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Made in gb
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





UK

Compared to other Primaris units (Intercessors, Agressors, Hellblasters) are Reivers actually worth taking?

Intercessors get 30" bolt rifles or Stalker Bolt Rifles , Aggressors get TONNES of shots with their Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets or Flamers, and Hellblasters are the new darlings of most space marine players with their long range plasma.

But Reivers.....well let's see what they can do..

Normal stats for them as Primaris maines so WS 3+ M6" 3+ save etc etc etc

Bolt Carbines are 24" Assault 2 S4 AP0 D1 (cough Old Style Storm Bolters cough) which compared to Auto Bolt Rifles or Bolt Rifles for Intercessors is........crap. Bolt Rifles are -1AP at least

Combat Knives are Melee S User and allow you to make an extra attack. On a Sergeant this means he can make 4 attacks............meh ok. No Power Swords for Reivers but Power Swords for INTERCESSOR PRIMARIS SERGEANT = BAD

Heavy Bolt Pistols are 12" S 4 Ap-1 D1 So let me get this straight. The bolt carbines are Ap0 but the shorter range pistols are AP-1......so Reivers should wait to fire till they're within 12" range cause then they can charge and hit things with their Combat Knives! So are Reivers the new Assault Squads for Primaris??

Shock Grenades are 6" range D3 grenades that when they hit enemy infantry stun them. so they can't fire Overwatch and must subtract 1 from any hit rolls made in CC. OK so that's geared towards Reivers being Assault Troops.

Grav Chutes allow you to arrive within 9" away from enemy models at the end of your first movement phase if you keep them in reserve

Grapnel Launchers let you set up behind enemy lines during deployment and disregard any vertical movement distance when the unit does move (I am BATMAN!))


So a unit of 5 men (4 Reivers and Sergeant) wth 4 Bolt Carbines, one Combat knife and Heavy Bolt Pistol and Grapnel Launcher and Grav Chutes is 110 points.

Now you can replace all carbines with Combat Knives and have them going Rambo Style......but I think they'd become a Suicide Squad (!!!) as they'd assault an enemy unit and hopefuly win (!!) and then........be facing down a lot of guns with no way to fire back.




Now a question:

If they are the new version of assault troops (I thought Aggressors do a better job personally) should you take small units of them (5 man) or go up to the big 8 man+ size to really take advantage of their Asaultiness. Or disregard them completely in favour of more Intercessors and Hellblasters!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/13 09:26:57


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Dunno, I don't collect Primaris.
I do know though that you should really change your thread title to something a little more descriptive of the Original Post's.
! Says nothing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/13 09:18:40


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





UK

Sorry I changed it. didn't realise it had deleted thread name
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





Auto bolt rifles do not have any AP, stat wise they are EXACTLY like the Bolt Carbine.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

I've found them to be a pretty effective disruption unit. I play Bolt Pistols and Knives, infiltrate them with STFS and that way I save points by not taking Grav Chutes and they're up there in the opponent's lines on Turn 1. They won't perform miracles, but they're all W2 guys with 3A each and a decent pistol.
   
Made in ca
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





Canada

I've been using them as cheap meatshields for my Grav Captain. My P-Marines mostly stand still and shoot, but the Captain is definitely better in combat, if you're paying points for the Grav Armour and Gauntlet you might as well use them.

I run mine with knife and pistol too since thats what the EZ Build guys come with, but I forgo the special gear. Can't recall what the cost for 6 is, but it's not astronomical! I plunk them down in front of Grav Cap, wait for the inevitable moment when the opponent reaches my lines, and then I throw them into combat and intervention the Cap behind them. They put out a ton of attacks, and the heavy pistol let's them take advantage of the UM trait afterwards. Plus that grenade does wonders.

I think for now that's about the long and short of Reivers until we get some more units for Primaris armies. I could see them being a very handy harassment unit with grapnel launchers and carbines as well. Being able to ignore terrain like that is basically like having the Fly keyword and I could see how it would be very easy to kite units with Grapnel Reivers.

Perhaps that is an idea for a cheeseball army someone could do? All Reivers with Grapnels. Just bop around the board all day. Say stuff like 'neener-neener-neener'...



Gets along better with animals... Go figure. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Until they get an AP value on their Knives, they'll be pretty mediocre.

Also their Sergeant not having access to a Power Sword is pure silliness.

CaptainStabby wrote:
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 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in jp
Been Around the Block




 Corennus wrote:
Compared to other Primaris units (Intercessors, Agressors, Hellblasters) are Reivers actually worth taking?

Intercessors get 30" bolt rifles or Stalker Bolt Rifles , Aggressors get TONNES of shots with their Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets or Flamers, and Hellblasters are the new darlings of most space marine players with their long range plasma.

But Reivers.....well let's see what they can do..

Normal stats for them as Primaris maines so WS 3+ M6" 3+ save etc etc etc

Bolt Carbines are 24" Assault 2 S4 AP0 D1 (cough Old Style Storm Bolters cough) which compared to Auto Bolt Rifles or Bolt Rifles for Intercessors is........crap. Bolt Rifles are -1AP at least

Combat Knives are Melee S User and allow you to make an extra attack. On a Sergeant this means he can make 4 attacks............meh ok. No Power Swords for Reivers but Power Swords for INTERCESSOR PRIMARIS SERGEANT = BAD

Heavy Bolt Pistols are 12" S 4 Ap-1 D1 So let me get this straight. The bolt carbines are Ap0 but the shorter range pistols are AP-1......so Reivers should wait to fire till they're within 12" range cause then they can charge and hit things with their Combat Knives! So are Reivers the new Assault Squads for Primaris??

Shock Grenades are 6" range D3 grenades that when they hit enemy infantry stun them. so they can't fire Overwatch and must subtract 1 from any hit rolls made in CC. OK so that's geared towards Reivers being Assault Troops.

Grav Chutes allow you to arrive within 9" away from enemy models at the end of your first movement phase if you keep them in reserve

Grapnel Launchers let you set up behind enemy lines during deployment and disregard any vertical movement distance when the unit does move (I am BATMAN!))


So a unit of 5 men (4 Reivers and Sergeant) wth 4 Bolt Carbines, one Combat knife and Heavy Bolt Pistol and Grapnel Launcher and Grav Chutes is 110 points.

Now you can replace all carbines with Combat Knives and have them going Rambo Style......but I think they'd become a Suicide Squad (!!!) as they'd assault an enemy unit and hopefuly win (!!) and then........be facing down a lot of guns with no way to fire back.




Now a question:

If they are the new version of assault troops (I thought Aggressors do a better job personally) should you take small units of them (5 man) or go up to the big 8 man+ size to really take advantage of their Asaultiness. Or disregard them completely in favour of more Intercessors and Hellblasters!



A squad of 5 functions as both Scouts and a unit of 10 regular marines. If you set them at 24 inches, which is right on the edge of your deployment zone, they get what a regular bolt rifle gets at 12 inches. That's pretty good. Forward operate them, and run them around like Harlequins, and you have an annoying unit of BATMANS flying around grabbing objectives on top floors without issues. So when you are placing objectives, put them on the top floors. It will screw over armies that don't have that ability.

 ChargerIIC wrote:


A bolter fires and a Necron succumbs. His corpse rises up as a poxwalker much to the horror of his comrades. Then, to everyone's surprise his corpse rises again as a fully functionality necron. The necron and the poxwalker stare at each other, both wondering which of them is the clone.
 
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

They have a great USP - short charges with grapnel guns. Great for DS'ing onto the top floor, and making a 4"-or-so charge against a passing unit.
   
Made in gb
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




Thoughts on blood angels reivers? Would you stick with bolt guns or bolt pistols + ccwto make use of +1 to wound?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 grouchoben wrote:
They have a great USP - short charges with grapnel guns. Great for DS'ing onto the top floor, and making a 4"-or-so charge against a passing unit.

I would tempernthat with, it being roumered that GW maybe addressing this in the FAQ as it sounds like they didn't intend people to be able to get 2 inch charges out of deepstrike.
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






They exactly ARE primaries version of assault marines.

And no, they are not the best in every scenario, just like many other units they are intended for specific scenario
And a rather common one-heavy 3D terrain saturated tables, mostly small ones.
So, kill teams, combat patrol in dense terrain, cities of death, etc.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Eventually I’m going to be testing Raven Guard Reivers alongside other assault units.

It’s a big CP SftS investment, but, depending on what you’re up against, it could be devastating. Essentially 2 units of Reivers would deny overwatch for 2 flank units, while I charge with an “ignores overwatch” Warlord and another unit, essentially making several turn 1 charges for free.

Of course, it’ll likely be just against screening units, but, I’ll happily remove 2 or 3 screening units in the fight phase in addition to all the shooting and then having a big threat right in my opponents deployment zone.
It’s a big “deal with this, or deal with my backline shooting” decision.
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

Ice_can wrote:
 grouchoben wrote:
They have a great USP - short charges with grapnel guns. Great for DS'ing onto the top floor, and making a 4"-or-so charge against a passing unit.

I would tempernthat with, it being roumered that GW maybe addressing this in the FAQ as it sounds like they didn't intend people to be able to get 2 inch charges out of deepstrike.


Boooo!

Good to know that GW are stamping on the only thing that makes Reivers vaguley good!
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




fatbudda319 wrote:
Thoughts on blood angels reivers? Would you stick with bolt guns or bolt pistols + ccwto make use of +1 to wound?


I still use the carbines. Because shooting is king in 8th.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

They make for decent backfield disruption and objective taking units. Superior to Assault Marines IMO. But not good.

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






They are pretty nifty with carbines. You can drop them in cover turn 2 on a hard to reach objective and they put out fair amounts of dakka and are hard to remove. Their best feature is really hard to use though - their ignore over watch grenade.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




About the overwatch grenade it's a d# attacks that's a lot of overwatch nullification from one unit to support another's charge.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I like to fit one squad into my lists. They're useful for backfield disruption. Either they have to be dealt with or they may tie up some tanks. They are also handy in negating overwatch before my vanguard vets charge in. They've never been superstars but I can't think of any games where I've thought they shouldn't have been there. I keep them cheap and infiltrate with sfs.
   
Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor





Reivers have one edge - the ability to get less than 9 inch charges using Grapnel launchers by deepstriking on elevated terrain

They perform best at extremely close range against medium infantry. If they can live long enough to get stuck in, they can jam up a horde, even T4 squads like Orks or other Marines.

The problem is that their knives are AP 0, one of the few models at that point cost that doesn't have access to at least AP-1. 4 attacks (1 pistol shot + 3 knife attacks) at AP0 isn't great. Compare this to intercessors, who get 1 Pistol and 2 melee attacks. You are sacrificing an entire bolt rifle and it's AP for a single extra attack. Compare it to a vanguard vet with a power weapon and the comparison gets downright depressing.

They work well in Kill team though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Suasponte67 wrote:
About the overwatch grenade it's a d# attacks that's a lot of overwatch nullification from one unit to support another's charge.


How often in games do you make a less than 6 inch charge with reivers?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/20 15:37:48


Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


https://www.victorwardbooks.com/ Home of Dark Days series 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 grouchoben wrote:
They have a great USP - short charges with grapnel guns. Great for DS'ing onto the top floor, and making a 4"-or-so charge against a passing unit.

Based on some stuff from Nova, I wouldn't count on them keeping that. It looks like the studio wants to make sure that units only ignore vertical distance in the movement phase.
   
Made in jp
Been Around the Block




Ice_can wrote:
 grouchoben wrote:
They have a great USP - short charges with grapnel guns. Great for DS'ing onto the top floor, and making a 4"-or-so charge against a passing unit.

I would tempernthat with, it being roumered that GW maybe addressing this in the FAQ as it sounds like they didn't intend people to be able to get 2 inch charges out of deepstrike.


Well they're going to have to fix it with Harlequins and their flip belts then as well.

 ChargerIIC wrote:


A bolter fires and a Necron succumbs. His corpse rises up as a poxwalker much to the horror of his comrades. Then, to everyone's surprise his corpse rises again as a fully functionality necron. The necron and the poxwalker stare at each other, both wondering which of them is the clone.
 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

I was having a discussion with my son this weekend on this topic.

We both agreed that getting them both the grapples and the grav was probably overkill.

I advocated grapples and knives. Come in from a board edge. There is probably something irritating camped up in a ruin that needs to be stabbed a few times. At the very least you tie them up.

He was partial to shoots and rifles. Partially because of looks, to be honest. But as I thought of it, he had a point. There are plenty of ways marines can DS assault troops. How many shooting units can we plop down? I was thinking about that random midfield objective off to the side. Drop down the reivers and take pot shots while you camp. Not a terrible use of points.

   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

Grav chutes and guns seem like the best combo for deep striking while staying cheap as you'll likely need to take grapple launchers too if you go for knives.

To keep knife builds cheap it seems better to skip the grav chutes and just take the launchers but then you have to cross the table to get to your targets.

So guns look like the best option. Basically treat them like deep striking Tactical Marines with 2 attacks and 2 wounds and a 2 shot assault weapon and they look pretty okay. A unit of 5 has 10 wounds but a smaller footprint so it's easier to sneak them into back lines to grab objectives or harass support characters too.
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Grav chutes and guns seem like the best combo for deep striking while staying cheap as you'll likely need to take grapple launchers too if you go for knives.

To keep knife builds cheap it seems better to skip the grav chutes and just take the launchers but then you have to cross the table to get to your targets.

So guns look like the best option. Basically treat them like deep striking Tactical Marines with 2 attacks and 2 wounds and a 2 shot assault weapon and they look pretty okay. A unit of 5 has 10 wounds but a smaller footprint so it's easier to sneak them into back lines to grab objectives or harass support characters too.


Bolding mine

If the squad has grapples, they can set up within 6” of a table edge. I don’t see a lot of need to be crossing the table to get to targets. Going with this for you deployment options means you take the role of backfield disruption. Between setting up 6” from the edge, then next turn’s move and charge, there is not going to be a lot of footslogging. If you are playing against an aggressive list that’s going to be in your deployment zone turn 2, no reason not to come on from your own edge.

   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 Nevelon wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Grav chutes and guns seem like the best combo for deep striking while staying cheap as you'll likely need to take grapple launchers too if you go for knives.

To keep knife builds cheap it seems better to skip the grav chutes and just take the launchers but then you have to cross the table to get to your targets.

So guns look like the best option. Basically treat them like deep striking Tactical Marines with 2 attacks and 2 wounds and a 2 shot assault weapon and they look pretty okay. A unit of 5 has 10 wounds but a smaller footprint so it's easier to sneak them into back lines to grab objectives or harass support characters too.


Bolding mine

If the squad has grapples, they can set up within 6” of a table edge. I don’t see a lot of need to be crossing the table to get to targets. Going with this for you deployment options means you take the role of backfield disruption. Between setting up 6” from the edge, then next turn’s move and charge, there is not going to be a lot of footslogging. If you are playing against an aggressive list that’s going to be in your deployment zone turn 2, no reason not to come on from your own edge.

Grapnels allow you to ignore vertical distances when moving, did I miss a deployment option for them that they get on top of that? If so I need to re-evaluate the melee option for backfield disruption.
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Grapnels allow you to ignore vertical distances when moving, did I miss a deployment option for them that they get on top of that? If so I need to re-evaluate the melee option for backfield disruption.


Grapnel Launchers wrote:When models with grapnel launchers move do not count any vertical distance they move against the total they can move that turn. In addition, during deployment you can set up this unit if it is equipped with grapnel launchers behing enemy lines instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the the end of your movement phase this unit can join the battle. Set it up within 6" of a battlefield edge of your choice and more than 9" away from any enemy models.


Rough copy/paste paraphrase, but the gist of the rule is there.

   
Made in au
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




Australia

I think the terror troops ability might be workable in conjuction with a Dark Angels jump pack librarian using mind wipe and the eye of the unseen relic.

I'd like to see if i could use it as a character hit squad.

No, the paper does not beat The Rock. 
   
Made in ca
Stalwart Tribune






Reivers make me sad. In my opinion, they're some of the coolest models space marines have gotten in a while, but rules wise they seems very lacking.

What makes this extra frustrating to me is that a few small changes is all it would take to make them usable.

Just give their sergeant access to the standard sergeant equipment list (tbh I think all primaris sergeants should), and maybe the option for melta bombs and they would be a super fun, playable unit.

Arguably, they should also get either grav chutes or grapnels for free, and have ap -1 on their combat blades, but that's debatable.

Bolt carbines also seem lacking. I'm not sure what they need, but ambushing a 100pt squad for 10 bolter shots doesn't exactly scare your opponent. Assault 3? But perhaps I'm asking for too much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/28 08:43:46



 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

I can't believe I missed that on Grapnel Launchers, but I probably just forgot. Either way it's my fault. Both Grapnel Launchers and Grav Chutes are worth 2 points each. The arguement is on taking one or the other or taking both to maximize your deployment options for competetive or TAC lists.

What isn't worth it's points is the Carbine. Having a look at it last night after getting back from my FLGS I thought I was going crazy. There is no way that is worth 15 points. It's the same statline as the Auto Bolt Rifle and yet is worth 14 more points. That's just a big nope.

I'd rather drop 100pts for a unit of 5 with both Grav Chutes and Grapnels and the arguably worse knife option (which is FREE) than pay nearly 30ppm just to run what is basically an Intercessor who can deep strike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GOOD NEWS EVERYBODY: GW didn't change Grapnel launchers to prevent us from benefiting from them on the charge. We can still 2" charge enemy units out of DS!

I'm perfectly okay with this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/28 15:36:24


 
   
 
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