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This just popped up on Facebook today!

https://www.facebook.com/warlordgames/

Cruel Seas - coastal forces game by Warlord. Starter set about £50 which should include 6 RN Vosper MTBs and 4 Kriegsmarine S boats. As you can see in the sprues the RN one can make 1 vosper with 20mm gun on the prow and 1 vosper with 6 pounder on the prow. The 2 s boats are also built each as a different class. Other ships will be released in resin. 6 fleets will be released. RN, Kreigsmarine, US, Japanese, Italian and Russian.

Word is that this should be out by Christmas.

I realize there are wargaming minis in 1/285 - 1/300, but I think it would have been better to make this slightly smaller at 1/350 and have crossover potential with a major naval modeling scale. I’d venture there are probably more ship modelers that would like it in scale with their models than there are 1/300 gamers dying for an S-Boat to go along with their Panzer Divisions....

Yep, that's a bit more perplexing since Warlord Games and ESCI/ERTL finally figured out that...*gasp* there might be useful crossovers in the two large communities of people who assemble and paint plastic models from sprues.

Of course, having said that - people with larger 1/350 collections can simply use their own models I'm sure.

The wake speed-counter is a stroke of brilliance.

Looks interesting and were it by anyone other than Warlord I would be pretty excited.

 ingtaer wrote:
Looks interesting and were it by anyone other than Warlord I would be pretty excited.

Same, but I still think "oh, potential new models..."

 Elbows wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Looks interesting and were it by anyone other than Warlord I would be pretty excited.

Same, but I still think "oh, potential new models..."

Yeah I will probably pick up some of the Vospers when they inevitably go on deep discount.

 Elbows wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Looks interesting and were it by anyone other than Warlord I would be pretty excited.

Same, but I still think "oh, potential new models..."

Why’s that guys?

They have a bad habit of releasing games doing a big splash and then cutting all support.

Those look like they'd make easy conversions for BFG system ships. I look forward to Warlord's sprue clear out in 2020.

 totalfailure wrote:
I realize there are wargaming minis in 1/285 - 1/300, but I think it would have been better to make this slightly smaller at 1/350 and have crossover potential with a major naval modeling scale. I’d venture there are probably more ship modelers that would like it in scale with their models than there are 1/300 gamers dying for an S-Boat to go along with their Panzer Divisions....

If anything this game should be in 1/600 or 1/700 scale, making it in 1/300 is another case of accepting superdeformed combat as the price for big and detailed minis. That way at 1/700 you could have the littoral and torpedo boats moving and shooting as normal, but you could also realistically fit destroyers or maybe even a cruiser on the board as a peak ship class, as well as troop transports and amphibious assault ships, and actually give the torpedoes on the torpedo boats a reason to exist.

They would be pretty small though, a shade over an inch.

Epic scale naval combat???

 ingtaer wrote:
They would be pretty small though, a shade over an inch.

Sure, but it would make for better gameplay. Most naval combat games go at scales of 1/1600 up to 1/3000, where the capital ships are only an inch or two long.

Prioritising "big, beautiful, highly detailed minis" ahead of a scale that better suits the type of game they're trying to write is a problem from which a lot of GW-adjacent companies like Warlord can't seem to break away.

 NTRabbit wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
They would be pretty small though, a shade over an inch.

Sure, but it would make for better gameplay. Most naval combat games go at scales of 1/1600 up to 1/3000, where the capital ships are only an inch or two long.

Prioritising "big, beautiful, highly detailed minis" ahead of a scale that better suits the type of game they're trying to write is a problem from which a lot of GW-adjacent companies like Warlord can't seem to break away.

I get what you are saying and personally have no issue with tiny models (check out one of the links in my sig!) but what you are talking about is an entirely different game, one that sounds a lot better. I would be well up for game that had say an 8-inch cruiser as the maximum size but was focused on Destroyer/Frigate/Corvette/Corvette flotilla actions with S boats and MTBs being the smallest vessels. I guess its like the difference between Epic and 40K and it would remain a separate thing from the fleet scale games that are currently around.

However it appears that Warlord are releasing a boat sized game where I would guess the largest vessel will be an E-Boat, it would be interesting to know why this was chosen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, went hunting to see if I could answer my question and whilst I couldn't I did find some new images, appears destroyers are the largest class;

Oh my. A modern naval combat game! I loved Axis and Allies despite the dodgy models.

This, oh dear. My wallet, it burns!

NTRabbit wrote:If anything this game should be in 1/600 or 1/700 scale

Ptboats sell 1/600 ww2 coastal craft (also great war and russian civil war). Don't have any alas but they look nice in the pictures. https://ptdockyard.com/1600-ww2-coastal-miniatures/

1/300 is also too large for my tastes when it comes to this subject matter (I do great war naval in 1/6000). However, plastic, convertable 1/300 ships will be perfect for 6mm necromunda based around gang control of the sump sea. The scale would be fine for this, heavy noxious clouds of polluants would reduce visability plus there would be nothing heavier than a heavy bolter so the longer range ww2 weapons would not be present.

Why is it a problem if the model scale doesn't match the ground scale? Isn't that true of just about every miniatures game?

 Elbows wrote:
Yep, that's a bit more perplexing since Warlord Games and ESCI/ERTL finally figured out that...*gasp* there might be useful crossovers in the two large communities of people who assemble and paint plastic models from sprues.

Warlord and ESCI? What are you talking about? ESCI has been out of business since the 90's and Ertl makes die cast farm tractors. Is there some sort of dystopian farm tractor game that the ghosts of ESCI, ex GW staff at Warlord, and Ertl all make together?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ingtaer wrote:
They have a bad habit of releasing games doing a big splash and then cutting all support.

Yeah, there hasn't been any support for Bolt Action, Black Powder, Hail Caesar, Gates of Antares, Pike & Shotte; definitely not dozens of campaign books and thousands of miniatures with weekly to monthly new releases

 ingtaer wrote:
Looks interesting and were it by anyone other than Warlord I would be pretty excited.

This surprises me. Most of their games are thriving and their local support at our shop is incredible.

 judgedoug wrote:

Warlord and ESCI? What are you talking about? ESCI has been out of business since the 90's and Ertl makes die cast farm tractors. Is there some sort of dystopian farm tractor game that the ghosts of ESCI, ex GW staff at Warlord, and Ertl all make together?

I can imagine a special character by the name of Farmer Palmer who's famous battle cry "Get Orf Moi Land" rings out and routs all enemy tractors within earshot

I have to say, this is an area of gaming you do not see too much of as it is typically pretty niche.

I am vaguely interested.

Is the German "Destroyer" shown a Type 37 or Type 35 Fleet Torpedo Boat?

Also I'm interested in this, unfortunately I dont know many other people that would be in my area.

Very interested. If they hold support for it after a year I will jump in.

 Elbows wrote:
Of course, having said that - people with larger 1/350 collections can simply use their own models I'm sure.

My cynicism is suggesting that this is the reason why they picked the scale that they did. Sure, groups with existing minis can use their own stuff. But Warlord is probably hoping to draw gamers that aren't already invested in this particular niche. And newcomers will likely buy the Warlord figures, which will put pressure on existing gamers to get the new Warlord boats as well so that they have miniatures that are compatible.

Eumerin wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Of course, having said that - people with larger 1/350 collections can simply use their own models I'm sure.

My cynicism is suggesting that this is the reason why they picked the scale that they did. Sure, groups with existing minis can use their own stuff. But Warlord is probably hoping to draw gamers that aren't already invested in this particular niche. And newcomers will likely buy the Warlord figures, which will put pressure on existing gamers to get the new Warlord boats as well so that they have miniatures that are compatible.

Well people using existing models does nothing for warlord so i dont see this as a problem at all.

besides their starter box type things are usually pretty good so outside the most pinchiest of crabs i dont think it will matter.

judgedoug wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ingtaer wrote:
They have a bad habit of releasing games doing a big splash and then cutting all support.

Yeah, there hasn't been any support for Bolt Action, Black Powder, Hail Caesar, Gates of Antares, Pike & Shotte; definitely not dozens of campaign books and thousands of miniatures with weekly to monthly new releases

Shrapnelsmile wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Looks interesting and were it by anyone other than Warlord I would be pretty excited.

This surprises me. Most of their games are thriving and their local support at our shop is incredible.

I was thinking more along the lines of the their side games like Terminator and Project Z, I must admit to not being that up on their smaller ranges but are they still releasing stuff for Dr. Who, Blood Red Skies, Test of Honour and Konflict?

 ingtaer wrote:
...
I was thinking more along the lines of the their side games like Terminator and Project Z, I must admit to not being that up on their smaller ranges but are they still releasing stuff for Dr. Who, Blood Red Skies, Test of Honour and Konflict?

Yes, they are.

Terminator was a River Horse game, Warlord was just a distributor I believe. I think project Z must not have done very well. A lot of the sprues for it were in their summer sprue sale for next to nothing.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:

judgedoug wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ingtaer wrote:
They have a bad habit of releasing games doing a big splash and then cutting all support.

Yeah, there hasn't been any support for Bolt Action, Black Powder, Hail Caesar, Gates of Antares, Pike & Shotte; definitely not dozens of campaign books and thousands of miniatures with weekly to monthly new releases

Shrapnelsmile wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Looks interesting and were it by anyone other than Warlord I would be pretty excited.

This surprises me. Most of their games are thriving and their local support at our shop is incredible.

I was thinking more along the lines of the their side games like Terminator and Project Z, I must admit to not being that up on their smaller ranges but are they still releasing stuff for Dr. Who, Blood Red Skies, Test of Honour and Konflict?

Yes, they are.

Terminator was a River Horse game, they were just a distributor I believe. I think project Z must not have done very well. A lot of the sprues for it were in their summer sprue sale for next to nothing.

Cool, thanks for the info. Seems like just my luck that 2/3 of the Warlord games I bought into went that way! Hopefully Cruel Seas enjoys a long and prosperous release schedule as I would love to see more stuff for it, not least the French who loved their small craft.

 ingtaer wrote:
Blood Red Skies, … Konflict?

Konflict isn't really Warlord, iirc. It's another company that adapted the Bolt Action rules to the setting. And since it's so closely tied to Bolt Action, Warlord is distributing it.

Blood Red Skies just got released, so there hasn't been time for Warlord to drop it yet. What we know is that five old Zvezda aircraft are going to get released with stats for Blood Red Skies. Releases have been announced for the next wave of planes (including the ME110). And Warlord ran a big demo game at one event that involved naval aircraft attacking a carrier in the Pacific (can't remember which side was US, and which side was Japan).