT all elegant and super-advanced tech. It's comparatively crude but utterly deadly force, like bolters and power armour. It's hazardous and barely understood technology like plasma guns. It's subverting the ideas of other more common sci-fantasy settings with laser guns that are little more than glorified flashlights.

What would force fields add to 40k that needs to be added?

Termies and marine hats shouldn't have structural weakness like holes for eye optics, but should instead be external cams that transfer the picture either via wires or other kinds of transmission.

Shoot the cameras = blind Termy

In any case, I could add that the lenses are already in all probability cameras anyway. Surely you didn't think that the photo-reactive filtering, multi-spectral imaging, HUD and datafeed and the autosense targeting are accomplished by two mere pieces of glass?

Terminators already have the Cyclone Missile Launcher. They also have a "force field" by way of a 5++

And yeah what does Guillimann coming back have to do with this...Those stuff didn't exists in HH and that was when Guillimann and his brothers were all active AND Imperium had more tech than they have now.

tneva82 wrote:
And yeah what does Guillimann coming back have to do with this...

Per se it has NOTHING to do with anything, but it's funny that we have gotten this anti grav tank and primaris all of a sudden with Smurf Boy's appearance? Besides I expect something revolutionary since he's a primarch and only imperial primarch alive, to my knowledge.

HexHammer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And yeah what does Guillimann coming back have to do with this...

Per se it has NOTHING to do with anything, but it's funny that we have gotten this anti grav tank and primaris all of a sudden with Smurf Boy's appearance? Besides I expect something revolutionary since he's a primarch and only imperial primarch alive, to my knowledge.

Lion is more alive than Guilliman is. Seeing as he's fine without the magic.

pm713 wrote:
Lion is more alive than Guilliman is. Seeing as he's fine without the magic.

Uhmm, you are right, let me rephrase, his whereabouts are not known?

HexHammer wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Lion is more alive than Guilliman is. Seeing as he's fine without the magic.

Uhmm, you are right, let me rephrase, his whereabouts are not known?

He's at the heart of the Rock. He's actually the first one we got a hard confirmation on a loyalist being alive.

pm713 wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And yeah what does Guillimann coming back have to do with this...

Per se it has NOTHING to do with anything, but it's funny that we have gotten this anti grav tank and primaris all of a sudden with Smurf Boy's appearance? Besides I expect something revolutionary since he's a primarch and only imperial primarch alive, to my knowledge.

Lion is more alive than Guilliman is. Seeing as he's fine without the magic.

So the Lion is living, breathing and active. you have a pretty strange definition of things "THAT MAN IN A COMA IS MORE ALIVE THEN THAT MAN THERE BECAUSE THE MAN THERE WAS TREATED WITH MEDICINE! HE'S NOT MANLY ENEUGH TO SURVIVE WITHOUT"

HoundsofDemos wrote:
He's at the heart of the Rock. He's actually the first one we got a hard confirmation on a loyalist being alive.

Uhmmm isn't that like "suspended animation"? No imperial dude has confirmed this?

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And yeah what does Guillimann coming back have to do with this...

Per se it has NOTHING to do with anything, but it's funny that we have gotten this anti grav tank and primaris all of a sudden with Smurf Boy's appearance? Besides I expect something revolutionary since he's a primarch and only imperial primarch alive, to my knowledge.

Lion is more alive than Guilliman is. Seeing as he's fine without the magic.

So the Lion is living, breathing and active. you have a pretty strange definition of things "THAT MAN IN A COMA IS MORE ALIVE THEN THAT MAN THERE BECAUSE THE MAN THERE WAS TREATED WITH MEDICINE! HE'S NOT MANLY ENEUGH TO SURVIVE WITHOUT"

The Lion is completely medically fine. You could turn off the stasis field and shove him into a fight immediately. The only reason he's in stasis is because the Emperor decided not to tell anyone he's there and the DA's weird aliens don't either.
Roboute needs to stay in life support armour all the time because he was 99.99% dead for ten thousand years. One is far closer to dying than the other.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And yeah what does Guillimann coming back have to do with this...

Per se it has NOTHING to do with anything, but it's funny that we have gotten this anti grav tank and primaris all of a sudden with Smurf Boy's appearance? Besides I expect something revolutionary since he's a primarch and only imperial primarch alive, to my knowledge.

Lion is more alive than Guilliman is. Seeing as he's fine without the magic.

So the Lion is living, breathing and active. you have a pretty strange definition of things "THAT MAN IN A COMA IS MORE ALIVE THEN THAT MAN THERE BECAUSE THE MAN THERE WAS TREATED WITH MEDICINE! HE'S NOT MANLY ENEUGH TO SURVIVE WITHOUT"

The Lion is completely medically fine. You could turn off the stasis field and shove him into a fight immediately. The only reason he's in stasis is because the Emperor decided not to tell anyone he's there and the DA's weird aliens don't either.
Roboute needs to stay in life support armour all the time because he was 99.99% dead for ten thousand years. One is far closer to dying than the other.

actually her's appered outside of his armor in just about every book apperance since so... apparently not

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And yeah what does Guillimann coming back have to do with this...

Per se it has NOTHING to do with anything, but it's funny that we have gotten this anti grav tank and primaris all of a sudden with Smurf Boy's appearance? Besides I expect something revolutionary since he's a primarch and only imperial primarch alive, to my knowledge.

Lion is more alive than Guilliman is. Seeing as he's fine without the magic.

So the Lion is living, breathing and active. you have a pretty strange definition of things "THAT MAN IN A COMA IS MORE ALIVE THEN THAT MAN THERE BECAUSE THE MAN THERE WAS TREATED WITH MEDICINE! HE'S NOT MANLY ENEUGH TO SURVIVE WITHOUT"

The Lion is completely medically fine. You could turn off the stasis field and shove him into a fight immediately. The only reason he's in stasis is because the Emperor decided not to tell anyone he's there and the DA's weird aliens don't either.
Roboute needs to stay in life support armour all the time because he was 99.99% dead for ten thousand years. One is far closer to dying than the other.

actually her's appered outside of his armor in just about every book apperance since so... apparently not

Then that is my bad. Sorry.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And yeah what does Guillimann coming back have to do with this...

Per se it has NOTHING to do with anything, but it's funny that we have gotten this anti grav tank and primaris all of a sudden with Smurf Boy's appearance? Besides I expect something revolutionary since he's a primarch and only imperial primarch alive, to my knowledge.

Lion is more alive than Guilliman is. Seeing as he's fine without the magic.

So the Lion is living, breathing and active. you have a pretty strange definition of things "THAT MAN IN A COMA IS MORE ALIVE THEN THAT MAN THERE BECAUSE THE MAN THERE WAS TREATED WITH MEDICINE! HE'S NOT MANLY ENEUGH TO SURVIVE WITHOUT"

The Lion is completely medically fine. You could turn off the stasis field and shove him into a fight immediately. The only reason he's in stasis is because the Emperor decided not to tell anyone he's there and the DA's weird aliens don't either.
Roboute needs to stay in life support armour all the time because he was 99.99% dead for ten thousand years. One is far closer to dying than the other.

actually he's appered outside of his armor in just about every book apperance since so... apparently not

Then that is my bad. Sorry.

easy thing to miss, especially if you're behind in your novels, BTW Dark Imperium and Watchers on the throne, which are the novels I'm thinking of are worth reading. Watchers is proably our best look at the High Lords to date.

That sounds interesting. I've always been curious what the High Lords actually do seeing as the Imperium takes so long to do things and communicate they can't be the most efficient leaders.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Terminators have little need for handheld mortars when their primary role is often in close quarters battlefields, where mortars would be a liability. Storm bolters are perfect weapons for this, as are flamers and assault cannons. An argument could be made for Terminators to have some kind of shotgun weapon, but storm bolters seem good enough.

I talk from a game perspective, not a Table Top perspective, where all are neatly arranged and has to wait for their turn to move, etc with weird rules.
Very very few scenarios allows for direct engagement in melee where the enemy can move, or with all enemies in direct LoS. Sometimes the enemy has heavy cover why an arcing trajectory would be handy, to hit enemies behind cover or shooting from behind cover.

HexHammer wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Terminators have little need for handheld mortars when their primary role is often in close quarters battlefields, where mortars would be a liability. Storm bolters are perfect weapons for this, as are flamers and assault cannons. An argument could be made for Terminators to have some kind of shotgun weapon, but storm bolters seem good enough.

I talk from a game perspective, not a Table Top perspective, where all are neatly arranged and has to wait for their turn to move, etc with weird rules.
Very very few scenarios allows for direct engagement in melee where the enemy can move, or with all enemies in direct LoS. Sometimes the enemy has heavy cover why an arcing trajectory would be handy, to hit enemies behind cover or shooting from behind cover.

or just blow through the cover. Space Marines aren't "long drawn out siege troops" they don't engage in trench warfare etc. that type of gak is the Guard's job/ Space Marines are shock troopers

HexHammer wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Terminators have little need for handheld mortars when their primary role is often in close quarters battlefields, where mortars would be a liability. Storm bolters are perfect weapons for this, as are flamers and assault cannons. An argument could be made for Terminators to have some kind of shotgun weapon, but storm bolters seem good enough.

I talk from a game perspective, not a Table Top perspective, where all are neatly arranged and has to wait for their turn to move, etc with weird rules.
Very very few scenarios allows for direct engagement in melee where the enemy can move, or with all enemies in direct LoS. Sometimes the enemy has heavy cover why an arcing trajectory would be handy, to hit enemies behind cover or shooting from behind cover.

I'm talking from a "real" perspective, not a game or tabletop one.

You say "very few scenarios allow for direct engagement" - Terminators aren't deployed in those situations. Terminators are primarily employed in a shock troops role, and more importantly, in small, closed, Zone Mortalis environments.

Terminators have no need to hit enemies behind cover (and even less to actually USE COVER, because of their extreme armour), but they do have need for strong direct fire weapons, with heavy target saturation, with little need for range or finesse.

The environments in which an indirect weapon like a mortar would be useful are not the kind of ones Terminators are employed in. An arcing trajectory is no use when you're fighting in the bowels of a space hulk, starship corridors, or underground bunkers.

I'd argue that you could use something like a mortar in space hulks considering how huge some rooms are but for that you could just bring some devastators along.

SB and Bolters in general are kinda under powered relative to they're alleged caliber. .75 Caliber in real life is less an anti personnel round and more what we used to knock out aircraft back in the day.