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A Unit from the Black Templar Chapter can use any datasheet usable by a force constructed using Codex Spaces Marines with the (Chapter) or Black Templar faction keyword with the following exceptions:
-​Adeptus Astartes Pyskers​​ -​Adeptus Astartes Centurions
-​Adeptus Astartes Whirlwinds ​​-A​deptus Astartes Scouts
-Adeptus Astartes Company Veterans ​​-Honor Guard
-Sternguard Veterans -Vanguard Veterans
-Dreadnought -Venerable Dreadnought
-Devastator Squad -Assault Squad
-Tactical Squad -Bike Squad

In addition to the above restrictions, a Black Templar is also permitted to use the following units:
-Avalon Dreadnought -Durandal Dreadnought
-Sword Brothers -Sword Brothers on Bike
-Household Brothers -Conquistador Squad
-Cavalier Squad -Neophyte Ancient
-Marshall-Champion Almerich -Castellan Draco

The following datasheets unit keywords are replaced when they are taken as part of the Black Templar Chapter, the new keyword is noted by ():
-​Adeptus Astartes Captain ​​(Marshall)
-​Adeptus Astartes Lieutenant ​​(Castallen)
-​Adeptus Astartes Company Ancient ​​(Crusade Ancient)
-​Adeptus Astartes Company Champion ​​(Crusade Champion)
-Chapter Ancient (Household Ancient)
-Chapter Champion (Household Champion)

The noted datasheets below gain the unit keyword CHAMPION;
-​Black Templar Crusade Champion
-Household Champion
-Emperor’s Champion

A Land Raider Crusader is taken by the Black Templar Chapter, may be taken as a Dedicated Transport or a Heavy Support option.
In addition to the various rules and permissions listed above when a unit is taken as part of the Black Templar Chapter using these rules replace (CHAPTER) on its datasheet replace with faction keyword Black Templar for all purposes.

If an army is Battleforged and contains a Black Templar Detachment, all non-SERVITOR Infantry, Dreadnought and Bike Units gain the following rule:
Black Templar Units May Rerolled Failed Charges
If you have a Black Templar Warlord Trait, unless it’s a special character choose one of the following rules or roll a dice
1-Rite Of War: Black Templar Units within 6” autopass Morale
2-Oathkeeper: The character heroics intervention 6” instead of the normal 3”
3-Angel of Death: Enemy units within 6” of the character have a -1 their to leadership
4-Master Craftsman: choose a Melee Weapon (or Weapons in case of Lighting Claws) that is not a Relic, wielded by the character, increase it’s damage by 1
5-Vow of Honor: Non-Character Black Templar’s models armed with a MELEE Weapon that has an AP of -1 or Greater, and are in Units that are within 6” of the Warlord, may attack an additional time with that weapon. If this trait is taken via Scion of Sigismund Strategem, as long as the bear is on table, if friendly Black Templar Units benefit from aura if they are in 6” of any friendly Black Templar CHARACTER .
6-Vow of Vengeance: Friendly Black Templar Models within 6” attacking with an AP 0 MELEE Weapon, increase the AP of that Weapon by 1. If a Black Templar CHAMPION via Scion of Sigismund takes this trait every Black Templar Unit within 6” is affected instead of just every model within 6”

If a Black Templar army is Battleforged it can use, beside tactical flexibility, any stratagems from Codex Space Marines alongside the stratagems that are listed below following ones from listed below
-Champion Visions 1CP: Nominate a Black Templar ​CHARACTER ​​before battle in your army beside Helbrect, Grimaldus, or Draco without the ​CHAMPION ​​keyword the model immediately gains the ​CHAMPION ​​Keyword.
-Slayer of Champions 1CP: Use whenever a Black Templar ​CHAMPION​​ slays an enemy CHARACTER ​​or ​MONSTER ​​model​ ​​in close combat. Immediately gain 1d3 Command Points. If the slain model was both, ​CHARACTER a​​nd ​MONSTER​​, gain 1d3+1 Command Points instead.
-Eternal Crusade 1 CP: Use on a friendly BLACK TEMPLAR unit during the shooting phase, that model may shoot any strength 6 or lower weapons, at the closest enemy unit, even those within one inch.
-Scion of Sigsmund 1CP: You may pre-game nominate a Black Templar CHAMPION Model to receive a warlord Trait in addition to your normal allowances. This Warlord Trait can only be the Vow of Honor or Vow of Vengeance.

Relics of the Eternal Crusade
The Black Templar ​CHARACTERS when choosing a relic, can take any relic from Codex Space Marines (that the model be normally eligible for) except Standard of the Emperor’s Ascendent. They may also choose one of the two relics below
Holy Orb of Antioch: Black Templar Marshall or Chaplain only. Once per a game when the bearer makes a shooting attack where it could use a grenade, it may throw the Orb instead of its normal shooting. Make a single shooting attack against an enemy unit within 6”. If it hits, the target unit suffers d6 mortal wounds.
Banner of First Champion: ​BLACK TEMPLAR ANCIENT ​​only. A model bearing the Banner of First Champion, gains the following rules in addition to any rules it normally has. It may attempt to deny enemy Pyskers once a psychic phase. Black Templar Units within 6” of the banner roll 2 dice and take the highest for advancing.
Heretic’s Redemption: Replaces a Model’s Combi-Melta. Heretic’s Wrath uses a combi-melta profile except the melta will always does 2d6 damage take the highest regardless of being in half range.


UU datasheets (Quick and Dirty Summary)
Avalon Dreadnought (Venerable Datasheet, changing keyword and name, Venerable Dreadnought to Avalon Dreadnought)
Durandal Dreadnought (Dreadnought Datasheet, changing keyword and name, Dreadnought to Durandal Dreadnought).

Avalon and Durandal Dreadnought: In addition to the normal options available to Venerable and regular Dreadnoughts, can also replace their Assault Cannon with a Hurricane Bolter or a Dreadnought close combat weapon.

Additionally both the Avalon and Durandal Dreadnought have the following rule “Unrelenting Zeal: If this model is armed with two Dreadnought close combat weapon, it increases its attack characteristic by 1.”

———
Sword Brothers/Sword Brothers on Bike (Company Veterans/Company Veterans on Bike Datasheet, changing the name and keyword to Sword Brothers/Sword Brothers on Bike)

Sword Brothers: The Squad is the same as Company Veteran except for the following the Sword Brother has a squad size of 2-10 instead of 2-5 and the squad no longer contains a sergeant or equivalent.

———
Household Brothers (Honor Gaurd Datasheet changing the keyword and name to Household Brothers)

Household Brothers: The Honor Guard datasheet is used for Household Brothers with the following additions and changes. The Household Brothers have squad size of 2-10 instead of 2. Furthermore any model in the squad may take replace it’s Power Ax with a mastercrafted Power Sword, in addition to other options.

Dorn’s Memory: “If a Black Templar CHARACTER is charged within 3” of this unit. The squad may heroic intervention as if it were a character.”

———
Neophyte Ancient (Company Ancient Datasheet name and keyword is changed to Neophyte Ancient).

Neophyte Ancient: Has one less wound, attack, save, leadership but 20 points cheaper compared to Company Ancients. It can only take boltgun, chainsword or shotgun.

———
Conquistadors (Assault Marines with keywords and named change to Conquistador Squad)

Conquistador Squad: A Conquistador Squad uses Assault Marine Datasheet with following changes. Any model that could take Flamer, Plasma Pistol, or an Eviscerator may take Power Weapon instead. Up two Eviscerators may be taken per Squad and not limited by Squad size unlike Assault Squads. Every initaite may take combat shields.

———
Cavalier Squad (Biker Squad with keyword and name changed to Cavalier Squad).

Cavalier Squad: The Squad uses the Space Marine Biker Datasheet with the following addendums. Any model that could take a special weapon may instead take a Power Weapon. The squad size is 3-10 Initaite Bikers and may include up 5 Neophyte Bikers. A Cavalier Squad may not include an attack bike. Neophyte Bikers have the points, wargear profile of the Space Marine Scout Bikers except Neophyte Bikers do not have a Shotgun and are leadership 6.

—————
Several of these units look like simple copy and paste jobs but beside character renames each new unit is actually subtly different from their codex counterpart. Secondly the new major newest units; Cavalier and Conquistador, both allow 1A power weapons. And the Trait vows are meant to support these units or chainswordd. What is also notable I will point out is that this army has strayed away from a copy and paste of Angels/SW. Instead focusing more on the JoeMarine, with the Cavalier and Conquistador being case in point. And secondly due to the book drawing from C:SM several keyword renames are important. Notably Captain > Marshall, the point is to follow the pattern of non-vanilla marines not having access to the chapter master Strategem.

Other major change is the CHAMPION keyword and the three associated Strategems. This brings back the focus to the Emperor’s Champion but also following past flavor where every Black Templar Force had an ‘Emperor’s Champion’ while retaining the Emperor’s Champion as a unique unit. Finally to help support and to better leverage a battalion, is Neophyte Ancient. A weakness of a tide is getting Alpha. At 43-50 points a model it isn’t unreasonable to take a couple of these to help better spread your tide and the leadership making of 9 means that you need to lose 8+ models for battle shock to hurt.

What everyone’s opanion?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/11 13:38:38


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Why would they lose that many options? I know people are upset about being rolled into the vanilla codex, but mostly they didn't lose anything. What IS the difference you miss from Sword Brethren compared to Vanguard?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




1) Sword Brothern are Company Veterans not Vangaurd. Sword Brothern could take heavy weapons and special weapons. Company Veterans rules wise are Sword Brothern minus having a Sgt and low squad size.

2) Sword Brothern would be more akin to Wolf Gaurds then Vangaurd. Also it’s a flavor thing and losing those units are espacially for Stern because those simply in flavor not a seperation Templars have.

Why they lose Scouts? Because flavorfully they really shouldn’t be things Templar’s have given the doctrine of pairing teacher and student. Tacticals; same reason Space Wolves And Chaos Marines don’t, we have Crusader Squads. Assault/Devestator; Templar’s don’t use the battle company formation. Devies and Whirlwinds weren’t in the actual BT Codex. Assault Squads in Templar’s have a few notable differences in Armageddon and Black Templar notably had access to Storm Shields And up to 3 Power Weapons (Vangaurd Squads are more like OGBT Assault Squads then Sword Brothern). Secondly this is done to give a point for having rules dedicated to supporting 1A Power Weapons.

Dreadnought absence is because the Durandal is exists being a reg dreadnought that can take hurricane arms or another dccw must having the actual Dread sheet redundant. Avalon vs Venerable same deal.

Cavalier Squads draws from Armageddon and Black Templars which allowed you take 0-5 scout bikers in the former and 0-3 Power Weapons in the latter. Bike Squads were dropped because they were made redundant

Centurions and I should debatably add Thunderfires, are just too slow and against the Black Templar force being constantly (not fast moving) force as the centurions be left behind.0
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Soooooo you take Command Squads then. It seems you're more upset with losing the unit names because otherwise you basically have all the same tools.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I do? It’s called restoration of flavor it’s bringing back parts of the army lost in the switch over and to help better define how the Templars are a melee force vs BA/SW

The main things here Cavalier (Biker Crusader) and the Conquistador (Assault Squads). And the Warlord Traits + Scion of Sigismund Strategem. Did you read the thread?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/10 20:36:18


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Names aren't as important as crunch. That's just the way it is. I've also seen many a Black Templar thread pop up and it's always like this one. You suggest unit names and the units were already there. Your Calvalier Bikers are literally just the Command Squad Bikers. Everyone knows they probably need to be a little cheaper too

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Names aren't as important as crunch. That's just the way it is. I've also seen many a Black Templar thread pop up and it's always like this one. You suggest unit names and the units were already there. Your Calvalier Bikers are literally just the Command Squad Bikers. Everyone knows they probably need to be a little cheaper too


You literally did not read the thread then
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Texas

Few things..

*Why the restriction on Centurions? Assault Centurion Squads seems highly appropriate for BT.
*Not sure why you would want to restrict the Whirlwind, Scouts, Honor Guard, VV, Venerable Dread?
*Makes no sense to restrict the Assault Squad at all. BT is all about getting in your face with CC.
*The additional CP generation feels a bit OP.


The additional stuff feels like added mass chaos, but that could just be me and not your content.

Personally I think BT are in a nice place given that they don't have a codex. I would LOVE To see Sword Brothers come back as a stand alone unit. Maybe make them an elite choice, but leave the single Sword Brother option in the Crusader Squad.

That being said, I applaud your creativity. I really hope GW shows us some love and gives us a codex.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/25 16:55:13


No Pity! No Remorse! No fear! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Sword Brothers are still there. It's the Vanguard entry.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

 Karthicus wrote:

*Not sure why you would want to restrict the Whirlwind, Scouts, Honor Guard, VV, Venerable Dread?

Regarding the Scouts, the previous Black Templar Codex never had them. They never ran a Scout Company, and all Initiates (Scout equivalents) were with Neophytes in Crusader Squads.

Honor Guard switched to Household Brothers, and changed in available size and options.

No sense for the Vanguards, they were late Sword Brother units after the Templars were incorporated in to the Codex, for all intents and purposes. The only reason I can think of is that Sword Brothers weren't allowed Jump Packs.

No sense for Venerable Dreads, other than a rename. Dreadnoughts could be upgraded to Venerable in the BT Codex.

Whirlwinds were not available in the BT Codex. Theoretically they would use the Crusader in places that other Chapters would use the Whirlwind.

 Karthicus wrote:
*Makes no sense to restrict the Assault Squad at all. BT is all about getting in your face with CC.

It's replaced by the Conquistador Squad.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in se
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sweden

 Charistoph wrote:
 Karthicus wrote:

*Not sure why you would want to restrict the Whirlwind, Scouts, Honor Guard, VV, Venerable Dread?

Regarding the Scouts, the previous Black Templar Codex never had them. They never ran a Scout Company, and all Initiates (Scout equivalents) were with Neophytes in Crusader Squads.

Honor Guard switched to Household Brothers, and changed in available size and options.

No sense for the Vanguards, they were late Sword Brother units after the Templars were incorporated in to the Codex, for all intents and purposes. The only reason I can think of is that Sword Brothers weren't allowed Jump Packs.

No sense for Venerable Dreads, other than a rename. Dreadnoughts could be upgraded to Venerable in the BT Codex.

Whirlwinds were not available in the BT Codex. Theoretically they would use the Crusader in places that other Chapters would use the Whirlwind.

 Karthicus wrote:
*Makes no sense to restrict the Assault Squad at all. BT is all about getting in your face with CC.


It's replaced by the Conquistador Squad.
in the 4th ed black templar codex, last page is a chapter organisation fluff page. The black templar crusade on armageddon contains both whirlwinds and scout bikers.

Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




If they had Scout bikers, they'll have regular Scouts too.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

Gitdakka wrote:in the 4th ed black templar codex, last page is a chapter organisation fluff page. The black templar crusade on armageddon contains both whirlwinds and scout bikers.

And on pages 41-42 is the entire Heavy Support section which does not have Whirlwinds. Therefore, they were not available in the BT Codex. GW rules and fluff, it is a crazy relationship.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:If they had Scout bikers, they'll have regular Scouts too.

They didn't in the 4th Ed book. Just Power-Armored Bikers and Attack Bike Squads.

The Armageddon Codex did allow for Neophyte Bikers to be added to the squads, as well as Whirlwinds, if I remember correctly. It has been a long while since I looked at that one.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Never responded to thread assumed it died, but it apparently did not and now to answer the various critique;
The RegDread And VenDread became the Durandal and Avalon Dreadnought respectively.

And Charistoph that was exactly inspiration for Cavaliar Squad (a Crusader Bike Squad). Was the Codex Armageddon Biker Crusader Squads.

And I believe there was a short period in Armageddon Whirlwinds might been legal. But Centurions (And honeslty Thunderfires), specifically because only Vanilla Marines hav them. And I don’t see them fitting the Templar method of war which is involves a constant movements and not holding sedentary positions.

Thunderfires honeslty should be on the list too. The Champion CP thing was inspired by Tyranid Lictor Strategem and so players don’t just try to hide their champions and actually use them to engage
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Centurions absolutely fit the Templar modus operandi. They fill the same role as Terminators; jumping out of a Land Raider to blast a hole in the enemy lines for the rest of the Crusaders to charge into.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 00:30:44


For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Centurions absolutely fit the Templar modus operandi. They fill the same role as Terminators; jumping out of a Land Raider to blast a hole in the enemy lines for the rest of the Crusaders to charge into.

That's definitely a siege tool they would use.

Seriously Black Templars really didn't lose anything moving into the main codex outside the vows (which I think could be handled via how they're doing Detachment bonuses right now. Peak the Imperial Fists Siege Cohort if you don't know what I'm referring to).

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Forgot to add Vangaurd/Sterngaurd/Company Veterans were replaced by a dedicated Sword Brother Unit. And in terms of Rules Sword Brothers were closer to Company Veterans.

And I just don’t see it Walrus, I see Centurions as faux turrets like Thunderfires. Or slow moving deliberate, not something for constant movement and aggression of Black Templars
   
Made in us
Terrifying Rhinox Rider




It seems like a specific combination of options and stratagems will allow you to have normal squad members use power weapons with two attacks, which will help your infantry squads be slightly effective in combat, and all the other options are superficial.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




And Cavaliar (Biker), and Conquistador (Assault) Squads. And yes that is one of the basic point is contrast, Wolves and Angels focus on their more exotic units.
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

I would also add the old Vow system they had back in their 4th Ed Codex. You could run it similar to the SW's saga rule, where you have to pick a Vow before the game starts and it affects you Warlord. If your Warlord accomplishes a certain task (depending on the Vow), then the effects of the Vow extend to an aura, say 12".
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Schlitzaf wrote:
Forgot to add Vangaurd/Sterngaurd/Company Veterans were replaced by a dedicated Sword Brother Unit. And in terms of Rules Sword Brothers were closer to Company Veterans.

And I just don’t see it Walrus, I see Centurions as faux turrets like Thunderfires. Or slow moving deliberate, not something for constant movement and aggression of Black Templars

Under that logic, why would Black Templars ever use Terminators?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Schlitzaf wrote:
Forgot to add Vangaurd/Sterngaurd/Company Veterans were replaced by a dedicated Sword Brother Unit. And in terms of Rules Sword Brothers were closer to Company Veterans.

And I just don’t see it Walrus, I see Centurions as faux turrets like Thunderfires. Or slow moving deliberate, not something for constant movement and aggression of Black Templars

Under that logic, why would Black Templars ever use Terminators?


Boarding actions where Centurions wouldn't fit, which is one of the Chapter's specialties. I agree that it's a weak argument though.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Schlitzaf wrote:
Forgot to add Vangaurd/Sterngaurd/Company Veterans were replaced by a dedicated Sword Brother Unit. And in terms of Rules Sword Brothers were closer to Company Veterans.

And I just don’t see it Walrus, I see Centurions as faux turrets like Thunderfires. Or slow moving deliberate, not something for constant movement and aggression of Black Templars

Under that logic, why would Black Templars ever use Terminators?


Boarding actions where Centurions wouldn't fit, which is one of the Chapter's specialties. I agree that it's a weak argument though.

Meh, that's what Eviscerators are for under that logic, as Assault Marines would be terribly fast moving compared to Terminators.

Still a weak argument.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Schlitzaf wrote:
Forgot to add Vangaurd/Sterngaurd/Company Veterans were replaced by a dedicated Sword Brother Unit. And in terms of Rules Sword Brothers were closer to Company Veterans.

And I just don’t see it Walrus, I see Centurions as faux turrets like Thunderfires. Or slow moving deliberate, not something for constant movement and aggression of Black Templars

Under that logic, why would Black Templars ever use Terminators?


Boarding actions where Centurions wouldn't fit, which is one of the Chapter's specialties. I agree that it's a weak argument though.

Meh, that's what Eviscerators are for under that logic, as Assault Marines would be terribly fast moving compared to Terminators.

Still a weak argument.


Assault Marines absolutely can't fit in corridors.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Schlitzaf wrote:
Forgot to add Vangaurd/Sterngaurd/Company Veterans were replaced by a dedicated Sword Brother Unit. And in terms of Rules Sword Brothers were closer to Company Veterans.

And I just don’t see it Walrus, I see Centurions as faux turrets like Thunderfires. Or slow moving deliberate, not something for constant movement and aggression of Black Templars

Under that logic, why would Black Templars ever use Terminators?


Boarding actions where Centurions wouldn't fit, which is one of the Chapter's specialties. I agree that it's a weak argument though.

Meh, that's what Eviscerators are for under that logic, as Assault Marines would be terribly fast moving compared to Terminators.

Still a weak argument.


Assault Marines absolutely can't fit in corridors.
Assault Marines don't have to have jump packs.


They/them

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Bingo!

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

In which case they're called "Crusader Squads" and still don't have the durability of a Terminator in close confines where their relative lack of mobility is irrelevant because the Terminators can't be flanked anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/09 00:57:06


For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





For what it's worth, GW have actually given BT Sword Brethren and even the Holy Orb in the Vigilus book.

Sure, it costs a CP to make them Sword Brethren, and more CP to use the stuff they get (ignoring wounds on a 5+ and rerolling wounds in melee+1 Attack), but hey, it's there.


They/them

 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
For what it's worth, GW have actually given BT Sword Brethren and even the Holy Orb in the Vigilus book.

Sure, it costs a CP to make them Sword Brethren, and more CP to use the stuff they get (ignoring wounds on a 5+ and rerolling wounds in melee+1 Attack), but hey, it's there.


The most insulting part though is that you can't make terminators, vanguard, or sternguard sword brethren for some bizarre reason. Better hope you like using company vets, cause thats all you're getting!
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Grimskul wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
For what it's worth, GW have actually given BT Sword Brethren and even the Holy Orb in the Vigilus book.

Sure, it costs a CP to make them Sword Brethren, and more CP to use the stuff they get (ignoring wounds on a 5+ and rerolling wounds in melee+1 Attack), but hey, it's there.

The most insulting part though is that you can't make terminators, vanguard, or sternguard sword brethren for some bizarre reason. Better hope you like using company vets, cause thats all you're getting!

Is that insulting? It seems to me GW listened to people who whined BT shouldn't have these units (purely on the basis that 4th edition book didn't have them, only because it was before they were added to the game...), shrugged, and said "fine, you don't want nice veterans, then you will get old generic haphazard ones, happy now?".

If they did add vanguard and sternguard, the complains would be about forced Codexization or something instead, complete with claims on "loss" of nonexistent headcanon flavor (just look above, stuff BT had in their own book is unflavorful and badwrongfun for some reason now...). GW can't really win these days, can they?
   
 
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