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Hello!

I'd love to build a Tau force, but, I've got NO experience with them, playing with or against.

I'm looking for help building a fun and competitve list.

Things I like about them:

1) The models! Well, most of them.

I really like the Crisis suits. And the new Stealth suits (I know!). Broadsides, Piranhas (I got the 3 for the price of 2 splash release!) and Hammerheads.

I guess everything except  Ethereals and Vespids.

2) The mobile firepower aspect.

Things I don't like:

1) Well, the cost of the models! Obviously! By that I mean they're expensive (especially the Crisis and Broadside Suits!) - I don't want to make a mistake and buy the wrong thing...

I've got two boxes of Kroot warriors (I was going to use them as leaping mutants in a LaTD force, but I've shelved that idea) and 3 Piranhas.

I'd like to go "Crisis Heavy".

Some questions:

1) Are Stealth Suits worth taking at all over more Crisis suits?
2) Are Broadsides worth taking instead of another Hammerhead?
3) Is the Ion Cannon ever worth taking over the Railgun?

And, if someone can help build a list, please don't use too many of the standard abbreviations and/or code names, as I'm not quite sure what they all stand for or mean!

Thanks!.

Decode:
Fireknife: plasma/missilepod/multitracker suit
JSJ: jump, shoot, jump
FCW: fire caste warrior - fire warrior

1) You can't go wrong buying a bunch of crisis suits. They are basically of a similar value to stealth suits point for point. It depends on your local metagame and what your army does well, whether they are good or not.

2) With broadsides my conclusion is you'll do better taking all broadsides or all hammerheads but not a mix. having any fewer than 3 hh's drastically decreases their effectiveness, so if you don't have 3 I wouldn't bother.

3) Still no, the flexibility of the railgun at throwing a S6 Ap4 large blast that doesn't scatter is too great. It gives you a huge super-secret weapon vs. orks, tau, necrons, nids, and so on.

If you're doing a conventional army, your list should generally start with:
2 x super crisis hqs with plasma/missile pod and targeting array/multitracker.

You can mix them with plasma/fusion or plasma/CIB or missile pod/burst cannon or really any way you want, but untargetable JSJ guys with BS5 are the best buy in your army, flat out. The will rarely give up their vps and will always kick butt. independent characters rule when they have move and shoot heavy weapons.

Then you grab 3 x 2 fireknife suits. I wouldn't put anything on them more than a multitracker to be honest. Lots of people are adding shield drones but this just makes them harder to JSJ in my opinion.

Troops should probably be either devilfish squads or a single squad (With or without a markerlight) and a bunch of kroot. I like 8man devilfish squads with SMS, target array, multitracker, decoy launcher (I basically play VP denial with them and hide them in the backfield vs. most opponents).

Heavies are going to be either something like 3 railheads, sms, decoy, target lock, multitracker -- or you could do 3 x broadside team leaders with 2 shield drones and plasma/multitracker/ASS (these guys seem to go great with a crisis list since they can move and shoot and can help mop up marine squads if they run out of vehicles to gak).

Fast attack can be some pathfinder squads instead of devilfish FCW squads, or it can be 3 x single pirahnas.

Then you have some alternate lists:

Shadowsun,
Crisis w/3 bodyguards and a butt ton of shield drones

3 x 3 crisis with tons of shield drones, TLPR or TLMP
1 x min-sized FCW
2 x small kroot squads
3 x 2 broadsides, ASS - team leader with tlpr, multitracker, shield drones

And then you have the Farsight list:
Uber Farsight retinue - 7 shield-drone bearing crisis suits with a mix of weaponry, targetlocks and a failsafe detonator
A hammerhead, small troops, and some broadsides and crisis suits

That pretty much covers it. Some people use a mix of stealths/crisis in the elites. Some don't. that's the main argument these days.

Hey, thanks for the advice!

Looks like I've got a lot of Crisis suits to buy...

Two more quick questions:

1) If I do field a team, what is the best size and loadout for them?

2) What are the other "good" Crisis configurations? Deathrain? Anything else? (Especially, is anything with a flamer good to use?)

And, thanks again!

Longshot did a good job of covering the basics, but I disagree with the 3 Hammerhead comment. Sure, three of them work well, but I haven't encountered any problems in running two along with a pair of Broadsides. Of course, to each his own.

When it comes to Crisis suits, you'll only want to take them in a squad of three if you've got markerlight support. That lets you boost the BS of all of them using a single markerlight hit. If you don't have markerlights, break them up as much as you can so that they're easier to hide and harder for your opponent to chase down. Of course, this gets harder to do as games get bigger, so don't be afraid to fill out your squads if you want to squeeze more suits in.

Shield drones are a judgement call, largely dependent upon the amount of terrain you have to work with on a regular basis. They help if terrain is sparse and you have a hard time finding places for all your units, but as terrain becomes more dense, you can often get your suits into a position where they can't be shot at all, so the drones become unnecessary.

If you don't use markerlights, or if your Elite slots are starting to fill up, you can always take a Team Leader with a Target Array and hardwire his Multitracker for some added accuracy.

When it comes to configurations, Fireknife is the most reliable and versatile, so it's always a good idea to have a few of them around. I also personally like the Plasma/Burst/Multitracker loadout for anti-infantry work. Some people use Missile/Burst/Multitracker or Plasma/Fusion/Multitracker, but I'm not personally a fan of those. Feel free to give them a try, though. I've found Deathrain suits are most useful in lower points games, or as a supplement to any Railguns you take, but tend to get pushed aside for other, less specialized configurations as point totals get higher. They do well against any opponent who has a lot of light armor like Landspeeders, Trukks, Vypers, or Raiders. They're also not bad against Eldar tanks, since they rely on volume of shots and aren't above S8. Alternately, they can be used as Genestealer-killers. Along with the twin missile, you'd be best off giving them a Target Array, a Target Lock, or a Flamer. Honestly, the flamer is just too risky a weapon under most circumstances. The only time I'd ever use it is as the third hardpoint on a Deathrain suit, to keep the overall cost low and to give the suit a bit more versatility.

Special issue equipment is generally not amazing, but a few of the pieces have uses. The CIB is the best of the bunch, making for a nice pairing with Plasma on a Commander. Never take the AFP on an HQ suit, since it doesn't take advantage of his higher BS. If you use it at all (I use it every once in a while, but not on a regular basis), it's best on an Elite suit, either with a twinlinked Burst Cannon, or as the third hardpoint on a Deathrain Team Leader, with a hardwired Target Lock. Vectored Thrusters and the C&C Node both have their uses as well, but you have to build around them to make them work, so I wouldn't recommend them for competitive play.

That's all I can think of for now. Best of luck!

Does the following stealth team sound OK?

5 Shas'ui w/ burst cannon
1 Shas'vre w/ fusion blaster, bonding knife and target lock

Cost is 202 points.

Can put out a lot of str 5 shots (15) with a threat range of 24" (if they move up 6" before firing!), and the Shas'vre has a chance of taking a pot shot at targets of opportunity.

Or, is it taking up a slot better filled by more Crisis suits?

I don't have as much experience as a lot of the other tau players on this forum, but I have to state my opinion, just for what it's worth.

Stealth suits rock. Before the latest codex came out lots of people were running 2 or 3 stealth squads, and I still think some stealths are viable.

I will always take a 6 man squad. They can pump out some good shots, and are relatively hard to hit.

I think that 6 are a good addition to any army. Then again, I only take 3 suits in 1500pts, and 5 in 1850pts, so maybe i'm not the best guy to ask.

Chuck

Why the Shas'vre ? TmLd is enough. And a TL is also fairly pointless.

IMO there are two different SS squads one can choose from, the rest isn't worth it.
1.) 6 SS @190pts: TmLd w/ BK.
2.) 3 SS @160pts: 6 GDs. TmLd w/ BK.

Personally I'd only take the second one when you have very little terrain and are sure that you're not facing any whirlwinds. But those are the only two configs that are worth spending an Elite slot on.

Oh, and putting Fusion on SS is not a good idea.

By doing so you either don't shoot it, and so are losing the firepower of 30pts of suit, in your case even more, or you do shoot it. If you do shoot it it means that at the end of your turn you are within rapid fire range and are also within the average spotting distance of roughly 22".

Good points!

I guess I was tempted to arm a Stealth Suit with a Fusion Gun "just in case". But it really doesn't seem like a good idea at all now!

Good catch on the "team leader" upgrade vs. Shas'vre! Not being too familiar with Tau, I totally missed that option!

Again, thanks for the input...

i havent played tau for now but thought quite some time about them and had similar questions.

i personaly think that shield drones would do well, as S8 shots kill your suites instant and youll want to have those drones against missilelauncher vs XV8 and/or lascannons vs XV88. i woundnt look that much at the +4 saving throw. the main reason to buy them is the hitpoint vs instant kill weapons. tau seem to have a problem here with T4.

XV88 vs Railhead :
lets assume
A) Railhead 187pts: SMs, multi, target lock, decoy, d-pod if seen on Mephet'ran`s list and
B) 80pts XV88 with that movement addition for 10 pts.
C) 80pts XV88 with +BS.

hits each turn/price of unit (bigger result is better)
A) 0.003565 = (4/6)/187
B) 0.009375 = [(3/6)+(3/6)*(3/6)]/80
C) 0.011111 = [(4/6)+(2/6)*(4/6)]/80

we can see here allready that XV88 has its advantage in dealing more hits for fewer points each turn. the B) configuration allready is better vs A) at factor 2.6, onfiguration C) is better then A) by factor 3.1

now of to the disadvantage, beeing shot by lascannon S9 DS2 (or was it DS1 ?).we can take out the chance to hit as its the same in all cases.

P := chance to wound ;in cases of non vehicle unit
Q := chance to penetrate armor ;assuming front armor 13 in case of vehicle
R := chance to destroy unit ;in cases of vehicle, assuming glancing hits only because of range greater then 12",assuming vehicle has moved, assuming reroll on glancing hit table result 5 is taken if needed)

P*W*R*price of unit = points lost in avarage to a single hit (smaler result is better)
A) 1*3/6*[1/6+1/6*(1/6+1/6)]*187 = 20.77
B) 5/6*1*1*80 = 66.66
C) 5/6*1*1*80 = 66.66

what we see here so - outch ! lascannons will destroy ~3 times more points of XV88 then points of Hammerheads. of course you can reduce that to aprox 3/2 = 1.5 if your in 4+ cover with your XV88 which should be possible. even more if you use configuration c) which is quite immobile.

lets assume rocket launchers as opponents
P*W*R*price of unit = points lost in avarage to a single hit (smaler result is better)
A) 1*2/6*[1/6+1/6*(1/6+1/6)]*187  = 13.85
B) 5/6*1/6*1*80 = 11.11
C) 5/6*1/6*1*80 = 11.11

this looks a lot better, because the XV88 can bring in its 2+ armor save which isnt denied by S8 DS3 rocket launchers. we now have more points lost at the hammerhead then at the XV88.

lets compare the better shooting efficencie of the XV88 and there worse behavior against lascannons together vs the same stats of the hammerhead. (does the hammerheads lack of firepower but its better armor work out ?).this is not dependent on the type of target, because all out configuration use the same weapons and are assumed to fight the same unit which will only bring in a few factors (same factors in all 3 cases) in the upper part of the division -> all 3 results are just scaled by the same amount.

shooting rails and beeing shot at with lascannons (bigger result is better)
A) 0.003565/20.77 = 0.0001716
B) 0.009375/66.66 = 0.0001406
C) 0.011111/66.66 = 0.0001666

shooting rails and beeing shot at with rocket launchers (bigger result is better)
A) 0.003565/13.85 = 0.0002574
B) 0.009375/11.11 = 0.0008438
C) 0.011111/11.11 = 0.0010000

in the end : if you get shot by lascannons the hammerhead will beform a bit better then the XV88.in a duell with rocket launchers which cannont denie the XV88 to do its armor save we can see the advantage of the XV88 which is in this case more cost effective by factor ~3 to ~4

-> keep your XV88 away from weapons that denie your armor save and they are the better choice.
-> if not beeing shot at at all the XV88 is the better choice because it just deals more damage for the same ammount of points
-> shoot at XV88 first :p

- the XV88 makes much more out of markerlights as the units size is bigger and they have TL weapons.
- the hammerhead is far more agile and has no chance of beeing harmed by massive small arms fire. its agility is probably the main argument for the hammerhead even when looking at the very poor pure shooting/beeing shot at behavior against anything that doesnt benetrate armor 2+ of the railhead.

the stamement that you should use 9 XV88 or 3 railheads but not a combination could have its roots in the plan to alpha strike the opponents AV 2+ penetrating weapons in the first round if you only field XV88.not that risky as the XV88s behavior against lascannons is not that much worse then the behavior of the hammerhead. if it works it would leave you off with far more static firepower. as the XV88 also has 3 times as many SMS they will have an even better performance then in the pure railgun example above when shooting meqs or even IG carriing lascannons in theire hands. this plan might work.

the railhead is faster, more agile, it has less firepower but more armor. it doesnst have to be absolutly aware of armor 2+ penetrating weapons which makes it usefull in a very general way. the XV88 is far more specialiesed - its quite static, has far more firepower which weights more then its problem with 2+ armor benetrating weapons.

sorry for the heap of numbers, but in rare and mostly unimportant cases they are not worse then the "it is better because i can feel it" argument.

edit : this text was edited a lot. yesterday at 4.30 at night i realy messed up some numbers. sorry for that. should be correct now.also summs up to a very different conclusions then the version from yesterday morning.

edited post above. corrected many mistakes. see last paragraph.