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So apparently, EVERYONE wants them. Fabius Bile, Montarion (or Typhus), Magnus, the Haemonculi, the Tyranids, and now even the Orks according to Blood of Iax. Knowing the Tau, my money is also on them wanting to dissect some of these bad boys for science and stuff. This is both overused and contrived. I understand the Imperium captures all of its foe to interrogate and dissect them. Hell, the Imperium probably know much more about the Tyranids than any other race in the universe do, more than even the Tyranids know themselves.

My problem with the sudden infatuation with Primaris Marines everyone in the galaxy seems to be having right now is that GW is telling us instead of showing us. The Primaris Marines are the next generation of Mary-sue, that's fine. But seriously, what is it that makes them better than the regular marines? They don't perform that better on the tabletop. They have no named character that has achieved popularity like the old ones. They have some great feats, but nothing the old Space Marines couldn't replicate. There are tens of thousands of Primaris Marines out there, maybe even hundreds of thousands - the strength of Space Marine Legions of old. We learn they are badass because GW keeps telling us that, rather than actually giving a good reason to believe so. It's been more than a year and I still feel like the Primaris Marines are so underdeveloped.

Compared to the other Mary-sues which are the Custodes, the Primaris just fall short. The Custodes is much more fleshed out. They have awesome named characters and their feats are more spectacular. It makes no sense everyone in the universe is after Primaris Marines, at least from the fans' point of view.

Give me one event where the Stormsurge have been employed by someone else AGAINST the Tau. If the Stormsurge is so strong, why aren't the powers of the galaxy craving it as well? Tau technology is the easiest to use because it is completely non-sentient.

Slow down, GW. Anyone here wants more lore development on Primaris Marines before everyone and their mother want to suck on them?

The Imperium improved a well known weapon system, it's only reasonable that their enemies would want to get their hands on them.

Table top performance has nothing to do with the lore.

furthermore Primaris tabletop performance isn't bad AT ALL, if you remember that in real life points don't matter even in table top if you comapre a intercessor marine to a tac marine on a 1 to 1 basis the intercessor is waaay better, combining twice the durability (in real life precisely NO ONE would say "ohh well he sucks, a plasma gun will kill him" that'd say "HOLY gak! I NEEDED A OVER CHARGED PLASMA ROUND JUST TO TAKE THAT SUCKER DOWN!") a intercessor is also MUCH MUCH better in unarmed combat then the tac marine, and has better equipment.

So yeah even if you just look at their table top stats Primaris Marines are pretty impressive.

BrianDavion wrote:
furthermore Primaris tabletop performance isn't bad AT ALL, if you remember that in real life points don't matter even in table top if you comapre a intercessor marine to a tac marine on a 1 to 1 basis the intercessor is waaay better, combining twice the durability (in real life precisely NO ONE would say "ohh well he sucks, a plasma gun will kill him" that'd say "HOLY gak! I NEEDED A OVER CHARGED PLASMA ROUND JUST TO TAKE THAT SUCKER DOWN!") a intercessor is also MUCH MUCH better in unarmed combat then the tac marine, and has better equipment.

So yeah even if you just look at their table top stats Primaris Marines are pretty impressive.

If tabletop does not reflect the lore, show me one battle where the Primaris Marines win against an odd that completely blow all the old Marines out of the water. Remember there was a single Space Marine who rallied a bunch of primitive humans and empower them with faith, ending up repelling a full scale daemon invasion in the end? What feats have Primaris Marines achieved that normal Space Marines are fully incapable of?

Custodes have also had WAAAAAY more time to be fleshed out in a slower and natural manner. I first encountered them way back in 2004 when I fell in love with bunch of Horus heresy Custodes art work in the issue. (Which was responsible for me getting into 40k at all!)

And since that time they have had small mentions or cameos in lore build up to being major movers and pushers. But it's because they have had all that time to come to the fore front.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Custodes have also had WAAAAAY more time to be fleshed out in a slower and natural manner. I first encountered them way back in 2004 when I fell in love with bunch of Horus heresy Custodes art work in the issue. (Which was responsible for me getting into 40k at all!)

And since that time they have had small mentions or cameos in lore build up to being major movers and pushers. But it's because they have had all that time to come to the fore front.

Primaris Marines are new and they're still being intergrated into the setting, give GW ten years and they'll be a fixture of the setting, well understood and widely accepted

I mostly agree- I think there is a chance that so far down the road after Primaris marines become the default marines model wise they might stop making the distinction.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
I mostly agree- I think there is a chance that so far down the road after Primaris marines become the default marines model wise they might stop making the distinction.

oddly I hope not, there's a lot of potential for story in an era where standard marines and primaris serve alongside one another, the space wolf codex was REALLY good for this IMHO, it gave the impression that Primaris Marines have been accepted the intergration is ongoing, but there's still a little bit of awkwardness as the Marines feel each other out.

I'm mostly ambivalent; they aren't the WORST lore as some people make them out to be, but I wish Primaris had been tied into the background better when they were being rolled out. Like, I LOVE the thought of the 'cursed founding' being essentially a beta test for the Primaris project. But while such straws were there to be grasped they were ignored.

But really between the Custodes, a finally starting to get interesting fantasy, and now Rogue traders (I'm hoping for an inquisition like codex for them with lots of options, and lots, and lots, and lots of henchmen options) and the sparkle of new IG regiments on the horizon (Necromunda palantine enforcers at the least; the enforcers and the new Voidsmen being a possibility) I havent had much reason to pursue any variant of Astartes or their lore :/

Carlovonsexron wrote:
I'm mostly ambivalent; they aren't the WORST lore as some people make them out to be, but I wish Primaris had been tied into the background better when they were being rolled out. Like, I LOVE the thought of the 'cursed founding' being essentially a beta test for the Primaris project. But while such straws were there to be grasped they were ignored.

But really between the Custodes, a finally starting to get interesting fantasy, and now Rogue traders (I'm hoping for an inquisition like codex for them with lots of options, and lots, and lots, and lots of henchmen options) and the sparkle of new IG regiments on the horizon (Necromunda palantine enforcers at the least; the enforcers and the new Voidsmen being a possibility) I havent had much reason to pursue any variant of Astartes or their lore :/

I suspect we're going to see it expanded slowly, Guy Haley seems to be working at developing Cawl as a character, for example.

bibotot wrote:
I have a problem with the Primaris Marines depiction.

I have a problem with the Primaris Marines, period.

bibotot wrote:
But seriously, what is it that makes them better than the regular marines?

They're bigger, stronger, faster and have better technology. They're likely to see a lot more action than the Custodes, and unlike them be comparatively easy to replicate. I've yet to read Blood of Iax, so I'm not sure why Orks would care aside from the fact that they're bigger than the old Marines, but it's easy to see why Chaos fellows and mad flesh crafters like the Haemonculi would want them.

Primaris Marines are the kind of "the same, but BETTER" escalation that only really works to make the antagonists scarier, and even then it usually isn't interesting. Primaris Marines just can't be better heroes from a narrative perspective than regular Marines already are.

In addition to me not liking the fluff, I don't like how they are being integrated on the table top. Not allowing any cross over units, no sharing vehicles and even deathwatch doesn't allow mixed units for "reasons". The idea of a space marine not being able to get into a drop pod is just silly. They would click better if it felt like the two marine subgroups had at least a bit of over lap but instead they feel like they should almost be two separate armies.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
In addition to me not liking the fluff, I don't like how they are being integrated on the table top. Not allowing any cross over units, no sharing vehicles and even deathwatch doesn't allow mixed units for "reasons". The idea of a space marine not being able to get into a drop pod is just silly. They would click better if it felt like the two marine subgroups had at least a bit of over lap but instead they feel like they should almost be two separate armies.

I agree on that, mixed squads seem silly, and I can totally understand no primaris in rhinos, but IMHO land raiders and storm ravens should be able to carry them like terminators.

If a rhino can carry Plague Marines or Rubrics, then Primaris should be able to cram in. Make them count as two maybe but it's dumb that GW is purging so much of the classic marine line.

I don't see it as purging so much as I see it as them trying to make primaris their own distinct thing.

I'm not so sure why GW won't let Primaris use traditional marine transports. If anything I would think it would drive up sales of said vehicles and transports.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I'm not so sure why GW won't let Primaris use traditional marine transports. If anything I would think it would drive up sales of said vehicles and transports.

Because they wanted to sell the new kits no-one had as yet.

Can someone tell me why Orks want them according to this Blood of Lax business?

GW is slowly trying to convince everyone that old Marines are obsolete. This will help GW in the future for when they bust out a Primaris only codex. Everyone will be so convinced that the old Marines are bad they will want new Marines.

Personally I love their look. They hit harder on table too.

Lore wise, if I was a “bad guy” fighting the Imperium and they just busted out a new super soldier... you bet your behind I would want to figure them out.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Can someone tell me why Orks want them according to this Blood of Lax business?

I'm gonna take a guess that it's a typical case of internet hyperbole. one Ork Warbase develops a fascination with fighting "tha big beakies!" (Orks TEND to occasionally develop bizzare quirks and traits) and suddenly "everyone wants primaris"

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Can someone tell me why Orks want them according to this Blood of Lax business?

I'm currently reading through it and they don't seem to be. The Warboss seems to want the Apothecary, and it's probably because he's sick and likely thinks the Apothecary can fix him.

Would it be extremely cynical to see it as a way to make each Space Marine model bigger as part of GW's drive to make each individual model more expensive?

I've always had a bit of an issue with the depiction of Space Marines as super-uber-ultra warriors anyway, when a squad can easily be picked apart by a bunch of gretchin with autoguns (perhaps that's not so likely in the current version of the game but it's my experience!).

RobS wrote:
Would it be extremely cynical to see it as a way to make each Space Marine model bigger as part of GW's drive to make each individual model more expensive?

I've always had a bit of an issue with the depiction of Space Marines as super-uber-ultra warriors anyway, when a squad can easily be picked apart by a bunch of gretchin with autoguns (perhaps that's not so likely in the current version of the game but it's my experience!).

TBF its even worse now we have 8th, that gretchin can take down a Thunderhawk....akthough in my case it was a bolt pistol.

To be fair if marines played like they did in the fluff then you would need to buy about 5 of them. Most units have a disconnect between background and table top.

bibotot wrote:
So apparently, EVERYONE wants them. Fabius Bile, Montarion (or Typhus), Magnus, the Haemonculi, the Tyranids, and now even the Orks according to Blood of Iax. Knowing the Tau, my money is also on them wanting to dissect some of these bad boys for science and stuff. This is both overused and contrived. I understand the Imperium captures all of its foe to interrogate and dissect them. Hell, the Imperium probably know much more about the Tyranids than any other race in the universe do, more than even the Tyranids know themselves.

My problem with the sudden infatuation with Primaris Marines everyone in the galaxy seems to be having right now is that GW is telling us instead of showing us. The Primaris Marines are the next generation of Mary-sue, that's fine. But seriously, what is it that makes them better than the regular marines? They don't perform that better on the tabletop. They have no named character that has achieved popularity like the old ones. They have some great feats, but nothing the old Space Marines couldn't replicate. There are tens of thousands of Primaris Marines out there, maybe even hundreds of thousands - the strength of Space Marine Legions of old. We learn they are badass because GW keeps telling us that, rather than actually giving a good reason to believe so. It's been more than a year and I still feel like the Primaris Marines are so underdeveloped.

Compared to the other Mary-sues which are the Custodes, the Primaris just fall short. The Custodes is much more fleshed out. They have awesome named characters and their feats are more spectacular. It makes no sense everyone in the universe is after Primaris Marines, at least from the fans' point of view.

Give me one event where the Stormsurge have been employed by someone else AGAINST the Tau. If the Stormsurge is so strong, why aren't the powers of the galaxy craving it as well? Tau technology is the easiest to use because it is completely non-sentient.

Slow down, GW. Anyone here wants more lore development on Primaris Marines before everyone and their mother want to suck on them?

Chaos wanting them is completely apt, where do you think they get a lot of their geneseed; from loyalists. As for Fabius, he is a scientist, of course he wants to uncover its secrets, have you read a fabius book, his crew value pregenoids like nothing else, they are invaluable.

Primaris work great on the table top. 2 wounds is so important in 8th for astartes as they are overcost with 1 wound. I suggest you play them. Also, one marine is the match for 100 guardsmen, if they played like the lore, they'd be so OP.

Animus wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Can someone tell me why Orks want them according to this Blood of Lax business?

I'm currently reading through it and they don't seem to be. The Warboss seems to want the Apothecary, and it's probably because he's sick and likely thinks the Apothecary can fix him.

If that is the case, he would need the Techmarine, not the Apothecary.

Gotta push those Primaris sales!

God I fething hate them.

bibotot wrote:
So apparently, EVERYONE wants them. Fabius Bile, Montarion (or Typhus), Magnus, the Haemonculi, the Tyranids, and now even the Orks according to Blood of Iax.

I won't argue the others, but Orks are the one race I'd expect to be the most excited to see Primaris. They're entire culture is built around "bigger is better" and would see the new guys as a better scrap than the original Astartes. I'd be more confused to see Orks not be excited about a new thing to scrap with.

Also considering Space Marines gave Nids the Tyrant Guard (and possibly Hive Guard), I'm curious to see what that Godmaker gland will unlock for Nids.