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So have any of you run into this situation?

I play Genestealers and as a pure CC army I rush forward braving the swath of gunfire to finally assault and get my claws into the enemy.

Now after I manage to assault the next round I win initiative. I choose to stay in CC.... my opp then falls back leaving me no recourse to assault him again as I choose to "move all my models before he does any of his. The rules as written do not allow me to give the initiative to my opp if I win the roll.

What can I do?

Charge in waves! If there's a chance you won't win in a single round, focus your charges and keep models ready to counter charge (even falling back with your models already in combat so they can charge elsewhere).

Yes I understand what you are saying but after loosing 2-3 from shooting then assaulting in with everything I can (so I can do as much damage as possible to as many of my opp's models as possible) whatever survives my assault has a 50% chance (IE I win initiative) to be able to waltse out of combat allowing any unengagued models to blast my guys who are just sitting there with their claws up their excrement holes because I won "advantage"....

and if I loose the "advantage" roll they can fall back but that allows me to assault them again with no overwatch or choose new targets... This seems like a much better option to me.

Keep secondary chargers around. You can't fall back during your movement if you've been charged that turn and you can't react if you're already in melee.

Example:

Turn 1-
Genestealer 1 charges Enemy. Enemy can fall back or overwatch. Stealer makes it to melee and Enemy survives.

Turn 2-
--Enemy goes first. Falls back, you charge again. simple
--You go first. Genestealer 2 charges the enemy already in combat with Genestealer 1. Now Enemy can't react because he's in combat and then during his movement phase he can't fall back because he was charged this turn.

Keeping some melee guants just for this is a good idea. Stealers do the hard work, Gaunts help keep enemies stuck in melee.

Edit: In this game initiative is definitely something you you don't always want to win. In fact, I wouldn't think of rolling higher than your opponent is "winning". It's not a roll to win and go first, it's just a roll to determine who is forced to go first. Who "wins" the init roll depends on the situation.

I played a game of Necrons (me) vs Orks. When the Orks won initiative and started in CC they would stay in CC. I would then retreat the with my engaged models so that my other Necrons could fire at the orks that were in CC. If I won initiative it was harder for me as Necrons. I would either have to stay in CC or fall back. Falling back didn't really do much for me as then the Orks player could just charge or even just move into CC again. I would actually stay in CC, hoping my tough necrons survived (which they did), until I lost initiative next round.

I find I usually want to lose initiative. It's better than winning most of the time.

As much as I like the alternating activations, this issue with close combat and falling back is one of the few issues I have with the game. There are too few instances where going first is actually advantageous. Going second and reacting to your opponent's moves (and charging his guys that might have actually moved closer) is almost always more useful.

I sort of think they didnt actually playtest this game. Like, there are work arounds - though, the notion that as a melee army you have to leave your units *out of melee* to try and keep fighting is a heck of a work around to wrap my head around - but basically, everything feels half-baked.

If you leave combat, there should be a free attack, or a chance to follow up, or...something. I've never been more disappointed by a GW product than this one.

Initiative is not black or white as it usually happens in other games and i actually feel this is a good thing.
I believe it gives both melee focused and shooting focused kill teams a bit of tactical choices. Otherwise melee oriented armies would be ever protected in close combat, especially in a game with such a short game board.

Hanksingle wrote:
I sort of think they didnt actually playtest this game.

Ding ding ding we have a winner!

spartiatis wrote:
Initiative is not black or white as it usually happens in other games and i actually feel this is a good thing.
I believe it gives both melee focused and shooting focused kill teams a bit of tactical choices. Otherwise melee oriented armies would be ever protected in close combat, especially in a game with such a short game board.

Totally. It annoyed me the first time it happened, but on reflection it's a pretty brilliant balancing mechanics.

Going first has advantages and disadvantages. I wish this was the case in 40k frankly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Hanksingle wrote:
I sort of think they didnt actually playtest this game.

Ding ding ding we have a winner!

Oh please, grow up guys.

KT needs a Heroic Move mechanic like SBG that is powered by command points, all factions should have it.

SBG from memory also has a random Priority or initiative phase. I think the high roller also 'wins' - although 'winning' doesnt necessarily always mean a better outcome depending on the battlefield state.

You can you use Decisive Move to move first in the move phase (you can use this to charge a unit, have it fall back in its move phase, then charge again in yours). Maybe they need an Indecisive Move so that you can choose to go last too?

 Sqorgar wrote:
You can you use Decisive Move to move first in the move phase (you can use this to charge a unit, have it fall back in its move phase, then charge again in yours). Maybe they need an Indecisive Move so that you can choose to go last too?

Funny, but actually a good idea! Maybe call it "Tactical Patience?"

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Hanksingle wrote:
I sort of think they didnt actually playtest this game.

Ding ding ding we have a winner!

You two sound like you're just upset you aren't winning enough.

Kill team has a better ruleset than 40k. Heck, it's about as good as any miniature game I can think of.

One important point - read (or re-read) the rules for Fall Back. If any models begin the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy model, then they can only remain stationary or Fall Back.

This pre-empts the rule triggering charges (enemy model > 1" away and less than 12" away), because it's a check that occurs at the beginning of the phase - before any models have moved for either player - but affects what can (and can't) be done for the rest of the phase.

This means that if your opponent wins initiative and chooses to Fall Back with a model that was within 1" of one of your models at the start of the Movement phase, you *cannot* subsequently use that previously-engaged model to charge his Fallen Back model. Which makes the situation even trickier if you didn't win the combat in the previous round.