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A little backstory here...

Some years ago I met up with a friend at a bar and he was a talker and typically by the time I got anywhere to meet him, he already knew all the strangers. This night was no different and he introduced me to this guy next to us named Jethro. Jethro and I shared some stories over beers, and he told me how when he was younger he hitch-hiked all over the US for 2 years. I thought it was badass. I mentioned how there was no way I could do something reckless like that (even though I was reckless as hell in many other ways), let alone find the time. I told him how there was a bunch of things I wanted to do in regards to exploring but I was having a hard time getting myself to do it. He replied, "Well, it sounds like the only thing holding yourself back is you."

And I never forgot that. Jethro and I only talked for an hour or so, but he had a profound impact on my life.

It wasn't long after that that I turned in my 3rd Mustang (a Mach 1 I nicknamed The Beast) for a Ford Explorer. There were a number of reasons why I went with an SUV, mostly because I was buying a house and would need the extra room to carry the things I would have to buy. But one of the benefits was I now actually had a comfortable vehicle for road trips. I love camping but obviously with a mustang I couldn't pack a lot, so this meant I could go farther and carry more.

As you know, getting friends in sync to do something can be a pain in the ass, and at the time, my group of friends was huge. A trip to Key West or Savannah might involve some 30-50 people. Camping trips to Coya Costa would be similar. We had smaller outings too, like canoeing down Peace River for a couple of nights. But then one day I had a week of vaca coming up in Spring and decided to use it to go up to the Carolinas and Tennessee. Given I was gone in the middle of the week I just figured it was pointless to try and get someone else to go, but after thinking about what Jethro said, I just packed up my explorer with whatever gear I thought I would need and went. By myself.

I will never forget that trip. I was nothing short of awesome. The independence, the exploring, waking up and not having a clue to where I would go next. Finding an awesome spot and deciding to stay longer than I planned. Actually, there wasn't much of a plan. I would just wake up in the morning, judge how far I could get in a day over breakfast, and go. I discovered some of the best secrets in the east, like Devil's Fork, SC. Or coming across a big Black Bear on a trail in Tennessee all by myself. We just stood in front of each other for a few minutes, before he walked off the trail and into the woods. It was the first time I had seen a bear in the wild. What did I do? I marched right back to my car, drove to Gatlinburg, and got the most expensive steak I could find to celebrate.

I hit marked trails, unmarked trails. I slept in a tent, sometimes in the back of my SUV, I wish I could post pics of my set up, but I laid a sleeping bag in the back so if I couldn't make it to a campground, at least I could sleep in my car. Sometimes this meant sleeping in the parking lot in some random town. I could do that because I didn't bring a girlfriend. God knows if I did, I would have to shack up in a hotel every night. The only money I was spending was on gas. When I needed a shower I jumped in a river.

I also had a collapsible hammock I loved to use too. And the great thing about going to campgrounds during the week is that there are fewer people then than on the weekends. When I stumbled on Pigsah Campround in NC, I pretty much had the park to myself, and spent an extra day just laying in my hammock staring at the blue sky through the trees. I initially brought my mountain bike too, but stopped doing that.

What I found was, that in absence of other people, that I didn't have to negotiate. There was no asking, "hey what do you guys want to do?" or being disappointed when everyone else wanted to do something different than me. I went where I wanted, I stayed however long I wanted, and I never had to compromise. My friends thought I was crazy but I felt it was empowering. Sure there were times when I saw something and wished someone else was there to see it too, but it didn't change the way I felt about the whole idea. And there have been times when I have taken others back to places I first went to alone. The US is such a beautiful country and the best way to see it is by car, through the small towns, away from the interstates.

One evening just before sunset I was at Clingman's Dome in the Smokey Mountains and some old guy asked me if I knew where I was sleeping next. I was totally freaked out inside. How did he know what I was doing? I didn't remember him around my car, but maybe he had seen all my stuff and figured out what I was doing since I was alone. He told me, "I used to do the same thing. And whenever I couldn't find a place to stay, I would sleep in my car at churches. I felt safer parked at them than at most other places." It wasn't until later did I realize I should have shared stories with him rather than be defensive, and I actually followed his advice a few times after.

I did about a dozen of these trips until I bought a house and got dogs and more responsibilities and now it just too hard to 'go' like I used to. I look back on those memories and the pics on my phone that I have carried since then, and are so glad I did it. Some of my best times of my life. I have taken my gf to a few of the places I visited and she loved them. And I wouldn't know them had I not gotten off the main roads and explored.

And some of you might think it was crazy giving up a sports car for an SUV, but honestly, I have had more fun in my Explorer than I did in my three mustangs combined.

ANYWAY... the point of all this is that I recently found out that A LOT of people have gone missing in National Parks in the US, and since I was in similar situations as some of the people that have gone missing. I researched it some. I was always conscientious of when I was hiking alone that I could slip and fall and no one would know where the hell I was. I couldn't tell people where I would be, because I had no idea where I was going. Many times I didn't even have cellphone coverage. If there is ever a show on wilderness survival, I have watched it. I am fascinated with explores and especially failed expeditions: Dyatlov Pass, Robert Scott, Percy Fawcett, etc. Even though I rarely had a plan, I still felt like I was prepared. I think that's the problem with most who run into issues: they are not. For awhile my friends referred to me as that guy (Christopher McCandless) from the movie Into the Wild, and I had no idea what they were talking about. I was actually offended when I finally saw the film because I felt he was flat out reckless, where I felt I was far more thoughtful and prepared. But still gak happens.

So, if you do this sort of thing, check this out: https://www.outsideonline.com/2164446/leave-no-trace

Spooky.

I skimmed the filler and went straight to "ANYWAY". Thought there'd be a joke at the end after almost reading all that.

I got into this sort of thing about a year or two ago, after reading the Missing 411 book and then watching the documentary and researching it further on various podcasts and such.

If memory serves, most of the cases in that particular documentary involved kids, and parents underestimating how easy it is to lose sight of their children and how fast a kid can move in the forest, often times faster than a grown adult. Children also present easier targets to animal predators. There were a few that looked like foul play on the part of the families, as well.

Even adults can underestimate how easy it is to get lost, and since no one in their right mind plans to get lost, they usually aren't prepared for the elements/hardships of days and nights in the wild. It seems counter intuitive because you are surrounded by copious amounts of life, but to an untrained individual, most particularly a child, a forest can be as inhospitable as a desert. I think the author of Lost City of Z called the jungles in that book a "Green Desert". Granted, the jungles in South America are much more dangerous than the forests of North America, but when dealing with small children, it might as well be the same. Add an injury or a pre-existing medical condition, it can be fatal, fast.

We like to think that we've conquered our forests, and that they are just large playgrounds, but they are still dangerous. Less so than back in the day, but still dangerous.

I lost interest in these sorts of things because most of the proponents of the "Park Missing" fall into, or skirt very close to the line, of conspiracy theories "Why won't the government track the numbers? What are they hiding?" or go the cryptozoology route of "Its Bigfoot!" Folks just don't understand how easy it is to get lost and how hard it is to find people, even with experienced search parties. A missing child is scared and cold, he might crawl somewhere an adult won't think to look, for example.

I mean, the missing cases are scary and sad, don't get me wrong. But to me, not as scary and sad as the people going missing in regular neighborhoods and cities every day.

National Parks are big and dangerous. Even in the U.K., where we’ve long since killed and/or scoffed the biggest and dangerous wildlife.

It really doesn’t take long to die of exposure, so large numbers of missing aren’t much to worry about.

One aspect many neglect to realise is that even if one grows up in the "countryside" as opposed to the middle of a big urban area; the modern life does little to prepare many for actual life in the wilds away from technology and street signs.

Even the most basic of survival methods are alien to most people because its just nothing that their life really requires of them, so its very easy for them to overlook key understandings in being in the wild because they are so ignorant that they don't even know the things to ask questions about (so even googling won't necessarily help them!)

Plus some areas of technology keep removing a need for basic skills. Take matches, most people can just about start a fire if they've got paper and matches (or lighter); take those away and give them nothing but flint and natural resources can they can be totally stumped. They know it "can" work but they've no idea how to make it work.

Another one is map reading. Most people can't easily read a map and many can't take a bearing. If left with map and compass they'd be totally lost how to properly read the map and to use the compass to find out where they are. It's actually getting to be worse now because many are used to entering a post code and letting google/satnav tell them were to drive.

It’s not a shock that people get lost to me. Your 9 largest national parks are all larger than Wales, your two largest put together are bigger than England and it only takes the combined area of your top 4 to be bigger than the whole of the UK. Your national parks are bigger than a lot of countries. They are fething huge.

Your second largest national park is over half the size of England, and bigger than Scotland and Wales combined and has no roads at all. Those are countries we consider to have very wild, remote places, multiple big cities, industrial and post industrial landscapes and you have 2 parks bigger than both of them, one with no roads at all...

Well, its not just the size of them, but where they are located too. To quote the article:

Numbers aside, it matters tremen­dously where you happen to disappear. If you vanish in a ­municipality, the local police department is likely to look for you. The police can obtain ­assistance from the county sheriff or, in other cases, state police or university law enforcement. If foul play is ­suspected, your state’s bureau of investigation can ­decide to get involved. Atop that is the FBI. With the exception of the sheriff, however, these ­organizations don’t tend to go rifling through the woods unless your case turns into a criminal one. 
But all those bets are off when you disappear in the wild. While big national parks like Yosemite operate almost as sovereign states, with their own crack search and rescue teams, go missing in most western states and, with the exception of New Mexico and Alaska, statutes that date back to the Old West stipulate that you’re now the responsibility of the county sheriff.

Chances are, the country sheriff is barely getting by on what resources he has.

Working in the desert and some BLM land (i.e. national land which isn't a national park more or less) we used to frequently get emergency calls from distressed parties who were lost/dehydrated, etc. You'd be shocked at how incapable 90% of these callers were at giving us any viable information to help them get to safety or help us locate where they were.

General inability to identify landmarks, to remember passing under power lines, inability to determine compass headings (even vaguely), no idea on timing, unable to guide off specific mountain peaks, inability to determine any kind of footsign, etc. There were times we'd find the parties dead because they simply couldn't give us any worthwhile information to help find them. Pretty infuriating. It wasn't difficult stuff either.

Yeah I am always amazed when people can't tell me which direction north is.

Thing is its skills people just don't need in most modern daily life. North, south east and west aren't needed on your sat nav, your train route nor your car. In general its background information that is easily forgotten and overlooked.

Plus situational awareness is a skill, again, if you have no reason to naturally log which way you are going chances are one will overlook a lot of details.

Now granted some people are more observant than others and some appear totally clueless or are clued into stuff way different. And that's before you add panic and stress and then health issues (dehydration) into the mix.

It's one reason I wish things like Duke of Edinbourgh, Scouts, Brownies etc.. were more mainstream and actually a normal part of education, not just an optional side element. Sadly the first 18 odd years of most peoples school life is pretty much totally focused on human aspects of life. Even natural studies are often focused around human land use (farming) etc... The natural world is an optional element that most people learn only if they are personally inspired to and/or if their parents are.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zn8nnw/theres-a-50-square-mile-section-of-yellowstone-where-you-can-get-away-with-murder

And that's discounting the dangers of man. It is a very wise precaution to log an expected stay with a park ranger, or the police near where you're exploring. Even if it's just I'll be back in 3 days, I'm going up that road.

It is quite dangerous to share your sleeping location with some rando you met on the road when you're going to be all by your lonesome. Where you've been? Sure. And make sure to tell them someone's waiting for you or expecting you. But not where you're sleeping that night.

^^^ Always file a flight plan, tell someone where you are going and when you are expected back.

It's the least you could do considering if your friend was going on an adventure you'd like to be informed prior to departure eh

Great thread, i worked in orchards picking fruit for several seasons and the honour system is in place ...

Usually there is little between you and unseen wilderness than a mere piece of fabric cloth with a zipper to keep it shut overnight

AND THERE IS ALSO THE WENDIGOS TO THINK ABOUT.

Just watched something on them. Now I feel even luckier.

Mind posting the title?

They're such an underused monster.

Check Geek Media I just started a thread called Bedtime Stories.

Actually Mothman and Grinning Man will do nicely too.

They are a bit pricy, but if I ever get into even half-serious backpacking I will get one of these things:

https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/personal-locator-beacons.html

 d-usa wrote:
They are a bit pricy, but if I ever get into even half-serious backpacking I will get one of these things:

https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/personal-locator-beacons.html

Delicately put, if you are going anywhere slightly sketchy then get an epurb and register it. If you don't you are a moron.

Edit; for everyone going "Oh I am a real hardcore weekend warrior and can survive in the bush of Zimbabwe with only flint and tinder;" No. Just no. Think of the team of poor buggers who have to give up their weekends to hike into the bush/mountains/swamps to rescue your ass just because you failed, with out a beacon they take three-four times they needed to find you, or you die. Or you spend a little money and insure you get a helicopter ride. Use your brain.

Edit, Edit; For anyone thinking I was a little harsh I just had the pleasure of spending a few hours in the bush to drag a corpse out of some bloke who was too hardcore to need a beacon, I also had had the delight as team leader to tell his Mrs and three kids that daddy was so fething hardcore he ddint need a beacon and his corpse was rotting forty meters away from the fething track but its all good because he was fething hardcore.

 d-usa wrote:
They are a bit pricy, but if I ever get into even half-serious backpacking I will get one of these things:

https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/personal-locator-beacons.html

That is a great idea!

As a teenager I went backpacking with a relative, who brought all the gear and organized it. We set up a small tent on a ridge, went what I thought was just a stone's throw away to get water from a stream... and ended up totally lost, but now without most of our gear!

Thankfully, because we'd set up camp on a ridge we were able to just set out till we hit it, then walk along it. Without that, and it being late afternoon, it would've been a really rough night and potentially pretty dangerous after that...

So yeah, good call on the beacon d-usu!

 ingtaer wrote:

Edit, Edit; For anyone thinking I was a little harsh I just had the pleasure of spending a few hours in the bush to drag a corpse out of some bloke who was too hardcore to need a beacon, I also had had the delight as team leader to tell his Mrs and three kids that daddy was so fething hardcore he ddint need a beacon and his corpse was rotting forty meters away from the fething track but its all good because he was fething hardcore.

If you don't mind me asking... where was this? Was this in a public park, or in the outback? I just got done reading up on the two Dutch girls who went missing in Panama

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-lost-girls-of-panama-the-camera-the-jungle-and-the-bones

But now they are thinking foul play may have been involved.

But there are some places in the US, like in Utah, where people have died within a relatively short distance from their cars, simply unprepared for the heat and not having enough water, and becoming disoriented. I imagine that happens a lot in the Outback.

Then there's the Dyatlov Pass incident in U.S.S.R. : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident

Also, for related silliness --- do some research into the increase in meth labs and criminal institutes taking up residence in national parks (because of the remote nature and unlikely chance they'll be found/hidden).

So that also means if you're out backpacking ot trekking you may well be passing or intruding on a beautiful number of criminal enterprises...

So, that's...fun.

 Overread wrote:
One aspect many neglect to realise is that even if one grows up in the "countryside" as opposed to the middle of a big urban area; the modern life does little to prepare many for actual life in the wilds away from technology and street signs.

Ain't that the truth.

I don't consider myself particularly outdoorsy, but then I read a comment like Grotsnik's describing our national parks as "big and dangerous" and realise, relatively speaking, I'm Bear fething Grylls.

I grew up in the countryside proper, hunting, shooting, horse riding, farming etc. I always find it amusing when people bang on about their love of the countryside when what they really mean is walking around a pond in a field on a nicely gravelled footpath,when to me it's battling through brambles in the pissing rain in the middle of October while trying not to step in gak or fall in a hole!

You ever watch any of those reality shows based around hypothetical apocalypse events? (They did a two season run called "The Colony" etc.). The best prepared people are always "rednecks" or less-affluent handy men who grew up in poor situations. This is not a knock on their financial status at all, just a genuine observation. They'll be the only survivors when the world falls apart.

They hunt, fish, fix cars, install drywall, etc. Everything you actually need.

 KTG17 wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:

Edit, Edit; For anyone thinking I was a little harsh I just had the pleasure of spending a few hours in the bush to drag a corpse out of some bloke who was too hardcore to need a beacon, I also had had the delight as team leader to tell his Mrs and three kids that daddy was so fething hardcore he ddint need a beacon and his corpse was rotting forty meters away from the fething track but its all good because he was fething hardcore.

If you don't mind me asking... where was this? Was this in a public park, or in the outback? I just got done reading up on the two Dutch girls who went missing in Panama

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-lost-girls-of-panama-the-camera-the-jungle-and-the-bones

But now they are thinking foul play may have been involved.

But there are some places in the US, like in Utah, where people have died within a relatively short distance from their cars, simply unprepared for the heat and not having enough water, and becoming disoriented. I imagine that happens a lot in the Outback.

Tararua National Park, its can be pretty rugged in places but its not that extreme. We don't have anything like the Outback round here (I am in NZ not OZ) what we have lots of is bush, visibility can be down to two or three metres and it is really easy to get yourself turned around and loose your direction and as it tends to be a very tight canopy getting a sighting on the sun can prove tricky sometimes (presupposing that people know how to navigate and its amazing how many don't). Water is very plentiful if one is in the valleys but dehydration is often a problem, this persons issue was a compound leg fracture and with blood loss/shock you need help pretty quickly.
This is a pretty good idea of what the bush looks like;


We also get lots of illegal activity round here as we are so near the capital but most of it is weed plantations as stills are legal and people only seem to make meth in their own houses...

Reminds me of another thing - walking in a straight line is HARD if you have no target to walk toward. If blindfolded people will naturally walk in a circle and if you've no long distance target (ergo lost in the bush) then it can have the same effect. There's theories about why this is from the rotation of the earth to arguments that its an evolved feature so that if you are lost you continue to circle the same area and thus increase your chances of being found.

I also seem to recall reading a bit by a rescue worker about the difficulties between saving adults and children and one point they raised is that children, whilst smaller and easier to hide, will often remain within a very small area when lost. Meanwhile adults will often move over quite long distances - which if they've no idea how to navigate, means that they can very quickly leave their original area where they were last known/thought to be and end up miles away (thus making it far harder to locate them).

Yeah that's very true its also a natural tendency for people to walk down hill (quicker, easier more sense of progress) which around here can be the worst thing to do as most ridge tops tend to be quite clear of brush and scrub so it makes one more visible and much easier to extract by air, where as most of the valley floors are boggy and very thick bush so even with a beacon it can be a right pain in the ass to find some and sometimes air hoisting isn't even feasible.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
One aspect many neglect to realise is that even if one grows up in the "countryside" as opposed to the middle of a big urban area; the modern life does little to prepare many for actual life in the wilds away from technology and street signs.

Ain't that the truth.

I don't consider myself particularly outdoorsy, but then I read a comment like Grotsnik's describing our national parks as "big and dangerous" and realise, relatively speaking, I'm Bear fething Grylls.

I grew up in the countryside proper, hunting, shooting, horse riding, farming etc. I always find it amusing when people bang on about their love of the countryside when what they really mean is walking around a pond in a field on a nicely gravelled footpath,when to me it's battling through brambles in the pissing rain in the middle of October while trying not to step in gak or fall in a hole!

don't forget the invisible radio-active gas

Well, as someone who has worked for the park service, I can tell you we get numbers on murders and suicides every month. They're higher numbers than you'd think. For suicides, particularly, national parks are one of the most popular places to do it.

It doesn't speak to people who just go 'missing' (because you can't be part of a statistic if it isn't provable), but even in some of eastern parks there are places to go where you aren't going to be found by normal visitors or even staff.

But on the other hand, there are a lot of large tracts of private land (pasture and grazing land) that are easy to get ' lost ' in, particularly out west.

Voss wrote:
For suicides, particularly, national parks are one of the most popular places to do it.

Its the same here, most of them tend to be hunters who go bush to eat their gun but the suicide rate in this country is a national disgrace. Thankfully though we dont have anything like that place in Japan, that is some really sketchy stuff.

Being in the UK I think one thing that can surprise people is the vastness of untouched land when visiting other countries. In the UK in a lot of regions you can walk in a straight line and most of the time you will encounter some kind of human influence on the land. Be it buildings, trackways, roads, farms etc... Ergo if you get lost it is possible to find your way back to at least some form of civilization. Of course exposure, walking into dangerous terrain, mountainsides, injury, getting trapped etc... are all still a risk.

However its very different to places like the USA where you could choose the wrong direction and walk for days and days without seeing any human habitation, not even trackways.

Here in the Netherlands it is worse than in the UK. It is probably impossible to find a place here from which you can't see any sign of Human habitation. No need to walk to find it, it just always there. This is one of the most densely populated places on the entire world.
Russia on the other hand, is the extreme on the other side of the spectrum. It makes the US look densely populated. And that is before you head into Siberia...
I think the US is a nice middle ground. Enough empty space to get lost in, but also enough people that someone can show up to rescue/find you if you get lost.
Anyways, from my experience hiking in the mountains, it is baffling how unprepared many people that decide to do it are. For God's sake, last year there were even people on flip flops...
I don't envy the people that have to rescue such idiots.