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Forgive me if I'm being daft but...

From my knowledge the Chaos gods were created essentially through emotion, primal forces, and the power of belief. Also of note, Gork and Mork?

Now I know there's existing theories on the Void Dragon/C'tan but what i'm talking about is with the Mechanicus being around since before the Great Crusade could it entirely be possible that a "God of Machines" could be born into existence given enough time?

Thank you to all who answer for I am a lowly Cogboi with many questions.

 Austinman42 wrote:
From my knowledge the Chaos gods were created essentially through emotion, primal forces, and the power of belief.

I've always felt the "humans woke them up during the middle ages" explanation to be fairly weak.

Slaanesh was created by a galaxy wide, highly psychic race indulging in millions of years of hedonism.
Khorne's awakening, on the other hand, is apparently tied into a tiny race that hadn't even started to manifest its psychic potential having a few wars that were tiny on a galactic scale..

I personally choose the interpretation that these gods had existed long before, and the Middle Ages was instead when they first began to become aware of humanity. (Which generally works, given the general human-centric nature of the fluff).

As far as an Omnissiah - well, the sheer psychic energy needed to create Slaanesh was massive - while the human race is now larger than the peak of the Eldar Empire, it has not existed for anywhere near as long, and you have to remember that an overwhelming majority of humanity, even a significant portion of the Adeptus Mechanicus itself, accepts the Emperor as the manifestation of the Omnissiah, so the existence of a separate machine deity formed by human belief seems... at least unlikely to have created an entity of any significant power as of the current time frame of the fluff.

The humans woke them up thing refers to the original 3 Gods becoming self aware rather than them starting. They started in the War in Heaven.

If Tau of all people can create one, the Machine Cult should beat them with trivial ease, if only due to the weight of numbers...

What do you mean could be possible? It is the god emperor!

(Pay no mind to stories of metalic dragons.)

 Austinman42 wrote:
Forgive me if I'm being daft but...

From my knowledge the Chaos gods were created essentially through emotion, primal forces, and the power of belief. Also of note, Gork and Mork?

Now I know there's existing theories on the Void Dragon/C'tan but what i'm talking about is with the Mechanicus being around since before the Great Crusade could it entirely be possible that a "God of Machines" could be born into existence given enough time?

Thank you to all who answer for I am a lowly Cogboi with many questions.

No, the void dragon is the reason for their belief in the Omnissiah, the Emperor put it there before the Mechanicum existed. As for a new god coming into existence based on their belief, sure but it might be nothing of what they think they are praying to and it would probably be conjoined with the god of 'faiths' as in the belief of the Emperor being a god even the belief of the chaos gods, more likely a 'belief/hope' type of Chaos god. May not be benefilant at all as it would look to get peoples worship and the old testament shows what a dick god was in trying to do that.

All knowledge exists within the warp, the mechanicum created the akashic (sp?) reader to download this info, where that info within the warp comes from could possibly be the machine god, very doubtful but possible.

 Formosa wrote:
All knowledge exists within the warp, the mechanicum created the akashic (sp?) reader to download this info, where that info within the warp comes from could possibly be the machine god, very doubtful but possible.

It don't see what the akashic reader has to do with this. They knowledge is already in the warp, it has always been there, there would be an omnissiah from the beginning if that were the case. Tzeentch is already that god. The god of intrigue knowledge etc. I could see a god of worship coming but Tzeentch is kinda already the god of the Mechanicum.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
All knowledge exists within the warp, the mechanicum created the akashic (sp?) reader to download this info, where that info within the warp comes from could possibly be the machine god, very doubtful but possible.

It don't see what the akashic reader has to do with this. They knowledge is already in the warp, it has always been there, there would be an omnissiah from the beginning if that were the case. Tzeentch is already that god. The god of intrigue knowledge etc. I could see a god of worship coming but Tzeentch is kinda already the god of the Mechanicum.

The akashic reader is just a maguffin to show that knowledge as a concept exists within the warp and can be tapped into, given how we know how the chaos gods and Deamons can be created by concepts coming together and forming a greater whole, it just shows that it’s possbile that this knowledge could be linked to the machine god or even lead to its creationism, but very unlikely.

Also I am not aware of Tzeentch being the god of knowledge, I know it’s change, ambition etc. But are you sure it’s the god of knowledge?

 Formosa wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
All knowledge exists within the warp, the mechanicum created the akashic (sp?) reader to download this info, where that info within the warp comes from could possibly be the machine god, very doubtful but possible.

It don't see what the akashic reader has to do with this. They knowledge is already in the warp, it has always been there, there would be an omnissiah from the beginning if that were the case. Tzeentch is already that god. The god of intrigue knowledge etc. I could see a god of worship coming but Tzeentch is kinda already the god of the Mechanicum.

The akashic reader is just a maguffin to show that knowledge as a concept exists within the warp and can be tapped into, given how we know how the chaos gods and Deamons can be created by concepts coming together and forming a greater whole, it just shows that it’s possbile that this knowledge could be linked to the machine god or even lead to its creationism, but very unlikely.

Also I am not aware of Tzeentch being the god of knowledge, I know it’s change, ambition etc. But are you sure it’s the god of knowledge?

Well intrigue is the pursuit of knowledge so I'd bet heavily that he is.

From what I understand, aren't Gods more effected by the emotions of their followers rather than their thoughts? If it is emotions that create Gods, then the mechanical followers of the Omnissiah are a bit out of luck.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
All knowledge exists within the warp, the mechanicum created the akashic (sp?) reader to download this info, where that info within the warp comes from could possibly be the machine god, very doubtful but possible.

It don't see what the akashic reader has to do with this. They knowledge is already in the warp, it has always been there, there would be an omnissiah from the beginning if that were the case. Tzeentch is already that god. The god of intrigue knowledge etc. I could see a god of worship coming but Tzeentch is kinda already the god of the Mechanicum.

Time is paradoxical in the warp, Slaanesh was created during the fall but would have also always existed at the same time as not yet existing. Though it's also not rare for the big four to pretend to be other gods as well so for all anyone knows the Omnissiah could exist and just be Tzeentch tricking them.

 n0t_u wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
All knowledge exists within the warp, the mechanicum created the akashic (sp?) reader to download this info, where that info within the warp comes from could possibly be the machine god, very doubtful but possible.

It don't see what the akashic reader has to do with this. They knowledge is already in the warp, it has always been there, there would be an omnissiah from the beginning if that were the case. Tzeentch is already that god. The god of intrigue knowledge etc. I could see a god of worship coming but Tzeentch is kinda already the god of the Mechanicum.

Time is paradoxical in the warp, Slaanesh was created during the fall but would have also always existed at the same time as not yet existing. Though it's also not rare for the big four to pretend to be other gods as well so for all anyone knows the Omnissiah could exist and just be Tzeentch tricking them.

Not so, time doesn't work the same if it works at all but they are still effected by causation. To exist at all there has to be souls in the galaxy for them to exist. they cannot have our knowledge and emotions before we existed. If humans exist, therefore so does the knowledge in the warp.

I do however think the warp especially the Gods know the concept of time, They have to in order to coordinate attacks and machinations in the materium. Especially to orchestrate the HH.

This is one of the paradox’s of the warp. Time isn’t supposed to exist there but it must for the stories to work otherwise the could just keep retrying every time they fail. I think of it as time is in flux, it eddies like a current so can pass very quickly or very slowly but it still passes, and very power warp beings like the gods can control it to an extent. But I’m no physicist. I know time is weird in real life let alone in the made up warp.

Andykp wrote:
I know time is weird in real life let alone in the made up warp.

To quote something that dredged itself out of the foetid depths of my mind several years ago:

"Time and distance flow like water there. Seconds turn into years, years turn into hours, hours turn into centimetres, centimetres turn into walruses. It's a realm of no fixed rules, and as many or as few dimensions as it likes."

The Machine God (also known as the Omnissiah or Deus Mechanicus) is the supernatural entity worshipped by the Tech-priests and other servants of the Adeptus Mechanicus as the embodiment and bestower of all knowledge and technology in the universe.

So apparently the god that you’re asking about is already (in the opinion of the Mechanicum) around.

Andykp wrote:
This is one of the paradox’s of the warp. Time isn’t supposed to exist there but it must for the stories to work otherwise the could just keep retrying every time they fail. I think of it as time is in flux, it eddies like a current so can pass very quickly or very slowly but it still passes, and very power warp beings like the gods can control it to an extent. But I’m no physicist. I know time is weird in real life let alone in the made up warp.

Lol, that's actually just how time flows in our universe believe it or not. Time travels more slowly the faster you accelerate in comparison to stationary bodies and in the perspective of the stationary bodies. Look into time dilation, its just as bonkers as the warp. For instance when you accelerate not only is time travelling slower but your whole length contracts.

In answer to the original question yes, and It’s been happening for a while. To be completely honest it’s a little weird that the men of Iron (self aware machines that ruined the original Imperium sometime M15) or the necrons didn’t have an earlier effect on this. The big four are actually not the only chaos gods. There’s about 7 more active in the warp. Theese are: Gork (Ork), Mork (ork), Isha (Eldar), Quah (Hurd), The Emperor (/Star child etc) and finally debatably Malal/Malice (chaos) and Valoscht (machines).

The last one, Valoschat, is very debatable if it’s a god or just a vastly power demonic entity. He’s apparently the patron entity of the soul forges of the warp, basically the patron of defilers and such. I think he’s only mentioned in some black library series. He’s the only example of a warp version of the machine god that I’ve ever heard of though.

 Nerak wrote:
In answer to the original question yes, and It’s been happening for a while. To be completely honest it’s a little weird that the men of Iron (self aware machines that ruined the original Imperium sometime M15) or the necrons didn’t have an earlier effect on this. The big four are actually not the only chaos gods. There’s about 7 more active in the warp. Theese are: Gork (Ork), Mork (ork), Isha (Eldar), Quah (Hurd), The Emperor (/Star child etc) and finally debatably Malal/Malice (chaos) and Valoscht (machines).

The last one, Valoschat, is very debatable if it’s a god or just a vastly power demonic entity. He’s apparently the patron entity of the soul forges of the warp, basically the patron of defilers and such. I think he’s only mentioned in some black library series. He’s the only example of a warp version of the machine god that I’ve ever heard of though.

It hasn't happened at all.

 MarcoSkoll wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I know time is weird in real life let alone in the made up warp.

To quote something that dredged itself out of the foetid depths of my mind several years ago:

"Time and distance flow like water there. Seconds turn into years, years turn into hours, hours turn into centimetres, centimetres turn into walruses. It's a realm of no fixed rules, and as many or as few dimensions as it likes."

I love that. That sounds just perfect. Any idea where it’s feom.

And del, I realised as I was writing it that I’ve heard that’s how time works in reality but it boggles my mind. As I’ve said before. I don’t do physics. As you said if you remove time from the warp as is suggested then the whole story falls apart. Maybe they have to obey mortal time lines to influence them. After watching linterstellar” maybe the warp is just a manifestation of our own imaginations and we are all projections of our own dreams. And stuff.

I think the main difference between the Warp and time dilation/relativity is that relativity is both quantifiable and calculable. The Warp, by its very nature, is capricious and unpredictable. All the stuff about time distortions in the Warp seems to indicate it's pretty random.

It's the difference between something being unintuitive and unintuitable (that's now a word...that I just made up).

Slipspace wrote:
I think the main difference between the Warp and time dilation/relativity is that relativity is both quantifiable and calculable. The Warp, by its very nature, is capricious and unpredictable. All the stuff about time distortions in the Warp seems to indicate it's pretty random.

It's the difference between something being unintuitive and unintuitable (that's now a word...that I just made up).

Its the same as in it ebbs and flows. the Warp is probably very likely quantifiable, probably only to the denizens of the warp though.

Andykp wrote:
I love that. That sounds just perfect. Any idea where it’s feom.

It was something I came up with during a discussion of tesseract vaults (and, in particular, what version of Ward's inconsistent lore to go with...). It never really made much sense to me that a multi-dimensional prison, in and of itself, was a particular challenge to a daemon - the warp is far weirder.

Whenever people say there is no time in the warp I think it is an over simplification. Clearly it makes no sence from our vocabularety and we do not know what governs it, but clearly it is not completly timeless or chaos would excist and not excist at the same time. (Considering one of them is a negative trait one could argue they do currently do that. But nore to the point it is documented a time when slanesh was not eating eldar souls.)

The provlem with the oversimplyfication is that time is difficult to pin down, and is very subjective. If current acepted physics models are correct the closer to the speed of light something moves the less time will pass for that object.

For the most part people operate with time at 3 levels. 1. Experienced time, by the thing in your mind that informs you of the feeling of time passing. 2. Acepted time keeping equipent that we adhere to. Like clocks and calendars. 3. Time like physics talks about it. 1 and 2 is never a problem as we live rather locally (one plannnet, one solar system, one galaxy.) 3. Is for the most part not a problem because it is either theoretical, or we all move at the same speed (the speed of the planet.) However 1, 2 and 3 do not grant us a better understanding of the warp as our vocabulary breaks down describing it.

From Slaves to Darkness p12 - 13 ebook