Warbands of Wrath and Ruin- Red Box Games Sword and Sorcery Barbarians KS

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**tre manor**

hey yall! Got a new Kickstarter on the go!

This is the " soft launch " of the as yet unpublished name of the SDSP. These barbarians are intended as the core troop type of the warbands controlled by the players in the game. Warbands can range in number from 6 to 9 followers at the lowest level up to 24 at the highest levels. The warbands are led by powerful characters called " Chosen " who are accompanied by a wide range of followers of various nature and role.

The idea here is to fund these and get he ball rolling on the product line and HOPEFULLY create a little breathign room for me to focus on the rules development to the poitn I can get it ready fro publishing in it's beta state.

These are cast in resin as well! better detail and easier to work with. The resin itself is a specially formulated mix that the caster specifically commissioned a chemist to produce for them. It looks like resin but it feels like HIPS. It is really very very awesome. they even cast some skeletons to send me as samples and the skeletons were durable enough that I had to seriously try to break them. The ticker figures were that much more resilient. No bending. No chipping when I THREW them on the floor. I am very impressed with this product and very excited to start producing in it.

So if you get the inclination here is the link to the kickstarter!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1103158358/warbands-of-wrath-and-ruin?ref=project_build

**grefven**

Cool stuf Tre! I hope this will be another of your successful kickstarters. One thought, though. These barbarians are very similar to other of your previous kickstarter projects for evil barbarians/helsvakt. Will those figures be usable for your new SDSP project, too?

**Mysterio**

Finally!

I'm in, and looking forward to more!

**BobtheInquisitor**

Eh. I'll wait until I can pick up the one or two I want and see the resin quality for myself.

**tre manor**

Perfectly understandable Bob. I had really wanted to ship some samples with the rewards of Warbands VI but I just was not 100% on board with the idea then. Given my first experience with a resin project I am INCREDIBLY particular about the entire enterprise. I have been convinced though that this is the right thing to do.

And thanks yall!

Re; old helsvakt in the SDSP.... Well they wont be " canon " but they are scale compatible. I don't see any reason hey would not fit in though.

**Monkeysloth**

Who's the caster? I know Valliant has done your resin in the past but this seams like new stuff.

**tre manor**

it is new stuff. I have to ask their permission to say first though. They have been a round for a long time but I like to make sure before I say who it is I am working with on a project.

**Sabotage!**

This is extremely exciting, I've been waiting for a very long time for this to come about. I hope we can a lot of folks on board, as Tre produces some really top notch miniatures with a really unique vision, and more people need to soak in their glory.

**Gallahad**

I backed, I'm very excited.

I assume that many of their legs are still WIP? They have very skinny legs that are incongruent with their upper bodies.
I'd also love to see some helmets that take stylistic cues from ancient cultures.

**tre manor**

Thanks Sabotage and Gallhad!

well there will be a lot of different helmet styles to choose from. I have ( REALLY terrible ) pictures of 8 other helm options that I already have sculpted. I will see what I can do to get some better pics of these to show.

**Gallahad**

What about the legs? Are those still WIP/will they be bulked up?

**tre manor**

This may be one of those " fresh eyes " things. Which ones are you thinking need bulking up?

**BobtheInquisitor**

Some of them look to have thin legs just from the angle of the photos, but at least a few have really developed arms and somewhat poorly defined leg muscles, and at least a coup,e dudes have forearms that appear bulkier than their calves. I'm not sure if the legs just need more definition, but the guys without boots could probably use some added thickness in their legs from the knees down.

**kestral**

I really like the look of these guys as staring points for a number of projects.

**tre manor**

I think that this may defitiely be a matter fo POV witht he camera shot. I will see if a light skinning of putty thickens them up a little though.

Thanks KEstral! That si the whole idea. These guys are supposed to be the base plate of the warband. So not really anything special. Quickly and easily painted with minimal requisite decision making or creativity. I did still want to leave room for both though. I think it will be interesting to see different warpaint schemes on them.

**Gallahad**

tre manor wrote:

This may be one of those " fresh eyes " things. Which ones are you thinking need bulking up?

Honestly, I think most of them could use a little more mass on their legs. A couple are in the believable range, but it is safe to say that none of them have heavily muscled legs. In the image below, the arm and leg lines are the exact same size for each guy (meaning the length of the line spanning his leg is just rotated to cover his arm):

So there are at least 4 guys whose legs are only as wide as their arms. I understand that some of the bulk of the leg presents from the side, so there is likely some more bulk from the side view, but I think they would look more believable and a little less cartoonish with bulkier and slightly more defined leg muscles. I mean, at least a few barbarians out of ten should have heavily muscled legs as well as torsos right?

Please understand that I love your sculpting, and I love barbarians, so please take this criticism in the spirit it is offered. Thank you for listening.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry to dominate the thread, I just really love barbarians...

Some helmet styles I'd love to see:
(spoilered for size)

Spoiler:

**grefven**

Hey Tre. What is the thickness of those swords/weapons? Will that affect this new resin any?

**tre manor**

These swords and weapons are all place holders while I get the actual weapons done. However the thickness of these weapons would nto cause any problem for the resin based ont he casts that I have received as samples. They sent me casts of 28 mm skeletons to show the tolerances for such things. and these stood up rather well to stress. if you WANT to break them you can but that goes to say for anything. But normal usage or dropping them from head height to the top of a table and then them bouncing on the floor a few times had no visible effect.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
No offense taken at all Gallahad. I totally understand.

Well there are few things at work in those pictures that skew the comparison. One is the loin cloths obscuring the lower back muscles of the legs which increase the overall girth. Two would be the angle of the pictures. On a couple there might actually be som need to thicken them up a bit and I am working on that.

as far as the other helm styles go; yes there will be similarly shaped helms int he options list.

**Schmapdi**

Can we see those skeletons or any tests casts of anything in this new material?

Am curious, why didn't you use the new resin for your Orc kickstarter 2 weeks ago if it's so amazing?

**RiTides**

Well, for one the price of the orks would've been considerably higher, and folks already balked at the price unfortunately.

I'm bummed because I was all about the orks, but hope this does well!

**tre manor**

exactly what RiTides said. I don't know if it was the price, the fact that most of my fans already have the orcs, or that the orcs weren't more varied, or the material or the timing.

Marketing miniatures has become a mystery to me.

I am going to ask permission fromt he caster to be a bit more public about their product. The tricky thing is that some of their other clients may not want to be public about where they get their product from. Companies are weird like that.

just to put people's minds at ease if this is a point of worry, I am not working with Trollsforge on this. Or the new company that trollsforge sold to for that matter. There is a LOT of their product already ont he market through various other companies.

**Schmapdi**

First update - freebie added:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1103158358/warbands-of-wrath-and-ruin/posts/2286242

**Carlovonsexron**

I would LOVE to see what your idea for a hoplite looks like!!

**Mysterio**

I think it would have been a good idea to have also had some 'non-human' models available here too, from the start.

If not a full 10 figure band, maybe a champion or two, by way of a 'preview', available via add-on to help push up that pledge total...

**tre manor**

Good point Mysterio. That is something I will work on before the end of the campaign.

Thanks Carlovonsexron! When I say " Hoplite " though I am nto making reference to the Greek warrior per se. More that I am referencing a lightly armored warrior with bronze level equipment. These Hoplites armor consists of Helm, Cuirass, greaves and vambrace and shield just like the hoplite but the materials and style of armor is a bit different.

**Mysterio**

Good to hear!

I've been waiting a long time for the SDSP to finally launch, so I definitely want it to fund so we can start down the path sooner rather than later.

I'm in for the full foot warriors now, and I'd definitely up that if you put some add-ons from other races in!

**Monkeysloth**

Here's Tre's post on this from Facebook

OK so the kickstarter is not going as well as I had hoped. Truth be told I am afraid we wont make it to funding. I REALLY want to get the ball rolling on the development of the SDSP and this offering is intended as exactly that.
I believe in the manufacturer I am contracting with for the production of the resin and I really like the way the product looks and feels. However, I understand that there is a great deal of trepidation for people where resin production is involved ( with Red Box Games ). It is for this reason that I am currently agonizing over what to do to get this project off the ground and humming along.
There is not much time left in the current campaign so whatever I do I have to do it quickly and it has to work really well.
Ok so what I am wondering is if perhaps offering the SDSP product in metal rather than resin is the right way to go.
One solution is to add a metal pledge to the current kickstarter. However that creates a new problem. I would still need to produce the product in resin for those who do not switch their pledge over to metal. This would not be something I could afford to do unfortunately.
The second solution is to cancel the currently running kickstarter and relaunch the campaign for metal. This is less than ideal for a host of reasons but if this is what needs to be done then that is what I will do.
I really want the SDSP to FINALLY get off of the ground so I put it here to you;
Is it the material of the figures being offered?
Is it the figures being offered?

and my response

Material really isn't an issue for me but as I've said before we don't know what we're buying. Still no art, finished sculpts, description of the long term goal with the SDSP. Look at any other successful KSer that's launching some type of game and then compare those to yours. You can't blame people for not backing as right now you're just trusting that your fan base will buy whatever you make instead of actually trying to sell a product to people. Heck, even look back at older KSers that Redbox as run and there's less information for this campaign then any I can remember and yet, outside of the first KSer Tre ran, this is supposed to be some huge important one that launches a new world and game. People are only going to get excited if there's effort to get them excited.

Also I know that Tre is really wanting multipart generics but maybe that's not the way to start with this as going with some basic looking troops isn't terribly exciting, Maybe start with some unique character models that show of your vision and then start to add in units as you figure out the rules and such. This is what both Wyrd and Privateer did before their games became a reality.

**Mysterio**

I agree!

I still think starting with Generic Human Barbarians is part of the issue - there are a LOT of them already available, just like Orcs.

Waiting until a non-human band (or two) was also ready to show/offer would have been a good idea.

Plus a peek at the rules would not have hurt either.

**BobtheInquisitor**

While I have some concerns over the medium, the real issue for me is the, for lack of better term, value. I don't want all of those Barbarians, especially not at the price you are asking for the whole squad, and unlike your restic orcs I don't feel okay subsidizing your new venture by buying too many minis that don't all excite me. And a few of the barbarians really are just not up to your usual quality.

If the band were more diverse, and most of the miniatures were exciting, I'd pledge.

If the barbarians were more unique in design, posing and sculpting, and I could be in for half as many/at half the price, I'd pledge.

If you had an interesting new race or a new take on an old trope (the orcs worked for me), and again either all the minis were good or there were fewer to buy upfront, I'd pledge.

If you were moving into plastics, I'd pledge.

**Schmapdi**

I'd be OK with metal, but I'd rather keep the whole line consistent in material with the new resin. (if it as good as claimed).

I think the problem with the campaign is the stone silence from it, No updates, no completed sculpts (or progress shots), no scale shots, no pics of anything made from this new (mystery) resin. Its asking for a lot of blind faith.

I also agree with the barbarians not being the most exciting of sculpts, they (and the priestess) are on the plain side.

Am not bothered by the price at all - am surprised other people are.