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Personally i'm a Salamanders player, so I get to take Either the Salamander's Mantle (+1 toughness) or The Armour Indomitus (2+ armour save and one time 3+ inv)

I love Iron Resolve as my Warlord Trait (+1 wound and on rolls of 6 wounds are ignored).

But i'm torn between better toughness or better armour save...

thoughts?

My idea when using a relic...

Is it giving you something you can't get elsewhere?

Salamander cloaks.. What if you just bring a Librarian with Might of Hero's?

For me I'm always more interested in the Santic Halo, for giving me some thing I can't get elsewhere.

Well I could take a captain in terminator armour i guess.....and give him a storm shield, that way he doesn't need the Armour Indomitus...

But that means he can't go in Razorback or other transport. and is far more expensive


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crusader Helm is interesting as it gives you a 9" (!) arua ability. so 9" rerolls to hit of 1

Or Spartean giving you anti-Character weapon...

I don't think any of the base Space Marine relics is a must have. Which is probably a sign they are reasonably well balanced.

Personally I tend to go with the Armour Indomitus though.

Math wise between 2+ save or T5 it depends to a degree on what you are facing, but generally the 2+ save works out better.

Basically as a rule of thumb it's better to get one roll that's really good and one that is average than two that are decent. For instance against a bolter with the Armour you have an 8% chance for a hit to wound (3/6*1/6), with the mantle it's 11% (2/6*2/6).

Also consider that against some weapons (S6, 7 or 9) the extra T is useless but the extra save helps regardless of S unless the AP is greater than -1.

Overall, I'd say it's very close. But the option of the once a game 3++ swings it for me for the Armour.

That is very true, i usually go for the armour indom anyway but just wondered if T5 was a better option.

 Corennus wrote:
That is very true, i usually go for the armour indom anyway but just wondered if T5 was a better option.

If you expect to face a lot of Plasma or similar (S8 with high AP), the Mantle will do more. It's highly dependent on the opponent which comes out on top! But both are good, you can't go too wrong.

The Mantle is plain bad. Captains aren't tough in the first place so if you want a relic to make them more durable you need to go over the top. The Shield Eternal and accept no substitutes.

For a Primaris captain the armour is a good pick, as they cannot get stormshields so that one use 3+ invulnerable is nice.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Mantle is plain bad. Captains aren't tough in the first place so if you want a relic to make them more durable you need to go over the top. The Shield Eternal and accept no substitutes.

I disagree. It makes a difference Vs S4, 5, 8, and 9. All of which we see a fair bit of. You get hit by power fists and I'd want it to be 3+ to wound instead of 2+ thank you!

It's not the most exciting relic, but none of the vanilla Marine ones are frankly.


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Anyone who's played with or against Custodes know the value T5 can have.

Well for me it's Iron Resolve and Armour Indomitus. 6 wounds, a 6+ FNP and 2+ armour save .

Shield Eternal is interesting though

I use my Relic for the ancient now. Captains can already get a bunch of good gear, and most of the relics seem a bit redundant unless you have some particular build in mind.

Ooh, for another spin here's something to consider:

Forgeworld make a Chaplain Dreadnought. I kitbashed one from an Ironclad with a bunch of ornate wings and such I had in my bits box!

Anyway, turns out the dread can take relics, which is just super awesome. It's also under 10 wounds so gets character protection! So you can have a dreadnought hitting on 2s with 2 Lascannons, that can't be shot most of the time, and also give it a relic.

It can take the Armour for a 2+ save or the mantle for T8!

Here's the conversion (paint job work in progress!) in case anyone was interested!

For those who whant T5 and the armour indom...Captain on bike. You have one point more T, one wound more, more movement, the bolters from the bike and you can give him the armour relic.

Stux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Mantle is plain bad. Captains aren't tough in the first place so if you want a relic to make them more durable you need to go over the top. The Shield Eternal and accept no substitutes.

I disagree. It makes a difference Vs S4, 5, 8, and 9. All of which we see a fair bit of. You get hit by power fists and I'd want it to be 3+ to wound instead of 2+ thank you!

It's not the most exciting relic, but none of the vanilla Marine ones are frankly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone who's played with or against Custodes know the value T5 can have.

Those S5-9 weapons almost ALL have multi-damage. Cutting that damage in half is better.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Mantle is plain bad. Captains aren't tough in the first place so if you want a relic to make them more durable you need to go over the top. The Shield Eternal and accept no substitutes.

I disagree. It makes a difference Vs S4, 5, 8, and 9. All of which we see a fair bit of. You get hit by power fists and I'd want it to be 3+ to wound instead of 2+ thank you!

It's not the most exciting relic, but none of the vanilla Marine ones are frankly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone who's played with or against Custodes know the value T5 can have.

Those S5-9 weapons almost ALL have multi-damage. Cutting that damage in half is better.

Shield eternal is good, I'm not arguing that at all. But it does take up a weapon slot and that is an important factor.

I was kind of assuming the OP had already decided he wasn't taking a Storm Shield tbh.

Stux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Mantle is plain bad. Captains aren't tough in the first place so if you want a relic to make them more durable you need to go over the top. The Shield Eternal and accept no substitutes.

I disagree. It makes a difference Vs S4, 5, 8, and 9. All of which we see a fair bit of. You get hit by power fists and I'd want it to be 3+ to wound instead of 2+ thank you!

It's not the most exciting relic, but none of the vanilla Marine ones are frankly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone who's played with or against Custodes know the value T5 can have.

Those S5-9 weapons almost ALL have multi-damage. Cutting that damage in half is better.

Shield eternal is good, I'm not arguing that at all. But it does take up a weapon slot and that is an important factor.

I was kind of assuming the OP had already decided he wasn't taking a Storm Shield tbh.

Do you need another weapon slot besides for the Thunder Hammer? Honestly no unless you want another relic weapon. It's almost like there's 0 choice.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Mantle is plain bad. Captains aren't tough in the first place so if you want a relic to make them more durable you need to go over the top. The Shield Eternal and accept no substitutes.

I disagree. It makes a difference Vs S4, 5, 8, and 9. All of which we see a fair bit of. You get hit by power fists and I'd want it to be 3+ to wound instead of 2+ thank you!

It's not the most exciting relic, but none of the vanilla Marine ones are frankly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone who's played with or against Custodes know the value T5 can have.

Those S5-9 weapons almost ALL have multi-damage. Cutting that damage in half is better.

Shield eternal is good, I'm not arguing that at all. But it does take up a weapon slot and that is an important factor.

I was kind of assuming the OP had already decided he wasn't taking a Storm Shield tbh.

Do you need another weapon slot besides for the Thunder Hammer? Honestly no unless you want another relic weapon. It's almost like there's 0 choice.

If someone has decided not to take a storm shield for flavour reasons it's still valid to ask which other relic works out best though.

Stux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Mantle is plain bad. Captains aren't tough in the first place so if you want a relic to make them more durable you need to go over the top. The Shield Eternal and accept no substitutes.

I disagree. It makes a difference Vs S4, 5, 8, and 9. All of which we see a fair bit of. You get hit by power fists and I'd want it to be 3+ to wound instead of 2+ thank you!

It's not the most exciting relic, but none of the vanilla Marine ones are frankly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone who's played with or against Custodes know the value T5 can have.

Those S5-9 weapons almost ALL have multi-damage. Cutting that damage in half is better.

Shield eternal is good, I'm not arguing that at all. But it does take up a weapon slot and that is an important factor.

I was kind of assuming the OP had already decided he wasn't taking a Storm Shield tbh.

Do you need another weapon slot besides for the Thunder Hammer? Honestly no unless you want another relic weapon. It's almost like there's 0 choice.

If someone has decided not to take a storm shield for flavour reasons it's still valid to ask which other relic works out best though.

Then you take Teeth Of Terra. Simple as that. Even I'll admit I love taking the Primarchs Wrath but that's because I have a model. I wouldn't advise ever actually taking it though.

Or, you know, take a defensive one. Also simple.

Stux wrote:
Or, you know, take a defensive one. Also simple.

Soooooo The Shield Eternal.

Otherwise the Chapter specific ones aren't good outside the Black Templar one.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stux wrote:
Or, you know, take a defensive one. Also simple.

Soooooo The Shield Eternal.

Otherwise the Chapter specific ones aren't good outside the Black Templar one.

Unnnnlessssss your build doesn't have a storm shield. We're going in circles now...

Stux wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Stux wrote:
Or, you know, take a defensive one. Also simple.

Soooooo The Shield Eternal.

Otherwise the Chapter specific ones aren't good outside the Black Templar one.

Unnnnlessssss your build doesn't have a storm shield. We're going in circles now...

Then take them as a Counts-As named character. Most generic character builds in the codex are junk anyway.

I still enjoy the old 7th Edition smash-fether.

Captain on bike with Shield Eternal and Hammer/fist.

Doesn't cost much, does nasty things to enemy gun lines (especially if he has buddies with him)

Most SM players I go against usually have the captain with Armour Indomitus & Storm Shield/Thunder Hammer. Ultra's WL trait for the CP farm (or any other chapter, Iron Resolve for +1W / 6+FNP)