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Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Earlobe deep in doo doo

Anybody else noticed that Kickstarters for miniature games have slowed down a lot this past year? Less people seem to be backing and less interest has been shown I thought it might be interesting to discuss why? For me a lot of Kickstarters seem to be going for very similar products that already have available direct competition which make me less interested. I might really like Bob's Undead Pirates but if Bill already has them available why not buy the ones already out there? Also discussing it here means it won't derail any of the current Kickstarter pages as well.

"But me no buts! Our comrades get hurt. Our friends die. Falkenburg is a knight who swore an oath to serve the church and to defend the weak. He'd be the first to tell you to stop puling and start planning. Because what we are doing-at risk to ourselves-is what we have sworn to do. The West relies on us. It is a risk we take with pride. It is an oath we honour. Even when some soft southern burgher mutters about us, we know the reason he sleeps soft and comfortable, why his wife is able to complain about the price of cabbages as her most serious problem and why his children dare to throw dung and yell "Knot" when we pass. It's because we are what we are. For all our faults we stand for law and light.
Von Gherens This Rough Magic Lackey, Flint & Freer
Mekagorkalicious -Monkeytroll
2017 Model Count-71
 
   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



York, PA USA

I have been expecting some sort of burn out or saturation. Surprising it took this long.

Interesting, thanks for pointing this out. It will be factored in to future plans.
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Bristol, England

GW's release schedule has been pretty intense and the quality has been getting better.
It's possible that they're clawing back customers.

Also plenty of people have now had the chance to have been disappointed by Kickstarter by now. Not just the long waits or unfulfilled exceptions but more the fact that it's damn near impossible to find people to play against.
The enthusiasm fades pretty fast after the initial buzz.
Hands up who's got a kickstarter bundle sitting on a shelf basically unused.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/30 22:47:09


Oli: Can I be an orc?
Everyone: No.
Oli: But it fits through the doors, Look! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

I wonder if less projects are being launched, too, or maybe backers are focusing on projects that more of a sure thing? It would be really interesting to see some stats from Kickstarter on this...
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Armpit of NY

I doubt Kickstarter will ever share any info with us. These are the same people with a 'We got paid' attitude when a Kickstarter is outright fraud, so I doubt they will share any business info.

Meanwhile, I think any slowdown is simply market oversaturation. There are too many games out there nowadays, and even being a good one is not a guarantee of success.

Steve Jackson Games is one of the few companies in the industry to share info on their sales and decision making process, even though they don't have to as a private company.

A few months ago, their CEO Phil Reed shared this state of the industry/company message -
http://www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/July_11_2018

Should we dismiss it as if they have just made poor decisions, or when a major independent says the industry is in a rough spot, are they the canary in the coal mine of trouble ahead?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/30 23:17:40


 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

I haven't seen any sign of slow down on a whole. There are many companies, like CMON and Mantic, ramping up campaign after campaign. Many smaller companies are on their third or fourth campaign. There may be less interest per campaign, but it seems to be an effect of increased competition.

   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well, there are at least very few Mierce Miniatures ones. Raging Heroes has been inactive for quite some time.
Other companies did one a year ago and are still working things out.

So it is no surprise that there is a "downtime" at the moment.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I don't think things have slowed down at all, it's more that there are far more projects to split peoples cash amongst,

and a lot of the early KS adopters are falling away as they run out of space for more stuff, or get burned by a failed project or two

and far more of the newer KSers are just interested in huge value which is a lot harder to get as companies realise what projects actually cost to deliver, postage costs keep going up and most companies now charge for it rather than making it free or heavily subsidised, and the cost of getting stuff made in china has jumped as inflation hits plus more clients means the factories can charge more

plus as has been mentioned big daddy GW is now on top of its game with loads of popular stuff coming all the time so less incentive for people to pledge on KS for stuff to arrive in a years time

Edit: the most recent full data is from 2017 http://icopartners.com/2018/01/kickstarter-2017-year-review/ which basically shows a slight increase from the previous year, but a decent increase in the games category

and http://icopartners.com/2018/07/kickstarter-and-tabletop-games-2018-mid-year-update/



so more money taken that last year,



but the increase is basically in the larger projects with funding basically static until you get to 100K+

Well worth reading the full articles (now games are a bit of a broad category so I wouldn't be surprised if more projects are going full boardgame as opposed to just offering minis since that does seem to have wider appeal so if you're not looking at both you may not be seeing the growth)






This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/01 13:00:23


 
   
Made in gb
Stitch Counter






Rowlands Gill

Kickstarter has matured as a marketplace. The graphs above indicate that financially things are still growing, but in all but the largest category, they have plateaued ... ish and perhaps the "rate of growth" has slowed as the marketplace has grown.

What has definitely cooled down a bit is the newsworthiness of Kickstarter releases. A few years ago you'd see loads of OMG!!LOOKATDEMBARGAINZ!!ZO000! posts and news items all over the place. That seems to be a lot less the case these days, as just because there is a Kickstarter release, doesn't make it news any more in and of itself. We have all got a bit savvier and understand that we may or may not be interested in a product, but whether it is on Kickstarter or not isn't that big of a thing, it is just one of a number of interesting (or boring) things to note about the release.

Which means we are all perhaps making more grown-up decisions about whether or not to back projects.

Personally, after having got a little burned with buyer's remorse on a couple of projects (mainly due to that 1 year+ wait for fulfilment, after which you find no one else is interested in playing and you aren't either any more), I swore off Kickstarter altogether. Since then I have come back a couple of times, but my purchases have been a lot more restrained, and even cautious these days. After all, my lead/plastic mountain is so huge that realistically I have absolutely no need to purchase anything new and still have stuff to assemble and paint up way past retirement! I haven't reached the point of selling off the gak I'm never going to get around to before I die, but that day will likely come. Probably once I retire, the kids have moved out and I get to shift my mancave down out of the loft and into one of their old bedrooms!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/02 11:22:44


Cheers
Paul 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





As someone hitting the "GO!" button on a Kickstarter soon this is not causing me any anxiety whatsoever. In fact, I should probably drink another fine cup of coffee and relax.
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Bristol, England

I'll also add to my previous comment re:GW getting good, that they are now giving us plenty of prerelease snippets which might be just enough to make us feel like we're part of the cool underground prerelease gang. It feels a bit more personable and gives us a reason to save up a few quid prior to the upcoming release rather than spending on stuff on a week to week basis or backing a KS.
It's way easier to control your hobby budget when you know what's on the horizon, so if there's cash money in the bank you can spend spend spend!

Oli: Can I be an orc?
Everyone: No.
Oli: But it fits through the doors, Look! 
   
Made in ca
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





I think most of the relevant companies and IPs already jumped on the KS bandwagon, so there isn't as much to cover in the miniatures world anymore.

It used to be cult-favorite IPs started getting kickstarters, then smallish miniature companies jumped on the bandwagon. Now about all I've seen in the world of miniatures lately is no-names with a copy of blender or maya trying to do their own kickstarter.

Hey everyone! Support my new amazing kickstarter "Scifi Guys with Guns!".
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

Thinking this over, there's also the fact that not only are we gamers privileged enough to have access to so many games of yesteryear, and what is available on store shelves now, but Kickstarter has also let us throw vast sums of money at the future too.

Add in the sobering realization that any given project who totally swears they'll delver in 1-1.5 years, and just about every jaded KS backer nods and mentally adds 1-2 years to that estimate, I know I'm definitely drawing back from such an easy eagerness to let enthusiasm or nostalgia allow me to have hundreds or thousands of dollars tied up in various projects that could take the better part of half a decade to actually arrive in full (Shadows of Brimstone, I'm loving and looking at you) or only arrive in part and then fail spectacularly (Robotech RPG Tactics, I'm looking and frowning at you).

Kickstarter Exclusives and 'Fear Of Missing Out' and whatnot are losing their appeal. At this point I pretty much just back the yearly Dwarven Forge campaign and then throw a buck or two at various projects I think are neat as a tip for commenting access. The Horizon Zero Dawn campaign overcame that reluctance, but aside from that and the occasional 20-50 or so on a medium sized thing like fun dice that generally shouldn't have many hiccups, I've definitely ramped down my participation, while avoiding some of the sheer cynicism that seems pervasive with many long time backers.
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

I'd say the proverbial "gold rush" for Kickstarter has passed: when 20+ years of good ideas all hit the emerging platform in the space of a few years. Now, we're simply seeing good ideas appear on Kickstarter at the normal rate at which good ideas are generated.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Personally, the increase in publishers selling exclusively on Kickstarter has helped to cool my enthusiasm. If I can't buy something when I want to, then you're getting nothing. Don't try and tart it up to look like you're doing me a favour by having to pledge for something now.
   
Made in ca
Dipping With Wood Stain






 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Personally, the increase in publishers selling exclusively on Kickstarter has helped to cool my enthusiasm. If I can't buy something when I want to, then you're getting nothing. Don't try and tart it up to look like you're doing me a favour by having to pledge for something now.


The reason this works so well is because it's a niche market for one. So, trying to capture an audience large enough for sustainability becomes a problem when only one distributor carries product and can get it to your audience.
Second, gamers are suckers for FOMO. Put 'LE' or 'Exclusive' on the box and it's a much easier sell and becomes much easier to part the money from their wallet.
Third, it's easier to have little overhead or inventory when you know exactly how many copies to make and know that each one is an actual sale.

Kickstarter has almost 14 million users. That significantly more than most metropolitan centers and is spread out worldwide. No LGS or city can bring that many eyes to a product that is as niche as games.

While KS would likely never work for your average retail fare, which is why it works so well for obscure and niche products.
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





It doesn't help that plenty of manufacturers that could go the traditional financing route use Kickstarter as a pre-order system. Although it has been interesting seeing how some of these products get sold after the Kickstarter has been delivered. One product I've seen, for example, was kickstarting for USD$65 and is retailing for USD$100, possibly related to all the tokens, chits, and sundry punchboard they squeezed into the box.
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





The vast majority of gaming projects on KS still appear to be the smaller guys - it is just that the bigger guys (more or less bigger) are somewhat dominating the scene and they're the ones with the higher project totals.

Big is relative, of course, with CMON and others being 'big' on KS but not so much in other terms.

Right now I'm backing Punkapocalype and The Lost Temple from Antimatter games - both decidedly small companies that would struggle getting new stuff out without a crowdfunded boost.




Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

The first KS were about 5 years ago, and since that time, and there have been plenty of 100 minis for $100 games - people are largely saturated. When the games themselves often aren't that great, it's hard to buy into what's become 150 minis for $150 when you already own 100s of minis that hardly ever see the tabletop.

OTOH, I have put GW levels of money into Kingdom Death: Monster, because the game is good and the models are fantastic. The second KS and PM have pulled something like $15M, so it basically sucked a lot of the air out of the room. I've also put small money into Ogre Miniatures splits, and am also happy with that.

Put the right game out there, at the right price, and people will still buy.

   
Made in gb
Imperial Agent Provocateur





Bridport

Not sure about slowing down, but there are becoming less projects i will/can back. As the product changes from hardware to files for 3D printing I have backed less and less. There have been several scenic items I wanted, but were not actual hardware. I have no wish to spend £1k+ for the printer to print them off.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Osbad wrote:
Kickstarter has matured as a marketplace. The graphs above indicate that financially things are still growing, but in all but the largest category, they have plateaued ... ish and perhaps the "rate of growth" has slowed as the marketplace has grown.

What has definitely cooled down a bit is the newsworthiness of Kickstarter releases. A few years ago you'd see loads of OMG!!LOOKATDEMBARGAINZ!!ZO000! posts and news items all over the place. That seems to be a lot less the case these days, as just because there is a Kickstarter release, doesn't make it news any more in and of itself.


This. I haven't noticed a lack of games, or even games getting backed. I've noticed the lack of buzz coming with each new Kickstarter.

It's no longer some novel way to launch a game. It's what you do if you are a small company wanting to try a new idea.

   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

As a KS backer with good disposable income - its not that I am less interested in KS offerings but I am simply running out of room - I have the money and many games look good but I know never going to play them, have them painted etc etc

Switching more to board game with minis more as likely to get games. But even then I have a finite amount of space.

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