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So as a returning collector after 20 odd years, my Grey Knight army is a few models off completion.
Next up is Tyranids, I have the 8th Edition Codex, plus a load of models from the early 90's, I have (approx, all are 2nd edition version, some metal):
15 or so Termagants
15 or so Genestealers
15 or so Hormagants
3x Tyranid Warriors
2x Hive Tyrants
1x Lictor
1x Zoanthrope
1x Carnifex
Some biovores (I think I have 3, with some spore mines)
Some really tiny little things (no idea what they are!)
I am aiming for a 2000pts matched play legal army, I am not that bothered about how competitive it is (I'm very much form over factor) - looking at the codex I guess I am way short on points.
So my questions, where to go from here? What's hot and what's not?
Personal preference but I am not a fan of large citadel models, hive tyrants/swarm lord size is fine, but nothing larger. Trygons, Tyranofex etc, too large. I also don't like flyers particularly (although could be convinced) and prefer models that have legs (so don't float, or "walk" on their tails), but again I could be convinced.
Carnifexes are pretty darn hot at the moment so couple more wouldn't go amiss. Stealers are also good. And if you want to use the gaunts you def are going to need to up the size of those.
For hive tyrants wings are super useful.
BTW tactic thread for tyranids in tactic forum. Lots of good info there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/11 08:51:03
Some players who likely wouldn't be worth playing with anyway might complain about "modeling for advantage" but you can ignore those safely. Generally reasonable people have no problem with older players and if you have old and new ones it's pretty obvious you aren't angle shooting but just using your old models you already owned.
I got very beaten up last night by a nids list which was basically...
Kraken battalion (fast moving assault)
2 flying hive tyrants
bunch of genestealers
bunch of shooty gaunts
Kronos (reroll 1s if you don't move)
flyrant
2 x 6 hive guard (great shooting doesn't need LOS - S8 AP-2 d3 dmg)
some of the list stands out of LOS and shreds you
Some of the list flys up in your face and fires all the bulelts at you
some of the list runs up in your face and murders you.
TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.
BUDFORCE wrote: So as a returning collector after 20 odd years, my Grey Knight army is a few models off completion.
Next up is Tyranids, I have the 8th Edition Codex, plus a load of models from the early 90's, I have (approx, all are 2nd edition version, some metal):
15 or so Termagants
15 or so Genestealers
15 or so Hormagants
3x Tyranid Warriors
2x Hive Tyrants
1x Lictor
1x Zoanthrope
1x Carnifex
Some biovores (I think I have 3, with some spore mines)
Some really tiny little things (no idea what they are!)
I am aiming for a 2000pts matched play legal army, I am not that bothered about how competitive it is (I'm very much form over factor) - looking at the codex I guess I am way short on points.
So my questions, where to go from here? What's hot and what's not?
Personal preference but I am not a fan of large citadel models, hive tyrants/swarm lord size is fine, but nothing larger. Trygons, Tyranofex etc, too large. I also don't like flyers particularly (although could be convinced) and prefer models that have legs (so don't float, or "walk" on their tails), but again I could be convinced.
The little guys are all great, so that's a good start.
Warriors are so so. They have one clearly best loadout right now which is Boneswords and Deathspitters. Just so much better than any other options for the cost! T4 and an average save makes them a little risky to run though, especially if you're relying on them for synapse for your hoards.
Hive Tyrants are pretty good, but you really want them to be flying. If it's the older models you have, then they won't have wings. Consider converting wings for them! Honestly, they're great!
Carnifexes are a mixed bag. A bit too fragile for their cost, but they have their place. If you do want to take them, the shooty ones are generally considered best, but again if it's the older model you may be stuck with talons. If that's the case, give them Spore Cysts and hope for the best!
Lictors are considered pretty bad, but it's only 45pts for a bit of disruption so... Fine.
Biovores are ok.
You can't run a single Zoanthrope, they come in 3s now. But that's ok! Neurothropes are a thing, the model is almost identical to a Zoanthrope anyway, and they are fantastic.
Stux wrote: You can't run a single Zoanthrope, they come in 3s now. But that's ok! Neurothropes are a thing, the model is almost identical to a Zoanthrope anyway, and they are fantastic.
That's not entirely true. You could run an understrength unit of just 1. You'd still have to pay the points for the missing ones, but it might be an easier option than tracking down 2 more early 90s models to match (since the OP said he likes things with legs, not floating/walking on their tales)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/11 11:20:02
Stux wrote: You can't run a single Zoanthrope, they come in 3s now. But that's ok! Neurothropes are a thing, the model is almost identical to a Zoanthrope anyway, and they are fantastic.
That's not entirely true. You could run an understrength unit of just 1. You'd still have to pay the points for the missing ones, but it might be an easier option than tracking down 2 more early 90s models to match (since the OP said he likes things with legs, not floating/walking on their tales)
Technically true. In matched play it needs to be in Auxiliary support though and so costs 1cp.
Basically just take it as a Neurothropes, they're ace.
Stux wrote: You can't run a single Zoanthrope, they come in 3s now. But that's ok! Neurothropes are a thing, the model is almost identical to a Zoanthrope anyway, and they are fantastic.
That's not entirely true. You could run an understrength unit of just 1. You'd still have to pay the points for the missing ones, but it might be an easier option than tracking down 2 more early 90s models to match (since the OP said he likes things with legs, not floating/walking on their tales)
If you are using points, you only pay the points for the models you actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear they are equipped with).
BUDFORCE wrote: Good to hear! I like Carnifex's (mine is the old metal 2nd edition version) but I think I actually prefer the new plastic versions better.
Any issues including the old version in with them?
Also love Genestealers.
Good news so far!
No issues at all with the old models. You paid for a GW model and anyone not letting you use it is not playing by the rules for army building.
Anyway, Carnifexes are great. Dakkafexes are the bomb, if not, stripped down melee ones with tusks and Bone Mace for the bonus attacks are also tough. Be aware that they are best in multiples.
Both Gaunts and Gants are good. You'll work out which you prefer and how many after a few games. 1 or 2 units of Rippers are nice too.
Genestealers are raw, 1 or 2 units are pretty amazing and autoclass basically everything else CC.
hive Guard is the dexes most optimal anti tank with the shoot twice stratagem.
Neurothropes, Flying Hive Tyrants, or a Malanthrope are all good synapse sources, it depends on what you want for your list.
Kraken is the best Hive Fleet for most units, but it's to taste. Genestealers NEED it though Other ones serve their place too just make sure you know why you're leaving the significant speed and tricks that come with Kraken on the table
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
Thanks for all the replies guys, this is all very encouraging.
I love Genestealers I said, so will probably focus on a swarm type army, lots of genestealers, lots of Hormagants, and a lesser number of termingants.
Supported by the models as above, but adding Carnifexes, probably a Swarm Lord to make up 3 HQ units (I saw a swarm lord being used in a battle report I watched on youtube and it was awesome).
I will use the Zoanthrope as a Neurothrope as suggested.
And yes the rippers, I guess they are good for holding a command point if nothing else.
Did I mention LOTS of genestealers hahaha, probably use the termagants/hormagants as a screen.
But my model count..... oh dear, gonna wear out some paint brushes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/11 20:21:38
the gaunts, carnifex and genestealers are good, like mentioned before.
I really like to have some warriors (12) on the field together with a prime. that hq lets them shine
the biovores are also good. They got more expensive but are still worth the points IMO for friendly games, i most of the time bring one or 2 lictor/deathleaper for deepstrike-character sniping and they can bring genestealers (or other troops i think) with them because pheromone stratagem.
I also have the doom of malantai zoanthrope from 5th ed, and i use it as neurothrope, and it is a very reliable hq.
Oh, and the rippers. i never leave without them. just keep them in reserve until your enemy leaves a obj, and deepstrike those little bugs on it. they're so easy to hide .
So you've got a good base to start from
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 05:46:43
Dakka is the ork word for shooting, but the ork concept of shooting is saturation fire. Just as there is no such thing as a "miss" in a target-rich environment, there is no such thing as a "dodge" in a bullet rich one
You get 1 swarm with the Termagant box. Forgeworld sell them separately, but they are of course quite expensive.
I think you get 7 rippers in the termagant box. 1 on each of the 3 body sprues, and one on each of the 4 weapon sprues.
You can get away with putting 3 rippers on a base, so you can get 2 bases out of it.
You also get a single ripper in the ravener box.
A box of 8 genestealers comes with 2 spinemaw rippers.
The old warrior box came with some, but alas the new one does not.
You get 1 swarm with the Termagant box. Forgeworld sell them separately, but they are of course quite expensive.
I think you get 7 rippers in the termagant box. 1 on each of the 3 body sprues, and one on each of the 4 weapon sprues.
You can get away with putting 3 rippers on a base, so you can get 2 bases out of it.
You also get a single ripper in the ravener box.
A box of 8 genestealers comes with 2 spinemaw rippers.
The old warrior box came with some, but alas the new one does not.
Yeah, you still have to buy extra bases then though. Not that expensive, but a little bit of a pain!
Now with link. Rippers are about £1.60 each. Must be cheaper than FW.
Hope that helps!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 11:31:17
Please note, for those of you who play Chaos Daemons as a faction the term "Daemon" is potentially offensive. Instead, please play codex "Chaos: Mortally Challenged". Thank you.
I know you said you don't want any big models, but I'd consider adding a Trygon as it is an awesome delivery system for you gants and genestealers. It's not the toughest unit in the game, but he tears trough armor better than any other unit in the codex. Twice now, I have taken out a monolith in a single fight phase with him and I'd imagine he could do the same against an Knight if you pop a couple of the monster buffing stratagems on him. Plus if you purchase the start collecting box, you will get 8 more genestealers as well as a broodlord.
And speaking of broodlord, the Broodlord in my opinion is absolutely essential if you have a significant number of genestealers in your list. He buffs them and can cast an array of psychic powers that are helpful in support. I usually run it with either The Horror or Catalyst to help give my genestealers some extra protection. Added bonus, the Broodlord can absolutely shred light armor and he pops Characters like breath mints - which he will need plenty of as he gorges on your opponent's tears.
For speed painting - spray prime, spray undercoat a light colour, wash over light colour, base paint armour plates, quick highlight and details = done.
I do bone/black, as a quick brown wash + highlight works (I am a lazy painter).
cweg127 wrote: I know you said you don't want any big models, but I'd consider adding a Trygon as it is an awesome delivery system for you gants and genestealers. It's not the toughest unit in the game, but he tears trough armor better than any other unit in the codex. Twice now, I have taken out a monolith in a single fight phase with him and I'd imagine he could do the same against an Knight if you pop a couple of the monster buffing stratagems on him. Plus if you purchase the start collecting box, you will get 8 more genestealers as well as a broodlord.
And speaking of broodlord, the Broodlord in my opinion is absolutely essential if you have a significant number of genestealers in your list. He buffs them and can cast an array of psychic powers that are helpful in support. I usually run it with either The Horror or Catalyst to help give my genestealers some extra protection. Added bonus, the Broodlord can absolutely shred light armor and he pops Characters like breath mints - which he will need plenty of as he gorges on your opponent's tears.
Firstly thanks for your post and contribution.
I am afraid I will need to stand my ground against a Trygon, despite how good it may be. Personally it's way too large, I don't like the larger models, plus I don't actually like the model either (even if it were smalller) looks like some kind of spiney snake or serpent but not what I would consider a Tyranid.
The Brood Lord on the other hand.... you might have just sold me on that, particularly as I am planning a Genestealer heavy army.
I am afraid I will need to stand my ground against a Trygon, despite how good it may be. Personally it's way too large, I don't like the larger models, plus I don't actually like the model either (even if it were smalller) looks like some kind of spiney snake or serpent but not what I would consider a Tyranid.
The Trygon is essentially a very well-fed Ravager, though it does play completely differently. Also, I notice you don't seem to have the same aversion to Zoanthropes, and they are very snake-like as well.
I am afraid I will need to stand my ground against a Trygon, despite how good it may be. Personally it's way too large, I don't like the larger models, plus I don't actually like the model either (even if it were smalller) looks like some kind of spiney snake or serpent but not what I would consider a Tyranid.
The Trygon is essentially a very well-fed Ravager, though it does play completely differently. Also, I notice you don't seem to have the same aversion to Zoanthropes, and they are very snake-like as well.
cweg127 wrote: I know you said you don't want any big models, but I'd consider adding a Trygon as it is an awesome delivery system for you gants and genestealers. It's not the toughest unit in the game, but he tears trough armor better than any other unit in the codex. Twice now, I have taken out a monolith in a single fight phase with him and I'd imagine he could do the same against an Knight if you pop a couple of the monster buffing stratagems on him. Plus if you purchase the start collecting box, you will get 8 more genestealers as well as a broodlord.
And speaking of broodlord, the Broodlord in my opinion is absolutely essential if you have a significant number of genestealers in your list. He buffs them and can cast an array of psychic powers that are helpful in support. I usually run it with either The Horror or Catalyst to help give my genestealers some extra protection. Added bonus, the Broodlord can absolutely shred light armor and he pops Characters like breath mints - which he will need plenty of as he gorges on your opponent's tears.
Firstly thanks for your post and contribution.
I am afraid I will need to stand my ground against a Trygon, despite how good it may be. Personally it's way too large, I don't like the larger models, plus I don't actually like the model either (even if it were smalller) looks like some kind of spiney snake or serpent but not what I would consider a Tyranid.
The Brood Lord on the other hand.... you might have just sold me on that, particularly as I am planning a Genestealer heavy army.
Not taking a single Trygon will hurt your ability to play the board a fair bit unfortunately.
But if this is a line in the sand then fair enough!
While not as good an option, as an alternative I would suggest considering Jormungandr as a Hive Fleet and taking some Raveners.
This allows you to pay 1cp per unit to have units accompany the Raveners when burrowing, essentially doing what the Trygon does.
The problem you'll have otherwise is that the units you are taking, no big bugs, are rather fragile. Yes it's difficult to shoot off 60 little guys in one turn, so you will have stuff survive. But they WILL target your genestealers, and with T4, 1 wound and a 5+ save they will drop like flies if you aren't prepared.
60 w1 t4 models isn't much these days. Albeit 5++ inv saves but as orks lose 60 orks in a turn no probiemo inv save means 40. Actually not even that good as even orks get to save on 6 a bunch. So yeah you will be losing quite a bit to shooting if they are on board visibie outside comba'
cweg127 wrote: I know you said you don't want any big models, but I'd consider adding a Trygon as it is an awesome delivery system for you gants and genestealers. It's not the toughest unit in the game, but he tears trough armor better than any other unit in the codex. Twice now, I have taken out a monolith in a single fight phase with him and I'd imagine he could do the same against an Knight if you pop a couple of the monster buffing stratagems on him. Plus if you purchase the start collecting box, you will get 8 more genestealers as well as a broodlord.
And speaking of broodlord, the Broodlord in my opinion is absolutely essential if you have a significant number of genestealers in your list. He buffs them and can cast an array of psychic powers that are helpful in support. I usually run it with either The Horror or Catalyst to help give my genestealers some extra protection. Added bonus, the Broodlord can absolutely shred light armor and he pops Characters like breath mints - which he will need plenty of as he gorges on your opponent's tears.
Firstly thanks for your post and contribution.
I am afraid I will need to stand my ground against a Trygon, despite how good it may be. Personally it's way too large, I don't like the larger models, plus I don't actually like the model either (even if it were smalller) looks like some kind of spiney snake or serpent but not what I would consider a Tyranid.
The Brood Lord on the other hand.... you might have just sold me on that, particularly as I am planning a Genestealer heavy army.
Not taking a single Trygon will hurt your ability to play the board a fair bit unfortunately.
But if this is a line in the sand then fair enough!
While not as good an option, as an alternative I would suggest considering Jormungandr as a Hive Fleet and taking some Raveners.
This allows you to pay 1cp per unit to have units accompany the Raveners when burrowing, essentially doing what the Trygon does.
The problem you'll have otherwise is that the units you are taking, no big bugs, are rather fragile. Yes it's difficult to shoot off 60 little guys in one turn, so you will have stuff survive. But they WILL target your genestealers, and with T4, 1 wound and a 5+ save they will drop like flies if you aren't prepared.
I definitely second this, but I'm also a big believer in the rule of cool. If you don't like the model, don't play it. Glad I could at least sell you on the Broodlord, haha
You're definitely still going to need both a delivery system for those genestealers though as well as something to either absorb some firepower or give you some kind of added defensive buff. The genestealer's innate infiltration node ability can be handy for counter charging enemy advances, but it's not so great for more aggressive play. Perhaps you would make an exception for a tyranocyte in your list. The raveners with Jorgumngandr as Stux suggests is also a good idea. Jormungandr also has good synergy with Carnifexes as they lumber up the board.