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Does Matt Ward have a fetish with this guy or something? Because he appears in so many battles against both the Ultramarines and the Grey Knights, some of which widely contradict one another. M'kar battles Kaldor Draigo, Calgar, Memphiston and even Cato Sicarius, only to lose every time. Couldn't GW come up with another Daemon Prince's name instead?

I first learned about M'kar in the novel The Chapter's Due, so I was under the impression M'kar only has quarrel with the Ultramarines because he was a Word Bearer who fought against them on Calth during the Horus Heresy. The Ultramarines bound M'kar on the Indomitable which during or right before the 13th Black Crusade the Iron Warriors under Honsou free him, which makes several events M'kar takes part in impossible unless there are imposters out there.

I for once is glad he is permanently dead, so at least GW won't be bringing him back to get has butt whooped again. But seriously, what is the deal with this guy that made him so popular despite no longer having a model (he has rules back in old editions, if I remember correctly).

M'kar was a pure Matt Ward creation as I understand it. the best thing future writers could do is change the deamon who fought dragio to a differant one

bibotot wrote:
Does Matt Ward have a fetish with this guy or something? Because he appears in so many battles against both the Ultramarines and the Grey Knights, some of which widely contradict one another. M'kar battles Kaldor Draigo, Calgar, Memphiston and even Cato Sicarius, only to lose every time. Couldn't GW come up with another Daemon Prince's name instead?

I first learned about M'kar in the novel The Chapter's Due, so I was under the impression M'kar only has quarrel with the Ultramarines because he was a Word Bearer who fought against them on Calth during the Horus Heresy. The Ultramarines bound M'kar on the Indomitable which during or right before the 13th Black Crusade the Iron Warriors under Honsou free him, which makes several events M'kar takes part in impossible unless there are imposters out there.

I for once is glad he is permanently dead, so at least GW won't be bringing him back to get has butt whooped again. But seriously, what is the deal with this guy that made him so popular despite no longer having a model (he has rules back in old editions, if I remember correctly).

Yes he was a Matt Ward creation and Ward had a massive erection for his own work. Many times when Daemons are concerned,the fluff reuses the same Daemon over and over. Mkar is one example, as being trapped in the Indomitable means he couldnt have approached Mephiston in 965M41, or been on Sondheim V in 997M41. Also this was less than 2 years before his final confrontation with Draigo, so why didnt Draigo go then?

Also, after being banished by Draigo in 999M41, he also attacked Ultramar with Honsou? And was permanently killed by the UMs but didnt break the curse on Draigo.


The issue is that Ward wanted to push him into this role with Draigo hut GW wanted to push this Ultramarine narrative, which is clear when other UM focused novels reveal his origins in the Horus Heresy.


A similarly overused Daemon is Mkachen. Apparently he's some kind of Nemesis to brother captain stern but also gets defeated by Draigo in his warp adventures and many others.



The truth is, GW put themselves in a corner by making Daemon names incredibly complex. Older names like Skarbrand, Fateweaver and Skulltaker are straigtforward. Usbso',!(!-12 is a difficult name to type, repeat and remember. Reusing the one name over and over makes it A) seem like that Daemon is important B) Allows them to skip past the character development of which Daemon did what when and why.

I remember once years ago asking where the M'kar mini was simply because for a guy named as much in the codices as he was I thought it seemed strange he lacked one

Daemon characters being reused makes sense though as it's hard to kill them permanently

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Daemon characters being reused makes sense though as it's hard to kill them permanently

From what I can tell, it's less about him being reused at all and more that he's been reused to often and in such short timeframes that other times he's been used stop making sense.

It’s the warp. He could be two places at once and time doesn’t matter.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Daemon characters being reused makes sense though as it's hard to kill them permanently

From what I can tell, it's less about him being reused at all and more that he's been reused to often and in such short timeframes that other times he's been used stop making sense.

Well he IS a Prince of Undivided so I imagine he likes to go around and get gak done.

Now if he's actually good at that is a different story.

Demon's presumably lose favor if they don't get things done. M'kar kinda just loses all the time. Though that may be a vicious cycle he can't get out of.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Daemon characters being reused makes sense though as it's hard to kill them permanently

From what I can tell, it's less about him being reused at all and more that he's been reused to often and in such short timeframes that other times he's been used stop making sense.

Well he IS a Prince of Undivided so I imagine he likes to go around and get gak done.

Now if he's actually good at that is a different story.

Latest fluff is that Undivided princes are Not and never will be a thing. Belakor is the only Undivided Prince and the gods kept fighting over him like children over a favourite toy. So from then on they only ever raise a Prince in their own power, never shared.

Also, getting gak done only works if he actually gets gak done. Mkar losed every confrontation he's mentioned with his only semi-victory being the cursing of Draigo.

One theory I have is that Tzeentch foresaw the danger of Draigo and decided to keep M'kar active until the curse was placed. One M'kar performed this role, he was useless. Notice how 2 events in 999M41 are Cursing Draigo and then the third invasion of Ultramar, where he is killed off for good.


The main issue though isnt that he is everywhere, its that the timeline doesnt make sense. The background for his third attack on Ultramar alongside Honsou reveals that Calgar didnt kill him in the 2nd Invasion, but trapped his essence in the warp core of the ship, and that he is still trapped there when they go to the ship. This makes it completely impossible for him to be involved in any other event including Sondheim V, Acralem, etc.

 Deadshot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Daemon characters being reused makes sense though as it's hard to kill them permanently

From what I can tell, it's less about him being reused at all and more that he's been reused to often and in such short timeframes that other times he's been used stop making sense.

Well he IS a Prince of Undivided so I imagine he likes to go around and get gak done.

Now if he's actually good at that is a different story.

Latest fluff is that Undivided princes are Not and never will be a thing. Belakor is the only Undivided Prince and the gods kept fighting over him like children over a favourite toy. So from then on they only ever raise a Prince in their own power, never shared.

Also, getting gak done only works if he actually gets gak done. Mkar losed every confrontation he's mentioned with his only semi-victory being the cursing of Draigo.

One theory I have is that Tzeentch foresaw the danger of Draigo and decided to keep M'kar active until the curse was placed. One M'kar performed this role, he was useless. Notice how 2 events in 999M41 are Cursing Draigo and then the third invasion of Ultramar, where he is killed off for good.


The main issue though isnt that he is everywhere, its that the timeline doesnt make sense. The background for his third attack on Ultramar alongside Honsou reveals that Calgar didnt kill him in the 2nd Invasion, but trapped his essence in the warp core of the ship, and that he is still trapped there when they go to the ship. This makes it completely impossible for him to be involved in any other event including Sondheim V, Acralem, etc.

Can you quote or give the source of the latest fluff?

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Daemon characters being reused makes sense though as it's hard to kill them permanently

From what I can tell, it's less about him being reused at all and more that he's been reused to often and in such short timeframes that other times he's been used stop making sense.

Well he IS a Prince of Undivided so I imagine he likes to go around and get gak done.

Now if he's actually good at that is a different story.

Latest fluff is that Undivided princes are Not and never will be a thing. Belakor is the only Undivided Prince and the gods kept fighting over him like children over a favourite toy. So from then on they only ever raise a Prince in their own power, never shared.

Also, getting gak done only works if he actually gets gak done. Mkar losed every confrontation he's mentioned with his only semi-victory being the cursing of Draigo.

One theory I have is that Tzeentch foresaw the danger of Draigo and decided to keep M'kar active until the curse was placed. One M'kar performed this role, he was useless. Notice how 2 events in 999M41 are Cursing Draigo and then the third invasion of Ultramar, where he is killed off for good.


The main issue though isnt that he is everywhere, its that the timeline doesnt make sense. The background for his third attack on Ultramar alongside Honsou reveals that Calgar didnt kill him in the 2nd Invasion, but trapped his essence in the warp core of the ship, and that he is still trapped there when they go to the ship. This makes it completely impossible for him to be involved in any other event including Sondheim V, Acralem, etc.

Can you quote or give the source of the latest fluff?

Which fluff do you refer to?

The DP undivided stuff comes from Belakor's entry in the lastest Daemons codex (or possibly CSM cant remember which). I also believe its on his Lexicanum page.

M'kars background in my last paragraph can be found on his Lexicanum page with sources. I'm currently operating on limited internet and battery life so this is as much as I can provided this moment

 Deadshot wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Daemon characters being reused makes sense though as it's hard to kill them permanently

From what I can tell, it's less about him being reused at all and more that he's been reused to often and in such short timeframes that other times he's been used stop making sense.

Well he IS a Prince of Undivided so I imagine he likes to go around and get gak done.

Now if he's actually good at that is a different story.

Latest fluff is that Undivided princes are Not and never will be a thing. Belakor is the only Undivided Prince and the gods kept fighting over him like children over a favourite toy. So from then on they only ever raise a Prince in their own power, never shared.

Also, getting gak done only works if he actually gets gak done. Mkar losed every confrontation he's mentioned with his only semi-victory being the cursing of Draigo.

One theory I have is that Tzeentch foresaw the danger of Draigo and decided to keep M'kar active until the curse was placed. One M'kar performed this role, he was useless. Notice how 2 events in 999M41 are Cursing Draigo and then the third invasion of Ultramar, where he is killed off for good.


The main issue though isnt that he is everywhere, its that the timeline doesnt make sense. The background for his third attack on Ultramar alongside Honsou reveals that Calgar didnt kill him in the 2nd Invasion, but trapped his essence in the warp core of the ship, and that he is still trapped there when they go to the ship. This makes it completely impossible for him to be involved in any other event including Sondheim V, Acralem, etc.

Can you quote or give the source of the latest fluff?

Which fluff do you refer to?

The DP undivided stuff comes from Belakor's entry in the lastest Daemons codex (or possibly CSM cant remember which). I also believe its on his Lexicanum page.

M'kars background in my last paragraph can be found on his Lexicanum page with sources. I'm currently operating on limited internet and battery life so this is as much as I can provided this moment

"Latest fluff is that Undivided princes are Not and never will be a thing. " Just on this, I'd like to read it.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:


"Latest fluff is that Undivided princes are Not and never will be a thing. " Just on this, I'd like to read it.

Well, instead of creating aerial views of ziggurats on threads open up you Daemon codex and read Be'lakor's entry or look him up on one of the many Wikis.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:


"Latest fluff is that Undivided princes are Not and never will be a thing. " Just on this, I'd like to read it.

Well, instead of creating aerial views of ziggurats on threads open up you Daemon codex and read Be'lakor's entry or look him up on one of the many Wikis.

And how exactly am I to know where to look, it could have been in a novel as well. Would you stop following me around like a bad spell. We had an argument and exchanged insults, get over it.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:


"Latest fluff is that Undivided princes are Not and never will be a thing. " Just on this, I'd like to read it.

Well, instead of creating aerial views of ziggurats on threads open up you Daemon codex and read Be'lakor's entry or look him up on one of the many Wikis.

And how exactly am I to know where to look, it could have been in a novel as well. Would you stop following me around like a bad spell. We had an argument and exchanged insults, get over it.

You've been given pretty exact notes on where to look in the very post you quoted and others, namely the Daemons codex and various wiki entries for Be'lakor.

As for Grim, they're allowed to use the forum just as much as you are, and nothing in the post was hostile or even close to it. From where I'm sat, it's certainly not Grim who needs to get over something.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:


"Latest fluff is that Undivided princes are Not and never will be a thing. " Just on this, I'd like to read it.

Well, instead of creating aerial views of ziggurats on threads open up you Daemon codex and read Be'lakor's entry or look him up on one of the many Wikis.

And how exactly am I to know where to look, it could have been in a novel as well. Would you stop following me around like a bad spell. We had an argument and exchanged insults, get over it.

You've been given pretty exact notes on where to look in the very post you quoted and others, namely the Daemons codex and various wiki entries for Be'lakor.

As for Grim, they're allowed to use the forum just as much as you are, and nothing in the post was hostile or even close to it. From where I'm sat, it's certainly not Grim who needs to get over something.

I only read the which part thing. Didn't read the rest. It was from another thread, why else would I say 'following me'. Yeah they can use the forum, but not follow me around on every thread I post in to argue with me. He hasn't even commented on this thread, but the only thing he's commented on is in reply to my comment, same with other threads, I mean come on.

"Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
I'll be watching you"



Dude, we've given you the relevant places of where to look. The ball is in your court. If you don't know what the 40k wikis are and how to find them then maybe you should not be so rude to other users.

 Grimtuff wrote:
"Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
I'll be watching you"



Dude, we've given you the relevant places of where to look. The ball is in your court. If you don't know what the 40k wikis are and how to find them then maybe you should not be so rude to other users.

Not be rude to other users, Jesus you have some balls saying that. Every comment I see you having with people you make sarcastic asshat replies. Seriously stop replying to my comments.

Temp lock till a mod has time to tackle this...