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Soup Curbing Proposal via first turn roll off  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Hello All

Soup allowing cherry picking of the most powerful units and synergies from multiple codex's.

How about adding the following rule

Unfamiliar Comanders

For each detachment within your army that only shares the following keywords with your Warlord you suffer a -1 to your dice to roll off for first turn or seizing the initiative. Imperium, Aeldari, Chaos.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Could work, but your premise is wrong.
You don't pick the strongest allied units normally but the ones to boolster a weakness.
Custodes and marines pick a AM detachment to get cp.


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




So you can’t seize the initiative (6-1=5)?
I think the solution is fluffy, but the problem is that you can mitigate the penalty by having fewer drops, and it’s only a slight disadvantage...you can still win the roll to go first. If you want to penalize soup you need to penalize it directly.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I'd worry that you'd be trying to balance one problem (soup efficiency) with another problem (first turn alpha strike issues). If the latter is in place to balance out the former, it disincentivizes fixing the former.

As others have pointed out, the main advantage of souping is not cherry picking units so much as it is generating lots of CP with guard or dark eldar (who also provide Agents of Vect most of the time). I think one of the more popular CP fixes I've seen floating around might resolve this issue at the same time.

If CP is generated based on points level and then "spent" to buy detachments (batallions cost 1, patrols cost 3, vanguard cost 5, for example), then you simultaneously take away the incentive to run soup lists purely for the sake of CP batteries AND you implement a more tangible penalty for taking those allied detachments.

So for instance, I might normally start the game with 10CP at 1500 points (just as an example; let's not get hung up on specific numbers). I'd spend 1 CP to field a batallion of craftworlders. I really want some ravagers and access to Agents of Vect, but that would mean running a dark eldar detachment, but that will mean either taking a batallion (lots of points into warriors and HQs that I might not necessarily want that badly), plus it will only cost me 1CP to get them, OR I could field a spearhead to spend all my points on those raiders I want and an archon to buff them, but it will cost me 5 CP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/19 04:42:00



ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Ice_can wrote:
Hello All

Soup allowing cherry picking of the most powerful units and synergies from multiple codex's.

How about adding the following rule

Unfamiliar Comanders

For each detachment within your army that only shares the following keywords with your Warlord you suffer a -1 to your dice to roll off for first turn or seizing the initiative. Imperium, Aeldari, Chaos.


Thats a nice fluffy and historical accurate solution. I like that better than nerfing a particular codex and harming mono army players.
   
 
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