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Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







I had an opportunity to try my Thousand Sons out on the table for the first time this weekend, and I walked away thinking that the Legion as a concept is sort of crippled in concept by how GW wrote the rules for psykers in 7e. There isn't really a middle ground where things just sort of work; there's a perfect storm case that's godly powerful where a squad of Warp Speed/Iron Arm Sekhmet under Endurance with staffs gets a super-mode Perils roll and wades in swinging with five S9/AP2 Fleshbane/Armourbane/Smash attacks at I7 from every model and demolishes the opposition (then ignores any incoming fire with T7/2+/3++/4+ FNP/EW), and the Warp Charge mechanism means there's very little your opponent can do about it, but the whole structure of the psychic phase seems geared towards dangling this kind of epic best-case super-mode scenario in front of you while setting the dice up to make sure it might happen one game in five, while the rest of the time you're a Legion with some irrelevant quirky side rules that spends ~300pts on Mastery levels that end up doing very little, getting driven over by people who have better stuff. Unless you take Magnus and start flinging D-strength Witchfires around.

Does this line up with other peoples' experience of the Thousand Sons, or is there some kind of path to making them work beyond "take Magnus and pray to the dice gods" I'm not seeing? Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on trying to write some homebrew psychic rules that function better than the current set, possibly anchored in the 3e-5e concepts of paying points to know powers rather than rolling and making individual powers weaker but easier to cast?

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think you've got the jist of it yeah.

DFTT 
   
Made in gb
Legendary Dogfighter





England

The psykic phase rules are a straight port from 7th edition. They suck, which is why I've never encountered anyone other than thousand sons players using psykers of any kind.

It was a big missed opportunity that FW didn't change them with the release of the AoD rule book. At least they toned down the most broken powers.

it's the quiet ones you have to look out for. Their the ones that change the world, the loud ones just take the credit for it. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Here's one who likes using librarian and hopefully get extra attacks and/or S boost. Been pretty good so far. Except once when I kept rolling 1's with him after rolling worst possible spells possible.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Kalamazoo

GW has had a long history of being unable to balance the Psychic/magic phases both in 40k and Fantasy.

Either psychic powers were so weak as to be inconsequential, or they are so overpowering as to require you to go all in on them. Having one or two mages seldom was an effective choice, as they couldn't stop a dedicated magic army but did not provide much benefit on their own.

I'm not sure 8th has fixed this. Heresy certainly has not. TS units are undercosted even before you add on the easy access to psychic powers. They very clearly needed some higher point costs to correlate to the better stats. This has not been forthcoming and FW's glacial pace on updates has left us in an unstable state.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




I think (thoug i havent tried it because i dont have as many daemons) the probably most cheesy tactic including psychic phase is to play Word Bearers and include daemonic allies of Tzeentch.

2 units of 20 Horrors + Herald should give you around 8 dice (i dont have codex with me now) and should cost up to 500 points.

This way you can practically dominate psychic phase summoning and buffing units all around.

however...

I would say dont overcheese your list and gameplay because you will not find players. 1st thing is that HH is starving for players and 2nd because not many want to lose all the time against cheese.
   
Made in hr
Regular Dakkanaut





Custodes & TS in same book, power creep? Whap power creep, xD
   
Made in us
Abel





Washington State

 smurfORnot wrote:
Custodes & TS in same book, power creep? Whap power creep, xD


Balanced out by the crap show they made out of the Space Wolves.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
 
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