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Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

I'd just like a calcification here:

You guys do want people taking these subjects ELSEWHERE right?

So please, stop deleting my posts trying to get the to go ELSEWHERE if you don't want them posting it HERE. If they all understand that there is an alternative site where the stuff dakka does not allow can be discussed, they're not going to post it here.

Tell you what: Give me a list of all the subjects you don't want people discussing here, we'll make threads and link each subject to the correct thread on Wasteland and you can sticky it someplace with a name like 'FORBIDDEN SUBJECT MATTER' or something.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/16 15:59:31



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

It's not complicated.

You posted a link that lead directly to a post that listed recasting sites (and not even good ones.)

Do you really need that joined up for you?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/16 03:40:47


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Azreal13 wrote:
It's not complicated.

You posted a link that lead directly to a post that listed recasting sites (and not even good ones.)

Do you really need that joined up for you?


Yes, threads discussing recasters will have that. You know, that being the subject of the thread, Remember,the Wasteland does not indulge in the sort of safezone doublethink that some posters here on daka prefer. A thread about a subject is about that subject, not a sanitized edition.

Personally, I think we should have a stickied thread here in dakka that links to every subject the mods here do not like, and a thread on the Wasteland on that subject, so the mods don't, in theory, have to deal with it here.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/16 04:39:30



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 BaronIveagh wrote:

You guys do want people taking these subjects ELSEWHERE right?

Not really, no. What we want is for posters to abide by the rules of this site. Whether or not they choose to take discussion that isn't allowed here to some other venue is nothing to do with us.

 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 insaniak wrote:

Not really, no. What we want is for posters to abide by the rules of this site. Whether or not they choose to take discussion that isn't allowed here to some other venue is nothing to do with us.






I'm trying to parse my response in a Rule 1 Friendly manner.

Which of these makes more sense?

1) Suggest an appropriate venue for a discussion.

or

2) Play Moderation Whack-a-mole with subjects that recur frequently. (FSM/Recasting/Politics/etc.)

I'm sure that all the mods will love to bust their asses indefinitely, but it seems like a better solution to a problem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/16 05:00:08



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Which makes more sense depends on the situation. We're not going to suggest alternate venues to discuss recasting for the exact same reasons we don't allow that discussion here.

As for politics, the links were provided when the change was put in place. The need for them will reduce significantly as people get used to the fact that we just don't have that discussion here. A sticky directing people elsewhere would accomplish very little, not least because people just don't read stickies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/16 05:49:31


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 insaniak wrote:
The need for them will reduce significantly as people get used to the fact that we just don't have that discussion here


Yeah, because that worked so well last time...


Look, bury your head in the sand if you like, but without a proactive stance, offering solutions over punishment, you will NEVER get the desired outcome.

And I've found that making interesting sticky titles does, in fact, get people to read it.




Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

You seem to be working under some misapprehensions, here.


What currently happens is that someone occasionally posts a recasting thread, we lock it, remove it or guide it onto a safer tack, and everyone moves on with their lives. Punishment is rarely involved.

This policy has been working adequately for nearly 20 years now, so I'm not sure what has led you to believe there is some sort of crisis that needs to be dealt with now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/16 06:26:03


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 insaniak wrote:


This policy has been working adequately for nearly 20 years now, so I'm not sure what has led you to believe there is some sort of crisis that needs to be dealt with now.


Because the policy hasn't worked? OT's politics ban for example has left and come back what, twice? Three times? That suggests that it didn't work, and repeating the same mistakes will only lead to it not working again.

Or were you talking about the recasting thing? Because that I can only point to GW's mass unreleases and price hikes, claiming conversion rates that don't match up to actual currency conversion rates. Which takes it from 'Greed' to 'Fraud' last I checked. I'm waiting for them to make the claim they don't do business in the US and are not subject to US financial regulation.

I hate to put it this way, but Dakka's Rules are not keeping pace with events in the hobby it is a website for. 20 years ago, for example, I couldn't buy a 3d printer, put it in my basement and churn out better quality minis than FW. Claiming that the policy is old, and therefore right underlines the issue. We're in a hobby that is rapidly changing atm, and not in directions anyone necessarily likes.

To not talk about the subjects surrounding this, and bury our heads in the sand and hope it all goes back to the way it was before, doesn't strike me as a good idea. If Dakka wants to cling to past policies, then the smart thing to do is to send them elsewhere and avoid the problem.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/16 07:12:13



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

As with subdividing forum sections, moderation policy is reviewed if and when there is a demonstrable issue. The fact that the current policy has old isn't what makes it right. The fact that it has been, and still is working just fine is what makes it right.

If the board starts to see an huge increase in posts about recasting, that's when we would look at whether how we deal with them needs to change... But even then, policy is unlikely to change to allow links to illegal recasts.

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

BaronIveagh so your argument on recasting is because its easier than before its ok to illegally recast models and also distribute them to other people? Something being easier (or you just being more aware of it than you were 20 years ago) doesn't make it any less illegal nor damaging to the hobby in general. So that doesn't really make any better a claim for allowing recasting threads and links. Also you seem to say that the hobby and market is going to a bad place and that the best thing Dakka can do is embrace that change and help it along - which just sounds like all kinds of wrong thinking.



As for policies coming on and off like politics that surely tells you that its something that has been banned and allowed due to shifting attitudes over 20 years and a desire from the staff not to deny something; but which in practice often results in more issues and problems than is desireable on a site built around wargaming not around political discussion (people seriously put out by that can go to politics forums there are LOADS online).



Also where should mods stop if they were to enact a policy of redirection for all banned topics. There's loads of Warhammer porn out there on the net so should mods also provide links to porn sites to allow those who want to discuss warhammer porn to go somewhere else? In the end if someone wants to chat about something not allowed on a forum its up to that person to find the resource and other site to chat about it themselves, its not on mods to have to find other places for everything unless there's good reason - eg the recent politics change opened a window for short term posting of a link offsite.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Overread wrote:
BaronIveagh so your argument on recasting is because its easier than before its ok to illegally recast models and also distribute them to other people? Something being easier (or you just being more aware of it than you were 20 years ago) doesn't make it any less illegal nor damaging to the hobby in general. So that doesn't really make any better a claim for allowing recasting threads and links. Also you seem to say that the hobby and market is going to a bad place and that the best thing Dakka can do is embrace that change and help it along - which just sounds like all kinds of wrong thinking.


My point is refusing to discuss it at all is a bad approach to the issue. And I hold at this point that recasters do server a legitimate purpose in this hobby, as the only actual check on GW's rampant price gouging. But that's a discussion we can't actually have on Dakka. Do you see the issue?

 Overread wrote:

Also where should mods stop if they were to enact a policy of redirection for all banned topics. There's loads of Warhammer porn out there on the net so should mods also provide links to porn sites to allow those who want to discuss warhammer porn to go somewhere else?


You might have missed it, but they DID do that. Hell, I pointed it out when they did it, but no one complained about it, so, hey, yeah, I don't see where you have a point here at this point.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in ca
Junior Officer with Laspistol





London, Ontario

In case you’ve missed it, Baron, you’ve been directly told that your opinion on the matter doesn’t matter.

You’ve been asked to stop doing what you were doing.

Big-boy pants time. Put them on. You’re getting case by case feedback. Make mistakes, learn from them. Gain experience points. Gain levels. Become a level 70 poster. Reap the glory of grinding your way to the top.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 BaronIveagh wrote:


My point is refusing to discuss it at all is a bad approach to the issue. And I hold at this point that recasters do server a legitimate purpose in this hobby, as the only actual check on GW's rampant price gouging. But that's a discussion we can't actually have on Dakka. Do you see the issue?


Dakka isn't the only wargame site on the net and, with FB, likely not even the biggest community. It's also not GW's home nor the home of any other wargame company that might suffer from recaster problems. So in truth you don't NEED to speak about it here. There are other platforms where it can be undertaken.

Furthermore as long as recasting remains an illegal practice it will continue to remain an issue rather than "the norm".




As to your point about serving a legitimate purpose I can't help but totally disagree. A recaster only has to invest in the purchase of one model on its sprue and the tools to recast. They invest nothing in design, marketing, packaging, lore, rules, website, community etc.... So yeah their prices can be much lower, of course they can, they are operating with VASTLY reduced overhead and almost no product development or initial production costs. They don't even have to mess with designing the sprue or parting the model.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Recasting sites are something the site owners specifically do not allow the posting of links to, threads condoning or propagating the practice, etc.

It's not that you can't discuss it, but it is illegal and the site owners have been very specific that promoting it is not allowed.

As a forum for discussing miniatures and wargames, this makes sense - what manufacturers would want to post up about their stuff in N&R, for example, if we allowed folks to post in those same threads directing others to buy illeagal copies of their creations?

There are ways to make use of casting in a way that is legal and doesn't violate site rules to talk about, but that's not what you were doing here. I have a friend local to me that is an excellent caster, and he could post on here about all those excellent uses of it, but not to promote selling of copies of limited edition Kingdom Death miniatures, for instance.

I've also updated the title of the thread to reflect what we're talking about. We did allow the posting of links to alternate politics threads (I even reposted those links myself, for better or worse!) but links to recasting resources will never be allowed on Dakka, just as resources for most illegal things would not be (such as pirated book / movie resources), or even legal things like pornography.

This has been the case for as long as the site has functioned, and will always be the case unless the site owners decide to make a change. As a result I'm going to lock this thread, if I've missed something and it merits re-opening just PM me.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/09/16 16:09:24


 
   
 
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