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Was there ever doubt that the Emperor is still alive before Guy Haley's Dark Imperium book? Books before Dark Imperium confirmed that.



Guy Haley's Throneworld book from the Beast Arises confirmed that.



Such power made Lhaerial’s mind reel, and for a moment her contempt for the creatures of Terra wavered. The mind of the Emperor was a mountain in the surging madness of the Othersea, blinding in its brilliance. The Great Powers circled this place like razorshark waiting out the death throes of a void-whale. That terrible presence held them back, and all His little servants were ignorant of it! Unease gripped her, that she would be noticed by the Dark Gods or their defier, and the fragile flame of her being snuffed out.

The feeling passed. The regard of the things of the Other­sea was ossified, so long had they fixed their gaze on the Earth. The Emperor did not shift His regard. His attention was elsewhere, upon the blinding pyre of souls, navigation beacon of the mon-keigh. She had no indication she was seen. There was little relief in that. She had laughed in the face of She Who Thirsts, but the Corpse Emperor filled her with a sense of dread.











And this from Aaron Dembski's Bowden's Talon of Horus.



We can see that light. Those of us within the Empire of the Eye can actually see it. The Astronomican reaches even to our purgatorial exile, and to us it is no mere mystical radiance illuminating the warp. It is pain, it is fire, and it plunges entire Neverborn worlds into war.

It would be a mistake to believe the Emperor’s power battles the Four Gods’ forces, here. It is not order against chaos, nor anything as crude as ‘good’ against ‘evil’. It is all psychic energy, crashing together in volatile torment.

Most of the Radiant Worlds are uninhabitable, lost in the lethal crash of conflicting psychic energies. Armies of fire angels and flame-wrought projections wage war against everything in their path. We call this region the Firetide. What made the Avernus Breach so valuable was its path, not its destination. It cut through the systems forever bleached bare of life by the Firetide, and into the calmer Radiant Worlds beyond. These are the star systems bathed in psychic light without burning in it.

Entire centuries will pass without a single vessel sailing the region, for it offers little to us beyond yet another example of soul energies manifesting in ways mortals can barely control. On more than one occasion the Mechanicum has sought to use Neverborn spirits bound within arcane flesh-machinery to record the Radiant Worlds in an ever-shifting, evolving map. Such attempts have fared as poorly as you might imagine.




And the Inquisition War shows him talking to Draco.

Wrong forum again. All of these threads of yours should be in background.

 ingtaer wrote:
Wrong forum again. All of these threads of yours should be in background.

Its a question of a sort. So its technically a discussion.

"40K Background
Debate and discuss the rich background of the Warhammer 40,000 universe."

The 40K Background section is for questions, debate and discussion of the background of the game. Threads like this are exactly what that section is made for

I'm getting used to this forum. Can someone move my thread to the right place?

From Guy Haley's God of Slaughter book.

The Emperor was dead. 100% completely dead, never coming back. Marbo gazed upon His work with satisfaction. Killing the Emperor had been almost as much of a challenge as that time He had killed a traitor militia squad with a well-placed demolition charge. That is, not a challenge at all. The Emperor's psychic talents had been no match for His stealth and skill at infiltration and once the Emperor was in knife range, well, that was that. And the Chaos gods had thought that He might hesitate like most guardsmen, accepting that there was a target that He could not kill rather than defy His ruler. But no, He had taken their foolish dare and brought slaughter to the very heart of the Imperium. But the joke was on the gods, Marbo thought with a laugh, contemplating the Emperor's dying words.

"Bet you can't kill those Chaos s".

The emperor is dead. Long live the star child!

Andykp wrote:
The emperor is dead. Long live the star child!

Yes! The Star Child from the lore of 1st Edition Rogue Trader is cooler than the Emperor.

There was never any real doubt about the Emperor still being alive. Dude's on life support, still has a hand in a bunch of things happening in the physical world and has spoken to a bunch of people relatively recently.

So, question answered. Yet another fun discussion stemming from a Onething thread. Dude, you really need to understand how discussions about background work. They require a question without a simple, unequivocal answer. There are ways of framing a potentially simple, straight-forward question that could instigate more interesting debate. For example, putting forward the notion the Emperor is actually dead, and the psychic essence that powers the Astronomicon is purely a result of the sacrificed psykers and nothing to do with the corpse sitting on the Golden Throne would actually stimulate debate. Posting a pair of quotes and a banal question is not how you start a discussion.

Slipspace wrote:
There was never any real doubt about the Emperor still being alive. Dude's on life support, still has a hand in a bunch of things happening in the physical world and has spoken to a bunch of people relatively recently.

So, question answered. Yet another fun discussion stemming from a Onething thread. Dude, you really need to understand how discussions about background work. They require a question without a simple, unequivocal answer. There are ways of framing a potentially simple, straight-forward question that could instigate more interesting debate. For example, putting forward the notion the Emperor is actually dead, and the psychic essence that powers the Astronomicon is purely a result of the sacrificed psykers and nothing to do with the corpse sitting on the Golden Throne would actually stimulate debate. Posting a pair of quotes and a banal question is not how you start a discussion.

Alas, I fear your constructive criticism will go unheeded, he'll probably promptly abandon this thread and start another one about Perpetuals being unquestionably well written because some guy from Reddit said so, or that the Emperor is a psyker.

He really should just start his own blog at this point if these are the types of things he wants to "discuss".

 Grimskul wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
There was never any real doubt about the Emperor still being alive. Dude's on life support, still has a hand in a bunch of things happening in the physical world and has spoken to a bunch of people relatively recently.

So, question answered. Yet another fun discussion stemming from a Onething thread. Dude, you really need to understand how discussions about background work. They require a question without a simple, unequivocal answer. There are ways of framing a potentially simple, straight-forward question that could instigate more interesting debate. For example, putting forward the notion the Emperor is actually dead, and the psychic essence that powers the Astronomicon is purely a result of the sacrificed psykers and nothing to do with the corpse sitting on the Golden Throne would actually stimulate debate. Posting a pair of quotes and a banal question is not how you start a discussion.

Alas, I fear your constructive criticism will go unheeded, he'll probably promptly abandon this thread and start another one about Perpetuals being unquestionably well written because some guy from Reddit said so, or that the Emperor is a psyker.

He really should just start his own blog at this point if these are the types of things he wants to "discuss".

I think I should clarify. I said the Perpetuals are well-written. I did not say that they are indisputably good lore. And most of the time I was not saying they are well-written, I was just having quote Voltstagge show the Perpetuals are not necessarily bad parts of the lore.



I hope I haven't done anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Peregine's quote had me laughing.

There was a ton more doubt until recently. Only in the last few years have we gotten a hard yes or no the Emperor being alive. Additionally there is the more interesting question of what kind of state he is in mentally. More recent sources tend to show either not great or at least no longer pretending he cares.

Why was there ever a doubt ?All you need to do is read the books I quoted. And that's wrong, since Inquisition War and 1st Edition Rogue Trader showed he is alive.

Onething123456 wrote:
Why was there ever a doubt ?All you need to do is read the books I quoted. And that's wrong, since Inquisition War and 1st Edition Rogue Trader showed he is alive.

Alive is a relative term and one that having mystery around made the setting more interesting. Is the Imperium still guided by it's God Emperor who is still active in subtle ways. Or are they ignorantly worshiping a corpse plugged into a machine that is essentially on auto pilot as long as you feed it fresh psykers. Either interpretation is valid and fits the setting. GW has pulled back a little to much mystery recently.

Don't Inquisition War with Jaq Draco and Rick Priestley's Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader from 1987 show otherwise?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I know there is no canon in 40k. That is the best thing about 40k.

Inquisition War had the Emperor 'speaking' - so yes, confirmed he was still alive (as in 'conciously so') way back when in 1990 - albeit totally schizoid.

The difference with Gulliman's experience is essentially that a 'credible witness' has experienced it, rather than (a) an untrustworthy heretic (Draco) or (b) an untrustworthy Xenos (Lhariel).

That only matters for in-universe knowledge, though. Us readers are 3rd party omniscient, so it's all good.

It was from the Harlequin's perspective when she sensed the Emperor's power. And the Eldar hate the Emperor. And we see Draco in the quote talking to the Emperor. Its proof.

While there is something conscious in the Golden Throne most of those sources paint a fairly clear picture that what ever the emperor was before, he is something entirely different now.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
While there is something conscious in the Golden Throne most of those sources paint a fairly clear picture that what ever the emperor was before, he is something entirely different now.

Yes. What do you think of the lore from 1st Edition Rogue Trader. Can you show me that quote you talked about in my other thread by putting it in a PM? I made a new reply to my thread about the Imperium's knowledge of Old Earth.

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
While there is something conscious in the Golden Throne most of those sources paint a fairly clear picture that what ever the emperor was before, he is something entirely different now.

Yes. What do you think of the lore from 1st Edition Rogue Trader. Can you show me that quote you talked about in my other thread by putting it in a PM? I made a new reply to my thread about the Imperium's knowledge of Old Earth.

It's page 72 of Prospero burns and the conversation goes on for several pages. Again, I'm not retyping pages of a novel. If you want to read it, give the book a read. It's one of the better heresy novels.

As for any Fluff from 1st Edition, I take it with a massive grain of salt unless it has been repeated in a more current edition or source. The setting and game were very different back then and a lot of concepts and information from 1st is not current.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
While there is something conscious in the Golden Throne most of those sources paint a fairly clear picture that what ever the emperor was before, he is something entirely different now.

Yes. What do you think of the lore from 1st Edition Rogue Trader. Can you show me that quote you talked about in my other thread by putting it in a PM? I made a new reply to my thread about the Imperium's knowledge of Old Earth.

It's page 72 of Prospero burns and the conversation goes on for several pages. Again, I'm not retyping pages of a novel. If you want to read it, give the book a read. It's one of the better heresy novels.

As for any Fluff from 1st Edition, I take it with a massive grain of salt unless it has been repeated in a more current edition or source. The setting and game were very different back then and a lot of concepts and information from 1st is not current.

Thank you for the page number. 1st Edition Rogue Trader was better than most things in the Horus Heresy books.

In first edition he was described in some texts as being barely alive or functionally dead. A few cells alive and the soul departed into the warp, hence star child. But he was also described as being able to talk and make decisions, only he could order the creation of new chapters and the like. Since then he was kept “alive” by the throne which was failing.

I’m still not convinced he did talk to roboute. I think old big blue went in, saw what is basically a corpse and heard nothing. So he sat there all day then came out and said “he told me to be in charge! It’s all ok........he’s fine by the way.”

And somewhere in the distant warp a little star child sparkled.

Andykp wrote:

I’m still not convinced he did talk to roboute. I think old big blue went in, saw what is basically a corpse and heard nothing. So he sat there all day then came out and said “he told me to be in charge! It’s all ok........he’s fine by the way.”

And somewhere in the distant warp a little star child sparkled.

Ha! I like that.

 Crimson wrote:

Andykp wrote:

I’m still not convinced he did talk to roboute. I think old big blue went in, saw what is basically a corpse and heard nothing. So he sat there all day then came out and said “he told me to be in charge! It’s all ok........he’s fine by the way.”

And somewhere in the distant warp a little star child sparkled.

Ha! I like that.

Cheers.

Andykp wrote:
In first edition he was described in some texts as being barely alive or functionally dead. A few cells alive and the soul departed into the warp, hence star child. But he was also described as being able to talk and make decisions, only he could order the creation of new chapters and the like. Since then he was kept “alive” by the throne which was failing.

I’m still not convinced he did talk to roboute. I think old big blue went in, saw what is basically a corpse and heard nothing. So he sat there all day then came out and said “he told me to be in charge! It’s all ok........he’s fine by the way.”

And somewhere in the distant warp a little star child sparkled.

Its confirmed fro his own thoughts that he did. Why the hell would he lie to himself? He was hurt learning that the Emperor never loved him and his brothers (or at least he thought he does not love them). What he did lie about was telling one Marine that the Emperor loved them all.


With words of light and fire, the Emperor had conferred with His returned primarch, the last of His finest creations. A creation. Not a son. The living Emperor had been an artful being, as skilled at hiding His thoughts as He was at reading those of others. What remained of Him was powerful beyond comprehension, but it lacked the subtlety He had had whilst He walked among men. Speaking with the Emperor had been like conversing with a star. The Emperor’s words burned him. What hurt most deeply was what went unsaid. The Emperor greeted Guilliman not as a father receives a son, but as a craftsmen who rediscovers a favourite tool that he thought lost. He behaved like a prisoner locked in an iron cage who is passed a rasp. Guilliman had no illusions. He was not the man who brought the rasp; he was the rasp.While the Emperor had walked abroad, He had cloaked His manipulations in love. He had let His primarchs call Him father; He had let them call themselves His sons. He had rarely spoken those words Himself, Guilliman now realised, and when He had He had done so without sincerity. Buffeted by the full might of the Emperor’s will unclothed in flesh, a cloak had been ripped from Guilliman’s eyes. The Emperor had allowed them to love Him, and to believe He loved them in return. He had not. His primarchs were weapons, that was all. Though His power was immense, perhaps greater than it had been before He ascended, the Emperor’s humanity was all but gone. He could no longer mask His thoughts with a human face. The Emperor’s light was blinding, all encompassing, but finally – finally – Guilliman had seen it as a whole. The being he had thought of as a father could hide nothing from him. The Emperor did not love His sons. They were things. Guilliman, all his brothers, were nothing but a means to an end.






And I see that is probably a joke.

Can we get Andykp to write the fluff for GW? His take is way better than the official one.

 Crimson wrote:
Can we get Andykp to write the fluff for GW? His take is way better than the official one.

The lore from 1st Edition Rogue Trader craps on just about everything in the Horus Heresy books. I say it craps on in my opinion even the Perpetuals or whatever was the best in the Horus Heresy books.

 Crimson wrote:
Can we get Andykp to write the fluff for GW? His take is way better than the official one.

If only I could spell! I like the question marks in 40k. Less we actually know the better.

Andykp wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Can we get Andykp to write the fluff for GW? His take is way better than the official one.

If only I could spell! I like the question marks in 40k. Less we actually know the better.

Yes, absolutely! I hate how the HH series has revealed that what once seemed mythic and mysterious to be banal an juvenile.

 Crimson wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Can we get Andykp to write the fluff for GW? His take is way better than the official one.

If only I could spell! I like the question marks in 40k. Less we actually know the better.

Yes, absolutely! I hate how the HH series has revealed that what once seemed mythic and mysterious to be banal an juvenile.

FINALLY. I thought I was alone in that. The great time of myth and intrigue is just a load of emo kids with daddy issues! GW sold out on that one, the books made too much money not to be milked dry. Alan blighs forgeworld books were better because it was just historical style accounts of the military actions. Shame about him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Onething123456 wrote:

Andykp wrote:
In first edition he was described in some texts as being barely alive or functionally dead. A few cells alive and the soul departed into the warp, hence star child. But he was also described as being able to talk and make decisions, only he could order the creation of new chapters and the like. Since then he was kept “alive” by the throne which was failing.

I’m still not convinced he did talk to roboute. I think old big blue went in, saw what is basically a corpse and heard nothing. So he sat there all day then came out and said “he told me to be in charge! It’s all ok........he’s fine by the way.”

And somewhere in the distant warp a little star child sparkled.

Its confirmed fro his own thoughts that he did. Why the hell would he lie to himself? He was hurt learning that the Emperor never loved him and his brothers (or at least he thought he does not love them). What he did lie about was telling one Marine that the Emperor loved them all.


With words of light and fire, the Emperor had conferred with His returned primarch, the last of His finest creations. A creation. Not a son. The living Emperor had been an artful being, as skilled at hiding His thoughts as He was at reading those of others. What remained of Him was powerful beyond comprehension, but it lacked the subtlety He had had whilst He walked among men. Speaking with the Emperor had been like conversing with a star. The Emperor’s words burned him. What hurt most deeply was what went unsaid. The Emperor greeted Guilliman not as a father receives a son, but as a craftsmen who rediscovers a favourite tool that he thought lost. He behaved like a prisoner locked in an iron cage who is passed a rasp. Guilliman had no illusions. He was not the man who brought the rasp; he was the rasp.While the Emperor had walked abroad, He had cloaked His manipulations in love. He had let His primarchs call Him father; He had let them call themselves His sons. He had rarely spoken those words Himself, Guilliman now realised, and when He had He had done so without sincerity. Buffeted by the full might of the Emperor’s will unclothed in flesh, a cloak had been ripped from Guilliman’s eyes. The Emperor had allowed them to love Him, and to believe He loved them in return. He had not. His primarchs were weapons, that was all. Though His power was immense, perhaps greater than it had been before He ascended, the Emperor’s humanity was all but gone. He could no longer mask His thoughts with a human face. The Emperor’s light was blinding, all encompassing, but finally – finally – Guilliman had seen it as a whole. The being he had thought of as a father could hide nothing from him. The Emperor did not love His sons. They were things. Guilliman, all his brothers, were nothing but a means to an end.






And I see that is probably a joke.

Not really a joke. I like to think that’s what happened. Maybe not in those words. All that above could have hallucinations or dreams. He had been through a lot by then and was in stasis for millennia. The mind plays tricks on you when your tired and emotional.