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Made in it
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




Hi everyone
i just completed my Imperial Knight and a friend of mine who has an extensive eldar army has (obviously) also a Wraithknight so we thought about: why don't we do a Knight vs Knight duel army?
So we are preparing a low PL army (ie 50 or 60 PL) focused on the knight and some support/complement

I dunno what he will bring on the table, but he has an extensive eldar army; I have a Blood Angel army to support my Knight so i was thinking about

- Imperial Knight Crusader, with Avenger Gatling and Rapid Fire Battle Cannon + carapace missile launcher (probably ironstorm)
- Blood Angel Devstator 4x lascannon, plus a couple predator or whirlwind
so using the long distance to weaken him and meanwhile eliminating those Fire Dragon i really fear and trying keep him at bay (difficult, they are very fast and mobile...)

on the other side, i bought also a couple Helverin; probably i will not have painted by the time we will face, but i guess nobody knows so i'm thinking about a different approach, like using helverin for long range fire, blood angel for anti-infantry and using a Knight Gallant or Errant for close combat?
what else do you suggest me?

My knight model is full magnetised so i can easily swap weapon selection; i'm not stuck to the crusader one

--
Each Uisge
3000 (approx)

some of my work here: https://imgur.com/user/MaleficoKelpie/posts

WH40k - Blood Angels https://imgur.com/a/p5F7u and Imperial Knight https://imgur.com/a/STDmxPF
Necromunda https://imgur.com/a/AQ3xX
Kings of War https://imgur.com/a/x56ods7 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The full cheese monkey option is a BA battalion with scouts and Slamquinius's.
A raven Crusader
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





It doesn't matter. He is handicapping himself heavily by bringing a Wraithknight, so an easy win for Imperial.
   
Made in it
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




 bullyboy wrote:
It doesn't matter. He is handicapping himself heavily by bringing a Wraithknight, so an easy win for Imperial.
Really?
in the old edition the 'knight was a very powerful unit and i found myself struggling hard to put him down (and then found myself with half army in front of an almost full waveserpent army...)

but was the old edition and i had only BA to face him (i killed it some times with Mephiston before codex release where he was really too powerful... but that's a couple years ago, so basically very old age...)

@Ice_can so the tactic you advise is to put a scout unit and a pumped up captain in hand to hand? i was thinking about letting the knight be warlord; i painted it hawkshroud, there is no problem really to give him a different household but it seems nice to have the one closer to the one i painted :|

--
Each Uisge
3000 (approx)

some of my work here: https://imgur.com/user/MaleficoKelpie/posts

WH40k - Blood Angels https://imgur.com/a/p5F7u and Imperial Knight https://imgur.com/a/STDmxPF
Necromunda https://imgur.com/a/AQ3xX
Kings of War https://imgur.com/a/x56ods7 
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

Wraithknight must feature in the list of most-nerfed units in 8th. GW went all medieval on it.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

In a 1v1 IK vs WK fight, a WK actually wins because it can take 2 guns that are designed to take down big targets. It can also have -1 to be hit via Alaitioc, so it basically just plays the range game and pops shots at the IK until it dies. As long as the WK can stay 25+" away from the IK, the game heavily favors the WK

But once you add supporting units, the balance shifts DRAMATICALLY towards the IK because it is so much cheaper than the WK, thus allowing more support units.
And to top that off, the IKs guns will now have ideal targets to remove other than the WK.

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/24 21:46:21


   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Brlng in raven castellan. Boom

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/25 03:41:36


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Don't bring a stompa to a knight fight.
   
Made in it
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




Thank you everyone for your advices and helps
we settled our points to 55
that'ts enough for me to bring a Knight Lance with
- 1 Knight Crusader (gatling and rapid-fire cannon)
- 2 Armiger Helverin
- i have then 12 point to spare with BA support

as for the BA i'm not really sure what to bring on, it depends on the tactic i would use
i need then to figure out what's the tactic i would like to use.

i have not yet decided what tactic and strategy use but there something i'd like (if you suggest something else i can change of course)
- i like to use Hawkshroud just because it's the painting livery of my models. Me and my friend have no great problem with proxies so i can swap for a different household so no really a must
- i was thinking about using Knight as a warlord. Not really a game changer of course but it's a good idea (that could prevent me from using Slamquinius, i fear :| )
- i know WraithKnight have very strong cannon but at shorter range than mine, and he got no invulnerable if he equip the cannons, so i plan on keeping him far away from my Knight/Armiger
- i was thinking about using Knight to quickly eradicate his support (specially i fear the Fire Dragon squad...) and support/Armiger to keep the WK at bay, but i fear it would need a more focused units

- i was thinking about a patrol detachment with a Tactic Squad (with lascannon) and an HQ with combi-weapon (plasma or flamer?). If i can manage it, also an Aegida fortification or a Razorback+Lascannon
- other option is to get a scout and a strong melee captain (slamquinius or something similar as someone suggested), again fortification of razorback if i can manage it
- 3x lieutenant/sanguinary priest in supreme command detachment (to get the +1 CP i will use istantly for Veritas Vitae)

So, what do you think about?
some special tactic (or change in the one i planned)? something to spend my CP (i should have 6-7 CP to spend)?

as i noted before i fully magnetised my Knight arms so i can use all the options (Crusader, Gallant, Paladin, etc) and i can change the tactic if, for example, you advise to go full melee for it or something else.

ty for your advices

--
Each Uisge
3000 (approx)

some of my work here: https://imgur.com/user/MaleficoKelpie/posts

WH40k - Blood Angels https://imgur.com/a/p5F7u and Imperial Knight https://imgur.com/a/STDmxPF
Necromunda https://imgur.com/a/AQ3xX
Kings of War https://imgur.com/a/x56ods7 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

Since you're bringing 3 Knights (well, 1 and 2 half knights) is the Eldar player planning on bringing more than 1 WK, or are they going to do the smart thing and bring 3 Fire Prisms.

   
Made in it
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




 Galef wrote:
Since you're bringing 3 Knights (well, 1 and 2 half knights) is the Eldar player planning on bringing more than 1 WK, or are they going to do the smart thing and bring 3 Fire Prisms.
I really dunno what he's planning for...
i do know he will bring the WraithKnight. That's what we planned: wraithknight vs imperial knight.
everything else is left to our imagination.
he have several waveserpent with magnetized weapon set so he could swap weapon. I'm pretty sure he will bring Fire Dragon because well i guess a full squad very agile armed with meltagun is something i would bring to destroy a big walking vehicle. But that's just an educated guess. He could also bring all psyker for all i know...

--
Each Uisge
3000 (approx)

some of my work here: https://imgur.com/user/MaleficoKelpie/posts

WH40k - Blood Angels https://imgur.com/a/p5F7u and Imperial Knight https://imgur.com/a/STDmxPF
Necromunda https://imgur.com/a/AQ3xX
Kings of War https://imgur.com/a/x56ods7 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

When facing Fire Dragons, RIS for a 4++ (or 3++ if you have Ion Bulwark). That should ward off most of the damage. Then gun them down with your Avenger Gatling Cannon. A full 10-man squad of Dragons will do on average 12 points of damage to a Knight (15 if within 6") before saves meaning only 6 after a 4++ or 4 after a 3++.

Fire Dragons will not reliably put enough damage on a Knight in 1 turn to be a major threat and they will be unlikely to get a second turn of firing.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight






Yendor

Well the Eldar Player should be casting Jinx on the Imperial Knight prior to engaging it. Its one of the most useful Warlock Powers anyway, and definitely helps mitigate the Invulnerable Saves. I would expect a Farseer to cast Doom, and a Warlock or Spirit Seer to Cast Jinx on the turn the Eldar actually engage the Imperial Knight. One of Eldar's biggest strengths is using psychic powers to focus fire on dangerous threats. Rotate Ion Shields can foil Jinx however.

I suppose it will be interesting to see whether the Eldar goes for Iyanden or Alaitoc. Iyanden can make his Wraithknight basically immune to degeneration. An Iyanden Melee Knight might actually be quite scary, especially on the turn they pop the Psytronome of Iyanden to double the Wraith Knight's Attacks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/26 14:30:07


Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





USA

Just give your IK the ion bulwark warlord trait and Sanctuary relic. After that just save your CP's for ion bulwark and enjoy a 3+ invul against shooting and 4+ invul in melee. Choose hawkshroud household for staying at top bracket as long as possible. You'll be just fine. Even with Jinx, he would need 10 melta gun shots HITTING AND WOUNDING to down the knight.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/26 17:32:11


- 10,000 pts 
   
Made in it
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




Oh cool thank you
i fought several battle against my friend's eldar but everytime i fail to keep in consideration Psionics
Really there is no way i can manage to get them in my head

I like your idea and i think I'd go with Ion Bulwark and Sanctuary for warlord and keep CP for Rotating Shield strategy, then. Also, the IK with avenger gatling and battle cannon and use him and 2x helverin to shoot down everything from far distance

as complementary/support units, i have some few ideas about what to bring on, but noone really convincing (besides i have only 12 points so really few for something useful...)
some ideas i got here and there on this forum and on internet are

- Slamquinius, but itr requires a lot of CP and also has been nerfed with last FAQ :|
- one HQ with Veritas Vitae (to keep getting the CP for RIS as you suggested) and probably one scout or tactical troop to fullfill requirements for patrol detachment (also, using sniper scout to eliminate squishier targets or tactical heavy weapon to soften harder targets)
- a command detachment with three 4-point HQ (to get the +1 CP i'll use for Veritas Vitae)
- an inquisition detachment, probably with an inquisitor, some servant and/or something else (an assassin??) to deal with his psyker or buff against xeno
- a librarian dreadnaught? don't think i can use it in a patrol detachment... :|
+ if i can, also an aegis fortification


--
Each Uisge
3000 (approx)

some of my work here: https://imgur.com/user/MaleficoKelpie/posts

WH40k - Blood Angels https://imgur.com/a/p5F7u and Imperial Knight https://imgur.com/a/STDmxPF
Necromunda https://imgur.com/a/AQ3xX
Kings of War https://imgur.com/a/x56ods7 
   
Made in au
Calm Celestian




Mephiston and a Sniper Scout Squad? 12PL isn't a lot to work with.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/30 12:39:19


   
Made in it
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




Lammia wrote:
Mephiston and a Sniper Scout Squad? 12PL isn't a lot to work with.
Eh yeah, i know it...
we fixed out at 55 PL, and i have 43 from Knight Crusader (25) and 2x Helverin (18)

besides, you suggest Mephiston, so you suggest i bring a psyker? but he sure will out-psyker me in psy phase; bringing a psyker will mitigate his power or would be a bit useless in the long run?
i was thinking about using sniper or bring a Vindicaire to deal with his characther (probably the psyker)... it is worth?

ps can i use one assassin in an <imperium> detachment, ie an inquisition one? or i need to put them in a assassinorum specific detachment??

--
Each Uisge
3000 (approx)

some of my work here: https://imgur.com/user/MaleficoKelpie/posts

WH40k - Blood Angels https://imgur.com/a/p5F7u and Imperial Knight https://imgur.com/a/STDmxPF
Necromunda https://imgur.com/a/AQ3xX
Kings of War https://imgur.com/a/x56ods7 
   
Made in au
Calm Celestian




each-uisge wrote:
Lammia wrote:
Mephiston and a Sniper Scout Squad? 12PL isn't a lot to work with.
Eh yeah, i know it...
we fixed out at 55 PL, and i have 43 from Knight Crusader (25) and 2x Helverin (18)

besides, you suggest Mephiston, so you suggest i bring a psyker? but he sure will out-psyker me in psy phase; bringing a psyker will mitigate his power or would be a bit useless in the long run?
i was thinking about using sniper or bring a Vindicaire to deal with his characther (probably the psyker)... it is worth?

ps can i use one assassin in an <imperium> detachment, ie an inquisition one? or i need to put them in a assassinorum specific detachment??


If you aren't using the Battle Brothers rule, you can use an Imperial Detachment. That's a standard rule as of Big FAQ 2 this year though, so they should need to be an Assassinorum detachment. The theory behind Mephiston would be to try and deny certain powers that cause particular difficulties and provide some possible melee hits if needed in the late game and making use of all 12 power as you do.
I don't play enough against either BA or Craftworld Eldar to know if it's worth it, but psykers generally range from solid to powerful in any list.

Edit: You mentioned forgetting to properly account for eldar psykers. Meph is potentially fast enough to stop Doom and something else if you want to close the gap with your own Knight.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/01 09:10:26


   
Made in it
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




Lammia wrote:

If you aren't using the Battle Brothers rule, you can use an Imperial Detachment. That's a standard rule as of Big FAQ 2 this year though, so they should need to be an Assassinorum detachment.

Ok... and i guess i can't use just the Vindicaire in an assassinorum detachment, i will need 2 more, right? :|
Lammia wrote:
The theory behind Mephiston would be to try and deny certain powers that cause particular difficulties and provide some possible melee hits if needed in the late game and making use of all 12 power as you do.
I don't play enough against either BA or Craftworld Eldar to know if it's worth it, but psykers generally range from solid to powerful in any list.
Edit: You mentioned forgetting to properly account for eldar psykers. Meph is potentially fast enough to stop Doom and something else if you want to close the gap with your own Knight.
Ok
if i need to put a psyker in the list i put either Mephiston or a Dread Librarian, and if i remember correctly this one is 1 pl more expensive than Mephy...

So in the end: Mephiston and scout seems to me a good choice
(the only downside is Mephiston is a veeeeeery old minis i have on lead and painted long time ago so it's not really appealing... the plus side is that is painted and that's better than 75% of my army )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/01 11:49:17


--
Each Uisge
3000 (approx)

some of my work here: https://imgur.com/user/MaleficoKelpie/posts

WH40k - Blood Angels https://imgur.com/a/p5F7u and Imperial Knight https://imgur.com/a/STDmxPF
Necromunda https://imgur.com/a/AQ3xX
Kings of War https://imgur.com/a/x56ods7 
   
Made in au
Calm Celestian




each-uisge wrote:
Lammia wrote:

If you aren't using the Battle Brothers rule, you can use an Imperial Detachment. That's a standard rule as of Big FAQ 2 this year though, so they should need to be an Assassinorum detachment.

Ok... and i guess i can't use just the Vindicaire in an assassinorum detachment, i will need 2 more, right? :|

You will. You could take an Assassin as a Auxlliary Support Detachment, but that would actually lose 1 command point and you already have precious few of them that you've already planned to spend on things that are more important.

Lammia wrote:
The theory behind Mephiston would be to try and deny certain powers that cause particular difficulties and provide some possible melee hits if needed in the late game and making use of all 12 power as you do.
I don't play enough against either BA or Craftworld Eldar to know if it's worth it, but psykers generally range from solid to powerful in any list.
Edit: You mentioned forgetting to properly account for eldar psykers. Meph is potentially fast enough to stop Doom and something else if you want to close the gap with your own Knight.
Ok
if i need to put a psyker in the list i put either Mephiston or a Dread Librarian, and if i remember correctly this one is 1 pl more expensive than Mephy...

So in the end: Mephiston and scout seems to me a good choice
(the only downside is Mephiston is a veeeeeery old minis i have on lead and painted long time ago so it's not really appealing... the plus side is that is painted and that's better than 75% of my army )

Dread Libbies do cost that one too much, unfortunately. They can only deny 1 power too, which is the value you really want to get out of them.

   
Made in it
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




OK thank you
Mephy and scout then!!

ps: the Mephiston i have is really old. I mean, ok i painted it around 20 years ago and i'm not joking about the years, but the model itself is not changed since then (just is failcast resin now while was lead then)
:|

--
Each Uisge
3000 (approx)

some of my work here: https://imgur.com/user/MaleficoKelpie/posts

WH40k - Blood Angels https://imgur.com/a/p5F7u and Imperial Knight https://imgur.com/a/STDmxPF
Necromunda https://imgur.com/a/AQ3xX
Kings of War https://imgur.com/a/x56ods7 
   
 
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