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Until the next FAQ comes out this list (or something very similar) will appear at every level of tourney play. I’ve heard a bunch of people asking about it, so here it is. This is my version with my own few tweaks, but the core remains the same. Knight kill anything big that can touch it. Smash Captains mess up your back field one at a time while a whole lot of S4 bodies cover objectives and aren’t afraid of combat. Honestly this is one of the most broken list I’ve seen in 40k thus far. Frankly I have no real idea how to beat it (aside from play a list like it or wait till the FAQ kills it) Thoughts?


++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [65 PL, 997pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Catachan

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Grand Strategist, Laspistol, Warlord

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Kurov's Aquila, Laspistol

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave, Gaze of the Emperor, Psychic Barrier

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Elites +

Crusaders [6 PL, 150pts]
. 10x Crusader: 10x Power Sword

Ministorum Priest [2 PL, 35pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Ministorum Priest [2 PL, 35pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Ogryn Bodyguard [4 PL, 62pts]: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul

+ Fast Attack +

Artemia Pattern Hellhound [6 PL, 90pts]
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Flamer

Artemia Pattern Hellhound [6 PL, 90pts]
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Flamer

Artemia Pattern Hellhound [6 PL, 90pts]
. Artemia Pattern Hellhound: Heavy Flamer

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [24 PL, 399pts] ++

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 114pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Pack, Thunder hammer

Captain [6 PL, 114pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Pack, Thunder hammer

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 57pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter

Scout Squad [4 PL, 57pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter

Scout Squad [4 PL, 57pts]
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout: Boltgun
. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [30 PL, 604pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Exalted Court: Exalted Court: 1 Extra Warlord Trait (-1CP)

Heirlooms of the Household: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom (-1CP)

Household Choice: House Raven, Questor Mechanicus

+ Lord of War +

Knight Castellan [30 PL, 604pts]: Character (Exalted Court), Character (Heirloom of the House), Heirloom: Cawl's Wrath, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
. Two Siegebreaker Cannons & Two Shieldbreaker Missiles: 2x Shieldbreaker Missile, 2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon

++ Total: [119 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I mean I think we're all familiar with it by now, honestly its the reason I haven't started playing again since coming back from a hiatus. Theres no point until the FAQ. That said the only counters seem to be either kill the company commanders early to remove the CP battery but thats almost impossible due to savy opponents hiding them well. Also focusing on the HQ will leave you open to Smash captains and the knight. You also have to worry about the hellhounds rushing your lines and exploding so you have to take them out before that happens. Honestly this list really doesn't have an inherent weakness especially considering CP to mitigate any bad rolls. The only things that can beat it are the same list or leaf blower lists tailored to specifically counter it but then that type of list tends to lose to everything else so its not good.

Well, it seems to be one of the big lists in 40k at the moment. But the FAQs can change things quickly. As rumoured, the Castellan may go to 700 pts or more and the CP batteries may be weakened.

I think we all know this is going to be nerfed, but until then, a few things:
- go all out on the melee guard and take Straken instead of one of those commanders
- Crusaders are great because they only need one buff to get to 2++ when there are multiple ways of doing so (Psychic Barrier, Take Cover), therefore make the most of this and take two units.
- I don't think you need two Priests - take extra psychic support instead (Astropaths)
- Give the Ogryn Bodyguard the Death Mask of Olanus and a slabshield for a 2++ instead of taking the brute shield
- Hellhounds hurt you more than your opponent imo - I'd skip them and spend the points elsewhere (see above ^^)
- lastly, take knives on the Scouts

soon it will worth like canned poop, wait the FAQ/CA and that list will stop to exist.

 blackmage wrote:
soon it will worth like canned poop, wait the FAQ/CA and that list will stop to exist.

Agreed

 Brother Payne wrote:

- Hellhounds hurt you more than your opponent imo - I'd skip them and spend the points elsewhere (see above ^^)

I think this is very wrong. At the moment I'm playing
Ahriman - > Death Hex anyone?
2 Daemon Princes, 1 Sorcerer, 1 Chaos Lord with fist
86 cultists +51 Tzaangor
9 obliterators
(BTW the non-Th Sons units are Alpha Legion obviously)

If the Oblys manage to kill the Knight and the are no Hellhounds in the table, the battle is probably over. Otherwise, he might still stand a chance I guess.

This said, what do you people think? Can my army take on THE list? (waiting for FAQs of course)

 Dampyr Blackblade wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:

- Hellhounds hurt you more than your opponent imo - I'd skip them and spend the points elsewhere (see above ^^)

I think this is very wrong. At the moment I'm playing
Ahriman - > Death Hex anyone?
2 Daemon Princes, 1 Sorcerer, 1 Chaos Lord with fist
86 cultists +51 Tzaangor
9 obliterators
(BTW the non-Th Sons units are Alpha Legion obviously)

If the Oblys manage to kill the Knight and the are no Hellhounds in the table, the battle is probably over. Otherwise, he might still stand a chance I guess.

This said, what do you people think? Can my army take on THE list? (waiting for FAQs of course)

Alternaively, if you target the Hellhounds before they can escape his own lines you're dealing massive amounts of mortal wounds to his stuff, and if you clear all the infantry off the board, the knight can't deal with 130 bodies. Admittedly the Hellhoinds would probably go alright in a matchup against your list, but I'm generally not a fan of them.

On whether or not your list can take on "the list", I don't think so tbh. Some rounds you'll get first turn and good rolls for the oblits' weapons, but there's just too much variability in their weapon stats and getting first turn for them to be reliable game to game

True, although with Prescience, Gaze of Fate, Cacophony, and especially the fact that they will ALWAYS be Deep Striken (is "stricken" the right form?) I am fairly sure that they will deliver a good amount of damage to the big guy

Raven wing occupying force:

Captain + thunder hammer + thunder shield + The shield eternal = 116 pts
Primaris liutenant + power axe + rites of war = 75 pts

5 tactical + lascannon = 90 pts
5 tactical + lascannon + storm bolter = 92 pts
5 tactical + lascannon + storm bolter = 92 pts
5 tactical + lascannon + storm bolter = 92 pts
5 tactical + plasma cannon + storm bolter = 88 pts

Company ancient + storm bolter = 65 pts

10 devastator + 3 plasma cannon + 1 lascannon + kerubi = 225 pts
10 devastator + 3 plasma cannon + 1 lascannon + kerubi = 225 pts
10 devastator + 3 plasma cannon + 1 lascannon + kerubi = 225 pts

Captain + thunder shield + teeth of terra = 91 pts
Primaris liutenant + power sword = 74 pts

5 tactical + lascannon + storm bolter = 92 pts
5 tactical + lascannon + storm bolter = 92 pts
5 tactical + lascannon + storm bolter = 92 pts
5 tactical + plasma cannon + storm bolter = 88 pts
5 tactical + plasma cannon + storm bolter = 88 pts

= 2000 pts

I'd try with this - Against that.

I’ve done very well against similar lists running a mortal wound/psyker heavy Kraken Nids list. Shockcannon Hiveguard with biovore/Tyrant/Maleceptor support don’t care about invulns and can pop the knight turn 1 while mostly weathering going second. If the obnoxiously undercosted knight dies early the rest falls pretty quick.

I think it's pretty obvious how you beat this list.
You spam Harlie bikes with haywire with jetbike seer and warlock biker with guide and doom and quicken. The Casteallan is dead turn 1 provided there isn't some insane terrain scenario.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious how you beat this list.
You spam Harlie bikes with haywire with jetbike seer and warlock biker with guide and doom and quicken. The Casteallan is dead turn 1 provided there isn't some insane terrain scenario.

You first need to get rid off the bubble wrap surrounding the Castellan.
The army has enough bodies to make this difficult.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious how you beat this list.
You spam Harlie bikes with haywire with jetbike seer and warlock biker with guide and doom and quicken. The Casteallan is dead turn 1 provided there isn't some insane terrain scenario.

You first need to get rid off the bubble wrap surrounding the Castellan.
The army has enough bodies to make this difficult.

Not really - you just shoot right over them - 24" range guns with d6 haywire shots. Doom is also 24" inch range. Obviously whoever goes first has an advantage here but that is a given. Even if the Imperial army goes first - they probably wont be able to stop you from getting to the castellan with 24" range guns.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious how you beat this list.
You spam Harlie bikes with haywire with jetbike seer and warlock biker with guide and doom and quicken. The Casteallan is dead turn 1 provided there isn't some insane terrain scenario.

You first need to get rid off the bubble wrap surrounding the Castellan.
The army has enough bodies to make this difficult.

Not really - you just shoot right over them - 24" range guns with d6 haywire shots. Doom is also 24" inch range. Obviously whoever goes first has an advantage here but that is a given. Even if the Imperial army goes first - they probably wont be able to stop you from getting to the castellan with 24" range guns.

I think you're vastly underestimating the list tbh. Yes haywire bikes can deal with the Castellan, maybe turn 1, but that's only 1/3 of the list and the other 2/3 isn't just filler.

so easy defeat that list that took over Nova open and Invitational, usually the "easy solutions" are brought by who never ever played against that list.

A decently put swarm nid list can give this list run for its money.

 blackmage wrote:
so easy defeat that list that took over Nova open and Invitational, usually the "easy solutions" are brought by who never ever played against that list.

10000%

I'd be for the massed body approach. 200+ Boyz, cultists, guardsmen, plague bearers or termagants and prioritize the guardsmen and mortars. Definitely no easy way to wim this match up but that's the way I'd go!

agree one of best counters to that list is infantry spam if you have a decent way to deal with mortars and massed IG infantry, they can be annoying against your light infantry, pb spam is a doom for IK based lists, they cant handle 90-120 pb.