Switch Theme:

The state of the Crisis Suit  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Focused Fire Warrior




Canada


I've been thinking about the Tau's most iconic unit, the crisis suit, and its current state. Its overcosted, sure, but would a reasonable price decrease even change that much?
Lets say a crisis suit was given a 27 point base which IMO is fair assuming a Necron destroyer is fairly costed as they have very similar stat line with the suit coming in a little worse (less movement, worse bs but that's usually costed in guns, more versatile and gun selection, worse special rules with manta strike vs move and shoot heavy and protocols).

Would I take this unit with a 27 base cost? No, I would not for the following reasons:
-Commanders are still a better choice and I get about 500ish points first, and I don't want to go to battle without tons of warriors, fireblades and a HBC riptide or two to dump cp into.
-They don't actually offer anything unique vs other codex as a generic deep strike special weapon type unit. Riptides offer me a flying 2+ /5+(3+) heavily armored 14 wound unit thas not a primarch which is very unique. Likewise, a commander can easily shoot 3x its point value in a game and can very easily be protected as its a character, again very unique as not many characters supply you with good guns. (exalted flamers, smite, maybe a few others?)
-Still have garbage ballistic skill
-starting on turn 2 isn't very cohesive with anything else Tau does, they don't really 'Alpha Strike" this edition or a least I personally haven't seen a good Tau list do so.

The suit used to have a bunch of cool special rules like JSJ which helped with their short range, could wield multiple weps when others couldn't, immune to night etc. The current suit is as bland as could be. These are some of the things Im going to suggest to fix it (alongside a price decrease), as I believe just a fair price decrease changes nothing; an overpowered price decrease (like 14 point base) will just lead to taking them only because they are cheap bodies.
-Give them multiple stratagems, like all the stratagems (+1 hit when arriving from manta, +1 wound from manta, JSJ stratagem etc), you can have our kroot stratagems back.
- This I doubt could ever happen but make them bs 3+
- Take them in units of 1+ again
- Have farsight enclaves (the crisis suit sept) not work only within 6" when manta strike is 9", like what? why 6"
-Rework support systems to be useful to them, the only one that does anything for them really is drone controller (which doesn't do anything *for* them anyway its for drones, which btw lemme have 1 suit with a drone controller unit back to earlier, I have to take three for that garbage?)
- Make me remember that missile pods are an actual gun again by having them not cost more then bs3+ lascannons for a much worse gun.
- Make it so I can deepstrike and use flamers (8") to give them an anti horde 3x flamer possibility
- Reduce their points by less then they should but then let them turn 1 manta strike (their not assaulting anyone anyway, and if they are thats like the least terryifying turn 1 charge unit ever)
- Make it somehow possible to have them be troop choices again, like Farsight enclaves maybe to even out the no ethereals; after fixing that septs ability naturally.

How would yall fix crisis suits/would you leave them in their current state and why? What would you like to see to see happen with them?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/05 07:36:52


 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Yea turn 1 deep striking with shooting units???

You do realise the deep strike nerf was because shooting alpha strike was wrecking the meta right? It wasn't assault that was destroying the meta, it was shooting.

Just no


On the others you have:

Markerlights (which is an intersting topic, TLDR; Markerlights need to be more tweaked so that the +1 BS isn't as hard, or bar that make pathfinders a really good value for their points)

+1 units was a huge mistake, it was why suits were spammed last edition, keep it to what it is.

Flamers are in the weird position in this edition. Some are saying their fine cause they fufill a niche thing (auto hitting something you cant hit)

Missile pods are one of those guns that need to be focused around the idea of a markerlight army, which most tau players aren't actually playing, or they go only for drones and then pull a winge when they realise they put their most important mechanic initializer on a BS5+ platform

Farsight enclave trait reflects farsight enclaves, the traits are a fluff additional trait, not a gaming trait.

Crisis suits could be nice as troops again, but then if it was 1 units suits then it would be the cheapest troops in the tau codex, which makes it a problem cause CP farming would be possible with a strongish tau unit.

BS3+........... yea don't know why they made this choice, should probably have stuck to 3... i guess they wanted them to be in line with the rest of the army?
   
Made in au
Stalwart Tribune





mchammadad wrote:

BS3+........... yea don't know why they made this choice, should probably have stuck to 3... i guess they wanted them to be in line with the rest of the army?

Because easy access to BS 2+ would be too strong is why they're BS4+ along with the rest of tau imo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/05 10:35:49


 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

Ozomoto wrote:

I've been thinking about the Tau's most iconic unit, the crisis suit, and its current state. Its overcosted, sure, but would a reasonable price decrease even change that much?
Lets say a crisis suit was given a 27 point base which IMO is fair assuming a Necron destroyer is fairly costed as they have very similar stat line with the suit coming in a little worse (less movement, worse bs but that's usually costed in guns, more versatile and gun selection, worse special rules with manta strike vs move and shoot heavy and protocols).

Would I take this unit with a 27 base cost? No, I would not for the following reasons:
-Commanders are still a better choice and I get about 500ish points first, and I don't want to go to battle without tons of warriors, fireblades and a HBC riptide or two to dump cp into.
-They don't actually offer anything unique vs other codex as a generic deep strike special weapon type unit. Riptides offer me a flying 2+ /5+(3+) heavily armored 14 wound unit thas not a primarch which is very unique. Likewise, a commander can easily shoot 3x its point value in a game and can very easily be protected as its a character, again very unique as not many characters supply you with good guns. (exalted flamers, smite, maybe a few others?)
-Still have garbage ballistic skill
-starting on turn 2 isn't very cohesive with anything else Tau does, they don't really 'Alpha Strike" this edition or a least I personally haven't seen a good Tau list do so.
That's something that really affects all armies, some more than others. Crisis Suits aren't really hurt the most by this.

The suit used to have a bunch of cool special rules like JSJ which helped with their short range, could wield multiple weps when others couldn't, immune to night etc. The current suit is as bland as could be. These are some of the things Im going to suggest to fix it (alongside a price decrease), as I believe just a fair price decrease changes nothing; an overpowered price decrease (like 14 point base) will just lead to taking them only because they are cheap bodies.
-Give them multiple stratagems, like all the stratagems (+1 hit when arriving from manta, +1 wound from manta, JSJ stratagem etc), you can have our kroot stratagems back.
Tau already have a good number of strategems.

- This I doubt could ever happen but make them bs 3+
Would be too easy to make them BS2+ this way.

- Take them in units of 1+ again
Good idea.

- Have farsight enclaves (the crisis suit sept) not work only within 6" when manta strike is 9", like what? why 6"
-Rework support systems to be useful to them, the only one that does anything for them really is drone controller (which doesn't do anything *for* them anyway its for drones, which btw lemme have 1 suit with a drone controller unit back to earlier, I have to take three for that garbage?)
You're forgetting how useful the Drones can be. Can tank wounds for them, and put out a surprising amount of firepower or Markerlight support.

- Make me remember that missile pods are an actual gun again by having them not cost more then bs3+ lascannons for a much worse gun.
Combined with ATS, Missile Pods can be pretty terrifying.

- Make it so I can deepstrike and use flamers (8") to give them an anti horde 3x flamer possibility
Why should Crisis Suits get an exception to the rule which every other DS-ing unit is stuck with?

- Reduce their points by less then they should but then let them turn 1 manta strike (their not assaulting anyone anyway, and if they are thats like the least terryifying turn 1 charge unit ever)
Again, why should they be an exception?

- Make it somehow possible to have them be troop choices again, like Farsight enclaves maybe to even out the no ethereals; after fixing that septs ability naturally.
This is a good idea.

How would yall fix crisis suits/would you leave them in their current state and why? What would you like to see to see happen with them?


I would simply drop them down to 22pts each barebones, let them be taken in 1+ groups, and give them a rule to let them move D6" in the Fight Phase if they're not already in combat.
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Honestly now with rule of 3, there is no longer a reason not to let them be solo.

So solo suits, and a decent price drop is going to be enough to make them viable, but it won't solve the issue that commanders basically serve the same rule...

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






At least the most iconic unit for tau sees the light of day in forms of commanders.

SM marines? terminators? what?
   
Made in ca
Focused Fire Warrior




Canada

mchammadad wrote:


Farsight enclave trait reflects farsight enclaves, the traits are a fluff additional trait, not a gaming trait.



I actually disagree that the farsight enclaves trait reflects enclaves from a fluff perspective. Their stratagem and warlord trait are awesome but Manta Strike goes hand in hand with Mont'ka at this point. A trait which takes place after a Mont'ka strike has happened, but before a Kauyon ambush is in a very weird place. That kind of thing should be reflected in Kauyon but its short range prohibits it from being so. It's like a grinding meat shield suicide trait; I don't get it. Anything cc oriented, hit and run(focusing on the run), bonus on manta strike make sense to me as a solid trait that reflects them. Montka strike-->feint retreat---> set up Kauyon. This trait helps with any of this how? Its just badly designed for fluff and to reflect the enclaves in the game from the fluff. If it was just +1 wound rolls within 6" I would buy it more, but it's not. The enclave stratagem reflects an increased affinity of a well placed hard-hitting Montka strike; and its warlord trait reflects the enclaves commander affinity for getting his hand dirty and having increased heroism compared to the rest of the tau commanders.

I would simply drop them down to 22pts each barebones, let them be taken in 1+ groups, and give them a rule to let them move D6" in the Fight Phase if they're not already in combat.


If it were up to me I would actually like to see them move d6 at the end of the fight phase (own turn) even if they are already in combat as they are allegedly masters of hit and run.

You're forgetting how useful the Drones can be. Can tank wounds for them, and put out a surprising amount of firepower or Markerlight support.


Oh don't worry I respect drones highly, especially the beautiful bastards that hang around in the pathfinder units that exhaust my breath trying to explain what my 28 point unit does. I was calling the fact I needed 3 garbage, not the controller.

Crisis suits could be nice as troops again, but then if it was 1 units suits then it would be the cheapest troops in the tau codex, which makes it a problem cause CP farming would be possible with a strongish tau unit.


Considering crisis suits have to take a gun now at a 27 base a crisis with one burst cannon is the same cost as 5man strike team unit that holds less fire power and survivability. Edit: oh it can be a support system also. Still roughly the same points as a 5 man fw squad.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/10/05 16:45:39


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




BS3+
Done. Makes them need less support from Markerlights which is actually a good thing. If they need a price cut after that, so be it.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Missle pod is basically an autocannon - it should be 10-12 points.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Add the following to all Suit variants:
Aim Assist--
Models with this rule reroll failed hit rolls of 1 and are always treated as being at half range for the purposes of Rapid Fire weapons. Additionally when firing at a unit that has at least 1 Markerlight Counter the unit gains +1 to their Hit Rolls, rerolls all failed hit rolls while also doubling the number of Markerlight Counters on the target unit.

This means when firing at a unit with 2 Markerlight Counters, a Crisis Suit gains +2 to their Hit Rolls rather than +1.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




I don’t really feel like the suits need BS3+ to function.

I think the Tau codex is held back by a lot of design decisions that prevent other improvements from taking place. Markerlights, redundant mechanics, etc.

One of these things, I think, is the number of weapons Crisis suits can bring to the table. We always compare the Commanders to the basic suits, their 4 to the suits’ 3 weapons and the BS2 vs BS4 debate. If both Commanders and Crisis Suits were limited to two weapons apiece plus support systems, coupled with appropriate cost reductions, I think it would leave both in a better place.

I like the idea of going with 2/3s of the base suit cost, at 28pts. This gives you the same firepower point for point, but more bodies in the fight and less firepower lost per model. It also puts support systems in a better place, which follows the practice of every other suit that mounts them. Particularly with Stealth suits, I’ve noticed that it is viable to run them with or without support systems as needed. (I also believe support systems needs to be overhauled in general, but don’t have anything solid to say at the moment).

Which brings us to Commanders. By being forced to run only two weapons, they don’t double dip on the added firepower of having a full two BS higher than the suits on top of having more weapons. This shortens the gap between the two by a fair margin.

It might look like a nerf by limiting the number of weapons on a suit, but I think that the cost reductions will put it in a better place by being able to run more of them. Reduces the barrier of entry for fielding them in lower point games to boot.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Crisis are largely playable if not for the minimum 3 requirement.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 skchsan wrote:
Crisis are largely playable if not for the minimum 3 requirement.

Realy a unit that costs more per model than unarmed custodes with worse stats and no invlunerable is playable?

I'm not suggesting that crisis suits should have custodes stats but
With M+2 ws-3 BS-2 A-1 Ld -1 Sv -1 same invlunerable and no mortal wound defence being 10 points more is indefensible.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/05 22:51:03


 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Ice_can wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Crisis are largely playable if not for the minimum 3 requirement.

Realy a unit that costs more per model than unarmed custodes with worse stats and no invlunerable is playable?

I'm not suggesting that crisis suits should have custodes stats but
With M+2 ws-3 BS-2 A-1 Ld -1 Sv -1 same invlunerable and no mortal wound defence being 10 points more is indefensible.
Custodes is largely undercosted for what they bring to the table. I don't think it's a fair point of comparison.

Barebone captains have -1S, -1T, +2W, +1A, +1 Ld, -1 Sv +1++, and costs 34 points more.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/05 23:03:30


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 skchsan wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Crisis are largely playable if not for the minimum 3 requirement.

Realy a unit that costs more per model than unarmed custodes with worse stats and no invlunerable is playable?

I'm not suggesting that crisis suits should have custodes stats but
With M+2 ws-3 BS-2 A-1 Ld -1 Sv -1 same invlunerable and no mortal wound defence being 10 points more is indefensible.
Custodes is largely undercosted for what they bring to the table. I don't think it's a fair point of comparison.

Ok how about an entire IG infantry squad per Crisis Suit.

Thats 3 T5 3+ saves with no guns for the price of 10 T3 5+Sv's with lasguns. My moneys still not on a crisis suit, as playable.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Ice_can wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Crisis are largely playable if not for the minimum 3 requirement.

Realy a unit that costs more per model than unarmed custodes with worse stats and no invlunerable is playable?

I'm not suggesting that crisis suits should have custodes stats but
With M+2 ws-3 BS-2 A-1 Ld -1 Sv -1 same invlunerable and no mortal wound defence being 10 points more is indefensible.
Custodes is largely undercosted for what they bring to the table. I don't think it's a fair point of comparison.

Ok how about an entire IG infantry squad per Crisis Suit.

Thats 3 T5 3+ saves with no guns for the price of 10 T3 5+Sv's with lasguns. My moneys still not on a crisis suit, as playable.
AM too, are largely undercosted for what they bring to the table.

Perhaps my statement was misleading - if crisis were able to be fielded in 1+ model per unit, it would come down from "auto-shelf" status to "maybe it can do something" status.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/05 23:32:43


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 skchsan wrote:
Spoiler:
Ice_can wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Crisis are largely playable if not for the minimum 3 requirement.

Realy a unit that costs more per model than unarmed custodes with worse stats and no invlunerable is playable?

I'm not suggesting that crisis suits should have custodes stats but
With M+2 ws-3 BS-2 A-1 Ld -1 Sv -1 same invlunerable and no mortal wound defence being 10 points more is indefensible.
Custodes is largely undercosted for what they bring to the table. I don't think it's a fair point of comparison.

Ok how about an entire IG infantry squad per Crisis Suit.

Thats 3 T5 3+ saves with no guns for the price of 10 T3 5+Sv's with lasguns. My moneys still not on a crisis suit, as playable.
AM too, are largely undercosted for what they bring to the table.
Good luck convincing Guard players of that
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Ice_can wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Spoiler:
Ice_can wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Crisis are largely playable if not for the minimum 3 requirement.

Realy a unit that costs more per model than unarmed custodes with worse stats and no invlunerable is playable?

I'm not suggesting that crisis suits should have custodes stats but
With M+2 ws-3 BS-2 A-1 Ld -1 Sv -1 same invlunerable and no mortal wound defence being 10 points more is indefensible.
Custodes is largely undercosted for what they bring to the table. I don't think it's a fair point of comparison.

Ok how about an entire IG infantry squad per Crisis Suit.

Thats 3 T5 3+ saves with no guns for the price of 10 T3 5+Sv's with lasguns. My moneys still not on a crisis suit, as playable.
AM too, are largely undercosted for what they bring to the table.
Good luck convincing Guard players of that
Then I would not bring it up as a point of comparison.
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




NY

I'm in favor of 2 weapons 1 system for xv8, 2 and 2 for xv85. Also reduce prices of the guns to be in line for bs4, each of our weapons are expensive compared to the imperial standard.
It would also be nice if ats were appropriately priced. Fewer weapons that are less expensive, and a few points off base is good imo.

I also think it would be cool if commanders had an ability to share systems.
   
Made in us
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





I was hoping to see some price changes for the bad units in the BigFAQ, but it seems GW's policy with FAQs is to smack down the overpowered units and rules exploits and just let the crappy units be crappy forever.

We got some price changes in Chapter Approved, but they really were more focused on increasing prices for undercosted units. Seems the policy is "if it isn't too powerful, don't fix it".
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




Columbus

How about just giving back our vehicle Battle Systems... why were tau the only ones to loose all of them??

Never argue with an idiot you just lower yourself to their level.  
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





I think the main issue I see (casually glancing) at suits is that they're lower-end multiwound models made extremely expensive by the weapon options. A suit's stat line definitely shouldn't be free, but even a drop of 10-15 points on the base model will still be hindered by the cost of the weapons (which, also, should not be free).

I don't know how you get around this issue without revamping their statline (at least bumping wounds, or something). Would a 15-20 point decrease make people take them, when they're still tossing on quite a few guns and jacking up the price?
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
How about just giving back our vehicle Battle Systems... why were tau the only ones to loose all of them??

Most people lost stuff like that or it was swapped over to Stratagems.

SirWeeble wrote:I was hoping to see some price changes for the bad units in the BigFAQ, but it seems GW's policy with FAQs is to smack down the overpowered units and rules exploits and just let the crappy units be crappy forever.

We got some price changes in Chapter Approved, but they really were more focused on increasing prices for undercosted units. Seems the policy is "if it isn't too powerful, don't fix it".

We haven't gotten the new version of Chapter Approved. When the current iteration was published, Tau were still an Index army. They've said that points changes are for CA not for FAQs.

skchsan wrote:
Perhaps my statement was misleading - if crisis were able to be fielded in 1+ model per unit, it would come down from "auto-shelf" status to "maybe it can do something" status.

I'm in favor of this...in a way.

I'd make it so that the unit is purchased as one but is able to act independently ala vehicle squadrons, but with some benefits for working in concert.
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




NY

 Kanluwen wrote:


I'd make it so that the unit is purchased as one but is able to act independently ala vehicle squadrons, but with some benefits for working in concert.


I don't love that as it makes more units to manage that are easier to get kill points out of. Squads of 1-9 is fine so that suits can fit in easier or use stratagems well, but 9+ individual suits is more time consuming.
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






The price of the weapons needs to be adjusted for the BS of the user. Crisis Suits shouldn't be paying the same points as a BS2+ Commander.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 John Prins wrote:
The price of the weapons needs to be adjusted for the BS of the user. Crisis Suits shouldn't be paying the same points as a BS2+ Commander.

Once again, this only matters when the two platforms cost the same.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

 John Prins wrote:
The price of the weapons needs to be adjusted for the BS of the user. Crisis Suits shouldn't be paying the same points as a BS2+ Commander.

Eh, not if the Commander has the cost built in.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut






UK

Shas'O'Ceris wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:


I'd make it so that the unit is purchased as one but is able to act independently ala vehicle squadrons, but with some benefits for working in concert.


I don't love that as it makes more units to manage that are easier to get kill points out of. Squads of 1-9 is fine so that suits can fit in easier or use stratagems well, but 9+ individual suits is more time consuming.


He's free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression was Kan meant that you'd have the option to split them off in the same way as vehicles, but you would gain benefits for keeping them as a unit of multiple models, not that splitting them off would be mandatory.

I'd be fine with that idea, perhaps riffing off an earlier suggestion of shared support systems allowing a unit kept together to share each other's systems, whereas independent units would lose that in exchange for more freedom. Limit the shared systems to one per unit per turn or something to stop 3 suits taking 3 different support systems and sharing them between everyone effectively giving them 2 weapons and 3 support systems each, and give it an effective range perhaps less than max coherency distance to force them to stay close to the suit sharing the system, and I wouldn't say that's overdoing it. A unit of 3 might have 2 suits with 2 weapons and the same 1 support system, and 1 suit with 1 weapon, the same support system, and a different support system it leases out to the other two. It sacrifices a weapon to do so, but enhances the weapons of its squadmates as well as its own--if you even allow a suit sharing a system to shoot in the first place

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/07 02:40:55


Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






The problem with Crisis suits is there is no middle ground between BS3+ and BS4+. If the game were D12 based there could be a nice middle ground for them.
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






 Charistoph wrote:
 John Prins wrote:
The price of the weapons needs to be adjusted for the BS of the user. Crisis Suits shouldn't be paying the same points as a BS2+ Commander.

Eh, not if the Commander has the cost built in.


I'm not convinced it does.

   
 
Forum Index » 40K Proposed Rules
Go to: