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If I have the ability to regenerate CPs on a roll of 5+, I am by the new FAQ limited to one such CP per battle round.

Can I still regenerate all before the first battle round? If I burn two for cover save army wide for example?

torblind wrote:
If I have the ability to regenerate CPs on a roll of 5+, I am by the new FAQ limited to one such CP per battle round.

Can I still regenerate all before the first battle round? If I burn two for cover save army wide for example?

I would say you can regenerate an unlimited amount, as before. "In matched play games, each player can only gain or have refunded a total of one Command Point per battle round as the result of such rules, regardless of the source." Since you're rolling before the game begins, it cannot by definition be in a battle round, thus you use the same regenerating rules we had before this new limitation.

 Ghaz wrote:
It would be helpful if you were to mention which army and what the ability in question is.

Also this. With the bespoke nature of 8th edition we need to know the exact rule in question before we can help.

torblind wrote:
If I have the ability to regenerate CPs on a roll of 5+, I am by the new FAQ limited to one such CP per battle round.

Can I still regenerate all before the first battle round? If I burn two for cover save army wide for example?

It would be helpful if you were to mention which army and what the ability in question is.

 Ghaz wrote:

torblind wrote:
If I have the ability to regenerate CPs on a roll of 5+, I am by the new FAQ limited to one such CP per battle round.

Can I still regenerate all before the first battle round? If I burn two for cover save army wide for example?

It would be helpful if you were to mention which army and what the ability in question is.

Well I only own the necron codex, in which there is a Warlord trait, so with the WL deployed and on the table I would play the strat.

AM I believe rely on a relic, but it would be similar right, the model just has to be on the table? I thought this was the general way this was achieved so didn't specify

Well, this is a bit tricky. A battle round is my turn and my opponents turn. A battle round is over when both players had their turn. If the necron player starts the battle round anything that happens before his turn is not in a battle round, thus not limited to the regain only 1 CP per battle round rule. If the necron player has the second turn in a battle round anything that happens after his turn is not in a battle round, not limited to only 1 CP. Of course deployment is always not in a battle round, no matter who goes first. Necrons have rules/stratagems happening before the turn, and at least one stratagem happening at the end of the turn. Of course your warlord must already be on the table to try to regain CPs. So deploy him, then use translocation crypt multiple times if you want, and roll for each CP you spent.

 p5freak wrote:
Well, this is a bit tricky. A battle round is my turn and my opponents turn. A battle round is over when both players had their turn. If the necron player starts the battle round anything that happens before his turn is not in a battle round, thus not limited to the regain only 1 CP per battle round rule. If the necron player has the second turn in a battle round anything that happens after his turn is not in a battle round, not limited to only 1 CP. Of course deployment is always not in a battle round, no matter who goes first. Necrons have rules/stratagems happening before the turn, and at least one stratagem happening at the end of the turn. Of course your warlord must already be on the table to try to regain CPs. So deploy him, then use translocation crypt multiple times if you want, and roll for each CP you spent.

That's not how it works. Like, at all. Battle Rounds contain two Turns. Anything that happens on the first turn is also the first battle round. You don't magically stop being in a battle round because you go second.

Thats how it works.

Core rules pg. 2 :

Once both players have
completed a turn, the battle round
has been completed and the next
one begins, and so on, until the
battle is concluded.

When i have the second turn the battle round is also completed when my turn is completed. A stratagem that i play at the end of my turn is not in a battle round. Same principle applies to the start. If i go first strategems i play before my turn arent in a battle round.

 p5freak wrote:
Thats how it works.

Core rules pg. 2 :

Once both players have
completed a turn, the battle round
has been completed and the next
one begins, and so on, until the
battle is concluded.

When i have the second turn the battle round is also completed when my turn is completed. A stratagem that i play at the end of my turn is not in a battle round. Same principle applies to the start. If i go first strategems i play before my turn arent in a battle round.

...? I really don't see how that makes sense to you at all. Turns in their entirety are within battle rounds. The start of the turn is during a battle round. The end of a turn is during a battle round. You have not completed your turn until you move past the end of your turn. Until you move past the end of your turn you are still in a battle round.

Not this argument again.

The end of the turn is the end of your morale phase. It isn't some magical psudo-there-but-not-there phase-but-not-a-phase.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Not this argument again.

The end of the turn is the end of your morale phase. It isn't some magical psudo-there-but-not-there phase-but-not-a-phase.

No. We have been through this. Necrons have a stratagem which is played at the end of your turn. If that end of turn didn't exist they wouldn't have written that. They would have written at the end of your morale phase. But they didn't. So there is the end of your turn, and it's not at the end of the morale phase.

The end of your turn is the same as the end of your morale phase.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Well, this is a bit tricky. A battle round is my turn and my opponents turn. A battle round is over when both players had their turn. If the necron player starts the battle round anything that happens before his turn is not in a battle round, thus not limited to the regain only 1 CP per battle round rule. If the necron player has the second turn in a battle round anything that happens after his turn is not in a battle round, not limited to only 1 CP. Of course deployment is always not in a battle round, no matter who goes first. Necrons have rules/stratagems happening before the turn, and at least one stratagem happening at the end of the turn. Of course your warlord must already be on the table to try to regain CPs. So deploy him, then use translocation crypt multiple times if you want, and roll for each CP you spent.

That's not how it works. Like, at all. Battle Rounds contain two Turns. Anything that happens on the first turn is also the first battle round. You don't magically stop being in a battle round because you go second.

The stratagem the OP was talking about is shown in the article about the Big FAQ 2. Prepared positions says "Use this stratagem at the start of the first battle round, before the first turn begins". So, GW has established with the stratagem that there is a point in the first battle round that still happens before the first turn.

Since it's before first turn, you're not in a phase, so you should be able to try to recover the points if you had a way before the FAQ to recover CP before the first turn.

If a stratagem is used at the start of the first battle round but before the first turn begins then it is by its own wording in the first battle round so would be included in the restriction!

Sprugly

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Not this argument again.

The end of the turn is the end of your morale phase. It isn't some magical psudo-there-but-not-there phase-but-not-a-phase.

Except that the rules show that it is.

Fragile wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Not this argument again.

The end of the turn is the end of your morale phase. It isn't some magical psudo-there-but-not-there phase-but-not-a-phase.

Except that the rules show that it is.

The rules show the exact opposite.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Not this argument again.

The end of the turn is the end of your morale phase. It isn't some magical psudo-there-but-not-there phase-but-not-a-phase.

Except that the rules show that it is.

The rules show the exact opposite.

Citation please. I quoted the relevant rule above.

Once both players have
completed a turn, the battle round
has been completed and the next
one begins, and so on, until the
battle is concluded.

"End of your turn" is a distinct moment after your morale phase that is outside of any phases but still within the battle round.

It is part of your turn where you use the sequencing rules to apply the order of operations if you have multiple abilities and strategems that can/must be used at this point.

"Beginning of your turn" is the same, before your movement phase.

GW has also stated that there is an "end of battle round" and "beginning of battle round" where certain abilities, strategems, and effects take place. These are also within thier respective battle rounds.

Finally there is a "before the first battle round" which is usually after all deployment. This is the only place that is completely outside of battle rounds and would allow for multiple CP (re)generation in the new rules.

If the strat in question is what Doctortom quoted, it is within a battle round and subject to the new rules.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


Finally there is a "before the first battle round" which is usually after all deployment. This is the only place that is completely outside of battle rounds and would allow for multiple CP (re)generation in the new rules.

"In matched play games, each player can only gain or have refunded a total of one Command Point per battle round as the result of such rules, regardless of the source."

tech couldn't it also be ruled, you cant get anything outside the battle rounds?

moonsmite wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


Finally there is a "before the first battle round" which is usually after all deployment. This is the only place that is completely outside of battle rounds and would allow for multiple CP (re)generation in the new rules.

"In matched play games, each player can only gain or have refunded a total of one Command Point per battle round as the result of such rules, regardless of the source."

tech couldn't it also be ruled, you cant get anything outside the battle rounds?

they didn't specifically state that, though. You'd still be able to recoup CP's during deployment the same way you did before the new rule; if you could before you still can.

It seems pretty clear cut to me. Some strategems say at the start of the Battle Round. That pretty much tells you the Battle Round has started and you will not get more than 1 CP back. Other strats happen in the deployment phase (webway strike, teleportarium, etc). these will be able to be farmed as normal. There are also strats that happen before the battle (additional relics etc), like before, these cannot be farmed.

There doesn't seem to be any room for error here, not sure what some people are reading?

sprugly wrote:
If a stratagem is used at the start of the first battle round but before the first turn begins then it is by its own wording in the first battle round so would be included in the restriction!

Sprugly

Fair enough, for some reason I was thinking phases like stratagems. You're right, this would be part of the battle round still, so would be under the restriction. There's still things before the first battle round, however, so there might still be cases of people rolling for more than one CP if they have the right abilities/stratagems and are dropping CP's right and left like their pre-1st round stratagems are K-Mart blue light specials that they must have.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
"End of your turn" is a distinct moment after your morale phase that is outside of any phases but still within the battle round.

Can you show me that line in the rulebook please, I cannot seem to find it.

 doctortom wrote:

moonsmite wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


Finally there is a "before the first battle round" which is usually after all deployment. This is the only place that is completely outside of battle rounds and would allow for multiple CP (re)generation in the new rules.

"In matched play games, each player can only gain or have refunded a total of one Command Point per battle round as the result of such rules, regardless of the source."

tech couldn't it also be ruled, you cant get anything outside the battle rounds?

they didn't specifically state that, though. You'd still be able to recoup CP's during deployment the same way you did before the new rule; if you could before you still can.

Could be read as that: "can only gain or have refunded... One... Per battle round..." Could be read as an absolute, or a restriction. Clearly, it is meant as a restriction for the specified timing; but I could see how some would try to claim it as a technical absolute (literally only able to gain or regen during a battle round).

BCB: Can you show me in the rulebook where the end of the morale phase is synonymous with the end of turn? Or that the "start of your turn" = "start of your movement phase"? Just... Stop.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
"End of your turn" is a distinct moment after your morale phase that is outside of any phases but still within the battle round.

Can you show me that line in the rulebook please, I cannot seem to find it.

Page 215. You should go back to the other thread and continue this there, rather than derailing this one.

Dont confuse phase with battle round. Pg. 215 is all about phases. Thats not what we are talking about here.

 p5freak wrote:
Dont confuse phase with battle round. Pg. 215 is all about phases. Thats not what we are talking about here.

Thread question has been answered.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Could be read as that: "can only gain or have refunded... One... Per battle round..." Could be read as an absolute, or a restriction. Clearly, it is meant as a restriction for the specified timing; but I could see how some would try to claim it as a technical absolute (literally only able to gain or regen during a battle round).

That's the issue though. It's not clear at all whether it's absolute or a restriction for during battle rounds. By your own admission it could be read both ways.

Until GW clarify the use of CP generation during deployment as they have with stratagems I'd err on the side of caution and not do it. For what it's worth, this also, in my opinion, fits better with the narrative theme that GW are seeking to preserve.

And I would err on the side of caution and take the most permissive option and allow it

U02dah4 wrote:
And I would err on the side of caution and take the most permissive option and allow it

For yourself or your opponent? If the latter, then yes that would be one way to handle it, but I wouldn't say that taking the most permissive option for yourself is the side of caution, certainly if you didn't speak about it to your opponent beforehand. The side of caution would really be talking about it with your opponent and coming to an agreement before it becomes an issue.

As a general recommendation for this rule. The answer of have a discussion before each game over how to interpret rules is not a good option as it causes significant variation.

Whether it was me or my opponent. I don't see that it changes based on whether I am running it or someone else. One option is more restrictive than the other I would go with the more permissive interpretation untill such time as there is further clarity on the issue. If my opponents do this at my next GT i certainly wont complain. I wont be however useing it myself due to my list.