Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all

Starting to loose track of the rules a little with CA and the new FAQ etc. Would this scenario work. Always consider that the unit sizes are correct for Mob Up.

Turn 1 - A unit of boys has Da Jump cast on them and they successfully make a charge. The turn ends with some but not all dead and they remain engaged in combat.
Turn 2 - Another unit is moved within 2" of the first using Da Jump.

Can I use Mob Up to combine them even if the first unit is engaged? I see nothing in the Mob Up strat that says no.

The idea with this would be to keep pouring boyz up the field and if desired, use Mob Up to prevent total wipes.

Cheers

MOB UP
Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase.
Select two ORK INFANTRY units from your army that
are within 2" of each other that have the same datasheet
(e.g. choose two Boyz units, or two Stormboyz units). If
one of the units has 10 or more models, and the other
has 10 or fewer, the two units merge and, for the rest
of the battle, they are counted as a single unit for all
rules purposes.

I don't see any restrictions in the stratagem itself. I didn't see any FAQ or errata in Index: Xenos 2, Chapter approved, Big FAQ 1, or Big FAQ 2. You've got my vote.

Of course this could all change in a few weeks when the new codex drops...

 deviantduck wrote:
MOB UP
Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase.
Select two ORK INFANTRY units from your army that
are within 2" of each other that have the same datasheet
(e.g. choose two Boyz units, or two Stormboyz units). If
one of the units has 10 or more models, and the other
has 10 or fewer, the two units merge and, for the rest
of the battle, they are counted as a single unit for all
rules purposes.

I don't see any restrictions in the stratagem itself. I didn't see any FAQ or errata in Index: Xenos 2, Chapter approved, Big FAQ 1, or Big FAQ 2. You've got my vote.

This is true.

You can use it, and this leads us to some quirky rules scenarios we don't know how to deal with.

For instance, if one unit had advanced and the other hadn't, then you combine them, has the combined unit advanced for purposes of shooting and charging?

We simply don't know for sure.

In the OP’s example that’s a moot point, as the resulting uberunit would be within 1” of the enemy, so shooting and charging wouldn’t come into play.

 vim_the_good wrote:
Hi all

Starting to loose track of the rules a little with CA and the new FAQ etc. Would this scenario work. Always consider that the unit sizes are correct for Mob Up.

Turn 1 - A unit of boys has Da Jump cast on them and they successfully make a charge. The turn ends with some but not all dead and they remain engaged in combat.
Turn 2 - Another unit is moved within 2" of the first using Da Jump.

Can I use Mob Up to combine them even if the first unit is engaged? I see nothing in the Mob Up strat that says no.

The idea with this would be to keep pouring boyz up the field and if desired, use Mob Up to prevent total wipes.

Cheers

Yes. This is something you can indeed do.

"Remain engaged in combat" isn't actually a rule anymore.

As a practical matter, it's typically defined as 'within 1" of an enemy'. But it's defined ad-hoc wherever needed. So if it's not stated in the rule (mob rule), it's not relevant.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
In the OP’s example that’s a moot point, as the resulting uberunit would be within 1” of the enemy, so shooting and charging wouldn’t come into play.

I know, I just feel it's worth mentioning related issues when someone asks about a particular rule.

Fair point on terminology and thanks for confirming this strategy guys. Another tool in the Orky tool box

Mind you in original scenario it's pretty hard to get unit A be nearly wiped out(needs to be max 10 unless new unit is max 10 and old one is still 10 or more) while in combat and new unit be da jumped nearby. You need about 7" tail away from enemy to get them close enough...Unless enemy unit is very tiny you are leaving lots of boyz out of combat to prepare for this


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stux wrote:
You can use it, and this leads us to some quirky rules scenarios we don't know how to deal with.

For instance, if one unit had advanced and the other hadn't, then you combine them, has the combined unit advanced for purposes of shooting and charging?

We simply don't know for sure.

Or even better one fell back, one not...Hopefully codex clears this up.

tneva82 wrote:
Mind you in original scenario it's pretty hard to get unit A be nearly wiped out(needs to be max 10 unless new unit is max 10 and old one is still 10 or more) while in combat and new unit be da jumped nearby. You need about 7" tail away from enemy to get them close enough...Unless enemy unit is very tiny you are leaving lots of boyz out of combat to prepare for this


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stux wrote:
You can use it, and this leads us to some quirky rules scenarios we don't know how to deal with.

For instance, if one unit had advanced and the other hadn't, then you combine them, has the combined unit advanced for purposes of shooting and charging?

We simply don't know for sure.

Or even better one fell back, one not...Hopefully codex clears this up.

Unlikely. Guard have a similar strat, and that has (to my knowledge) never been clarified.

Well one can always try to hope that GW one of these days learns from their mistakes!

Edit: you can't do this because dajump happens in the psychic phase and mob up is in movement phase

You can do it turn 3

I've had a guardsman player inform me that his two units combined become a new unit. As such his 10man screen that fell back from combat and his 2nd 10man screen that were not in combat were able to 'first rank second rank' because the new unit did not fall back.

I'm unsure if that is applicable in this conversation.

It’s one interpretation of it and one way to solve the issue. I mean, it has no solid rules backing, but it’s one way to resolve things. Nowhere does that Stratagem call them a ‘new unit’, absolved of any restrictions previously applicable to its halves.

Fragile wrote:
You can do it turn 3

Not with da jump. You need to wait a turn to mob up. So T1 da jump, T2 mob up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hollow one wrote:
I've had a guardsman player inform me that his two units combined become a new unit. As such his 10man screen that fell back from combat and his 2nd 10man screen that were not in combat were able to 'first rank second rank' because the new unit did not fall back.

I'm unsure if that is applicable in this conversation.

One way to look but not how rules tell. As it is rules don't say anything one way or another. You need to house rule yourself how you play it.

Brutal, that ruling cost me a game :/

 hollow one wrote:
Brutal, that ruling cost me a game :/

Common sense (which is forbidden ) states that atleast half his squad, the one squad that has fallen back, should not be able to fire.
Rulewise he is however perfectly fine, it would be better and more decisive if the stratagem would state that this unit would be a "new" unit in a way since this "new" unit would've not been in melee so to speak therefore bypassing the whole falling back thing but it doesn't.

Probably GW needs to do something about it, mainly to clarify as it seems either that it is a intended mechanic that says screw you to the BRB ( unlikely since Am is not aeldari, cough cough.) or it is a non intended mechanic which just got RAW'ed.

\deathwatch have a rule where they can mix units. If the mixed unit has one inceptor in it then the whole squad can benefit from the fly keyword bonus of being able to fall back and charge.

This is not really precedent for the situation being discussed but it suggests that GW may intend it to work such that the new unit can do whatever one of the previous units could do. Definitely needs clearing up. I expect mob up to create a lot of rules interaction queries like this

 Nithaniel wrote:
\deathwatch have a rule where they can mix units. If the mixed unit has one inceptor in it then the whole squad can benefit from the fly keyword bonus of being able to fall back and charge.

This is not really precedent for the situation being discussed but it suggests that GW may intend it to work such that the new unit can do whatever one of the previous units could do. Definitely needs clearing up. I expect mob up to create a lot of rules interaction queries like this

Wait, that works? How is that possible? Do they form a Pyramid ontop of the intercissor and took to the heavens?!?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:
\deathwatch have a rule where they can mix units. If the mixed unit has one inceptor in it then the whole squad can benefit from the fly keyword bonus of being able to fall back and charge.

This is not really precedent for the situation being discussed but it suggests that GW may intend it to work such that the new unit can do whatever one of the previous units could do. Definitely needs clearing up. I expect mob up to create a lot of rules interaction queries like this

Wait, that works?

Yes, sort of, as per the Inceptor Strike rule in the Deathwatch codex, Page 73.

They can fall back and shoot, not fall back and charge.

A veteran mixed squad that includes any Bikers can charge later that turn if it Falls Back though. (Relentless Assault rule Deathwatch codex, Page 72).

How is that possible?

Because of the aforementioned rules on the aforementioned page make it possible.

Do they form a Pyramid ontop[sic] of the intercissor[sic] and took to the heavens?!?

Fluff is not rules so it does not matter how they do it, just that the rules allow them to do that.

tneva82 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
You can do it turn 3

Not with da jump. You need to wait a turn to mob up. So T1 da jump, T2 mob up.

The OP asked about using Mob Up on two units of boyz that both used Da Jump. That can only be done on turn 3 or later, so you cannot T2 mob up.

edit: nevermind