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Unless a model can FLY, making a charge or fighting against a flyer with the Airborne rule is usually not allowed. However, I can't see anything to disallow a Heroic Intervention, Pile In, or Consolidation move. Of course no fighting would be allowed, but the flyer would need to fall back in the following turn.

I imagine that the rules writers didn't intend for this to happen, and I don't think it's realistic for infantry to be able to affect a flyer in that way, but I think this it is permitted with the rules as written. Can anybody see any reason why not?


Edit: I originally said that the flyer falling back would have a -1 to hit penalty when shooting in the following turn, but that was a mistake - I was confusing it with the Ultramarines fall back rule.

This is hilarious, and I for SURE will abuse this the next time I get the chance! Extra movement for characters is always appreciated, which is what this will almost always end up as.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least, until it gets FAQ'd away

Why would a flyer have -1 to shooting after falling back?

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why would a flyer have -1 to shooting after falling back?

It wouldn't (Unless it's firing Heavy weapons).

Also, thanks for a new entry to my signature.

Sure. But if it has (and cannot ignore the modifier) of heavy weapons, it would do so anyways after moving the minimum movement required for flyers.

If it was in some sort of hover mode, it would lose the airborne rule and could be charged and fought (and Heroically intervened on) by non-flying units just like any other skimmer.

All this time I've been thinking that a FLY model suffers a -1 to hit penalty when shooting after falling back, but I can't find it in the rules now. I think I have been confusing it with the Ultramarines fall back rule!

It's still a fun loophole for extra movement. Especially for something like super-slow Space Wolves Terminator Characters that only move 4" normally but suddenly ride the slipstream of a nearby supersonic Eldar Flyer for 6" HI towards an objective or something.

Super rare, but probably hilarious, if you can pull it off.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Also, thanks for a new entry to my signature.

You do know that there is a character limit to sigs right? Probably about half of those are not visible to the rest of us. The last one I can see is the "Tyrant Guard with lash whip can absorb...."
Which is suspect was a really long time ago. So everything you've added since then is cut off

Literally nothing for 2018 is showing. Just sayin'

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 Galef wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Also, thanks for a new entry to my signature.

You do know that there is a character limit to sigs right? Probably about half of those are not visible to the rest of us.
Just sayin'

It shows fully to me on a 1080p screen, which is what I assume the standard is. If you need a full list PMed I'd be happy to do so.

Yeah, I'm on a 1920 x 1080 res screen too. Nothing from 2018 is there.

I'm also curious how you can even put that much in your sig. Dakka won't give me even half that amount of characters
What is in my sig right now is close to max and I am not allowed anymore

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It's the BCB exception. Every rules forum has been pre-programmed with it since HTML's initial release in 1993.

(And yes, I can see the sig with the new addition )

Then it's probably something to do with my view settings on Dakka. All the same, I'll keep them as-is.
I don't want to see a page full of the same 100+ links every time I scroll past a BCB post. (no offense, that's just too excessive for me)

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I want to just point out that while you can HI, Pile in or Consolidate into an "Airborne" unit with a non-FLY unit, you still can't attack it. The only use this has is to force it to make a Fall Back move, thus denying it a (usually) 20" advance.

Well, free extra movement can also sometimes be useful, as pointed out already.

Another (very niche) application: if an airborne unit is likely to want to go to hover mode in the following turn to fire heavy weapons without penalty, this forces it to move anyway,

However, Skarbrand flat out kills flyers that can't hover after HI, because he has a rule that you can't fall back from combat with him. Which means, since a flyer cannot make its minimum move distance it is removed.

Maybe. But since you HI is in your opponent's turn and Skarbrand cannot actually smash the flyer, you'd be forced to have Skarbrand sitting there a full turn of yours, not doing anything, just to have the flyer roll that Ld check.

In most situations, you'd probably want to use Skarbrand for something in your turn.

Question would be, can Skarbrand consolidate into a Flyer after killing something else? Now we're talking.

 Yarium wrote:
At least, until it gets FAQ'd away

If it gets faq'ed out. After all we are talking about company that after a year+ hasn't faq'ed assault weapons to actually work RAW...

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Maybe. But since you HI is in your opponent's turn and Skarbrand cannot actually smash the flyer, you'd be forced to have Skarbrand sitting there a full turn of yours, not doing anything, just to have the flyer roll that Ld check.

In most situations, you'd probably want to use Skarbrand for something in your turn.

Question would be, can Skarbrand consolidate into a Flyer after killing something else? Now we're talking.

Consolidation doesn't count as a charge move. So i would say fair game.

Visually it looks funny as a kamikaze pilot see's Skarbrand and want to ram his plane into his face because of how angry the pilot got

tneva82 wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
At least, until it gets FAQ'd away

If it gets faq'ed out. After all we are talking about company that after a year+ hasn't faq'ed assault weapons to actually work RAW...

Because that’s not a legitimate issue... jussayin’. A few people bleat on about it online but no one actually has any issue understanding that rule in games. Stoppppp bringing stuff like that up... it’s been a whole year... make a blog or a sig if you need but that rule is honestly not an issue as written for any wargamer.

But it shows GW's attitude to the game. They don't automatically FAQ or errata things that needs to be FAQ'ed/errata'ed. Thus this can be left unanswered forever.

GW does not aim for clean, logical and balanced rules. Never have, never will. Expecting any of those from GW is just smoking pipe.

And my point is it doesn’t need to be. Even anyone bringing it up as an ‘issue’ admits the intent is abundantly clear and it’s therefore playable. No patch needed.

 Yarium wrote:
It's the BCB exception.

Don't you mean...the Special Snowflake BCB exception?

 Marmatag wrote:
However, Skarbrand flat out kills flyers that can't hover after HI, because he has a rule that you can't fall back from combat with him. Which means, since a flyer cannot make its minimum move distance it is removed.

So...wait... are you saying that DE wyches (troopers) can consolidate/pile-in (Succubus can HI) an Airborn unit? They have a rule that you roll off whether you can fall back or not.

Damn, that's one way to destroy Airborne units that cannot hover! Although, highly situational as you'd need a legal target to charge into in the first place that's within consolidate/pile-in/HI range.

 whembly wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
However, Skarbrand flat out kills flyers that can't hover after HI, because he has a rule that you can't fall back from combat with him. Which means, since a flyer cannot make its minimum move distance it is removed.

So...wait... are you saying that DE wyches (troopers) can consolidate/pile-in (Succubus can HI) an Airborn unit? They have a rule that you roll off whether you can fall back or not.

Damn, that's one way to destroy Airborne units that cannot hover! Although, highly situational as you'd need a legal target to charge into in the first place that's within consolidate/pile-in/HI range.

That only works against INFANTRY keyworded units IIRC. I don't think there are any that are also pure fliers.

Sterling191 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
However, Skarbrand flat out kills flyers that can't hover after HI, because he has a rule that you can't fall back from combat with him. Which means, since a flyer cannot make its minimum move distance it is removed.

So...wait... are you saying that DE wyches (troopers) can consolidate/pile-in (Succubus can HI) an Airborn unit? They have a rule that you roll off whether you can fall back or not.

Damn, that's one way to destroy Airborne units that cannot hover! Although, highly situational as you'd need a legal target to charge into in the first place that's within consolidate/pile-in/HI range.

That only works against INFANTRY keyworded units IIRC. I don't think there are any that are also pure fliers.

Bah... you are correct.

I mean this is potentially devastating as the flyer could be placed 1.1" behind a unit your charging in the follwing charge phase and the models closer to the plane than your charging models would be denied the ability to pile in and fight.

Sterling191 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
However, Skarbrand flat out kills flyers that can't hover after HI, because he has a rule that you can't fall back from combat with him. Which means, since a flyer cannot make its minimum move distance it is removed.

So...wait... are you saying that DE wyches (troopers) can consolidate/pile-in (Succubus can HI) an Airborn unit? They have a rule that you roll off whether you can fall back or not.

Damn, that's one way to destroy Airborne units that cannot hover! Although, highly situational as you'd need a legal target to charge into in the first place that's within consolidate/pile-in/HI range.

That only works against INFANTRY keyworded units IIRC. I don't think there are any that are also pure fliers.

You know what doesn't have such a restriction?

Skarbrand and Fiends of Slaanesh.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I want to just point out that while you can HI, Pile in or Consolidate into an "Airborne" unit with a non-FLY unit, you still can't attack it. The only use this has is to force it to make a Fall Back move, thus denying it a (usually) 20" advance.

The only use? You obviously lack creativity.

The next time a hemlock gets too close to my characters I will pull a heroic intervention on them, and then charge my DP into it without suffering the deadly overwatch from their flamers.

 Hades wrote:
I mean this is potentially devastating as the flyer could be placed 1.1" behind a unit your charging in the follwing charge phase and the models closer to the plane than your charging models would be denied the ability to pile in and fight.

I mean, they could still Pile in, they just wouldn't be able to fight. And if they choose to Pile in, they'd have to do so AWAY from your charging unit.
You could use this to mitigate how many enemy models could fight back after you charge them, although it's probably a bit situational as they can simply remove casualties that are closer to your Flyer.

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weaver9 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
However, Skarbrand flat out kills flyers that can't hover after HI, because he has a rule that you can't fall back from combat with him. Which means, since a flyer cannot make its minimum move distance it is removed.

So...wait... are you saying that DE wyches (troopers) can consolidate/pile-in (Succubus can HI) an Airborn unit? They have a rule that you roll off whether you can fall back or not.

Damn, that's one way to destroy Airborne units that cannot hover! Although, highly situational as you'd need a legal target to charge into in the first place that's within consolidate/pile-in/HI range.

That only works against INFANTRY keyworded units IIRC. I don't think there are any that are also pure fliers.

You know what doesn't have such a restriction?

Skarbrand and Fiends of Slaanesh.

No, but Fiends don't affect units with FLY.