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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Trying to figure out if trueborn are worth using or not--the extra special weapons seem nice. 5 trueborn with 4 blasters clock in at 123 points, while 10 warriors with 2 blasters would be 94 points. Is it worth sacrificing bodies for more blasters in the current meta? I tossed in a wych cult for free CP but I wonder if a small craftworld detachment of 3x5 rangers+2 psykers is better, or a coven of 3x5 wracks and 2 haemonculus to sit around in the back field.

I was looking at the following:

Battalion (Kabal of Obsidian Rose):
archon, blaster, phantasm grenade, agonizer 94
archon, blaster, phantasm grenade, agonizer 94
5 warriors, blaster 47
5 warriors, blaster 47
5 warriors, blaster 47
5 trueborn, 4 blaster 123
5 trueborn, 4 blaster 123
5 trueborn, 4 blaster 123

Battalion (Cult of Cursed Blade):
Succubus, glaive, tryptych whip 54
Succubus, glaive, blast pistol 60
5 wyches, shardnet/impaler 45
5 wyches, shardnet/impaler 45
5 wyches, shardnet/impaler 45

Spearhead (Kabal of Black Heart):
archon, venom blade, writ of the living muse 72
ravager, 3 disintegrators 125
ravager, 3 disintegrators 125
ravager, 3 disintegrators 125
razorwing jetfighter, dark lances, splinter cannons 155
5 raiders, disintegrators 400 (80 each)

comes to 1949 points. Thoughts? Constructive criticism? Any help appreciated.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

I'm not equipped to answer your blaster question in 8th edition, but I have some questions.

1. Why disintegrators instead of dark lances on those ravagers? How do you deal with mechanized and parking lot armies?

2. I see five raiders, which I assume are dedicated transports to some of those units. Which ones? You have nine units that need to get around in a jiffy, but only 5 transport options.

3. Are haywire grenades on wyches not a thing anymore?

   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





I should have listed who goes where--3 raiders have 5 warriors and 5 trueborn in them, 1 has 5 wyches, 2 archon, 2 succubus, the last has 2 units of 5 wyches. I have been playing around with another list with no wyches and more warriors. Disintegrator ravagers work well with writ of the living muse, i prefer 3 2-damage shots vs 1 d6-damage shot for vehicles but if I was going up against an all knight list the dark lances might be better. Blasters are to deal with vehicles after moving up the raiders.

I have read that succubus are better off running behind transports though, I don't really like the 1 raider being a better target but it could draw fire away from the trueborn.

Wyches get haywire grenades via a strategem now that overwrites their plasma grenade for 1 shooting attack as d3 mortals vs vehicles.
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader





Cleveland, Ohio

I'd be sort of concerned about anti-horde with this list. You'll handle elites fine, vehicles too. However you really don't have much with rate of fire, could have serious difficulty with green tide, gaunt swarms, chaos or catachan hordes, etc.
I'd start off by dropping a couple blasters to make room for a Scourge unit with Shredders, that would give a little anti-infantry boost without changing the core of the list. The Razorwing would be the next thing I'd drop if I we're going to try to fit more anti-infantry in. Some local metas don't really have any hordes though, so changes might not be needed if you never actually see hordes.

I don't think a Coven detachment would add anything unless you were taking big Grot units.

For Craftworld, with Blaster and Dissie spam Jinx and Doom aren't quite as needed as it is for lists that are taking higher volume firepower, but the psychic buffs are never a bad thing. Swooping Hawks would actually be a good addition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/21 14:47:39


Sometimes, you just gotta take something cause the model is freakin cool... 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Los Angeles

StrikerTommy wrote:
Trying to figure out if trueborn are worth using or not--the extra special weapons seem nice.
TruBlasters are worth it, but they need a venom, not a raider. The venom's foot print makes TruBlasters a great character snipe unit. Great range allowing the venom to hop over screens and park 1.1 inches away from Abbadon, Bellacaul (sp?) or daemon princes, etc.

StrikerTommy wrote:
5 trueborn with 4 blasters clock in at 123 points, while 10 warriors with 2 blasters would be 94 points. Is it worth sacrificing bodies for more blasters in the current meta? I tossed in a wych cult for free CP but I wonder if a small craftworld detachment of 3x5 rangers+2 psykers is better, or a coven of 3x5 wracks and 2 haemonculus to sit around in the back field.
I dunno about wracks or haems this edition. Go whole hog with the wyches & succubi for a battalion: 28 girls, their 2 leaders and 3 raiders. Regular eldar? Just a Doom-Seer, Warlock and 1 ranger for a Patrol detachment.


StrikerTommy wrote:
I was looking at the following:
Battalion (Kabal of Obsidian Rose):
Srsly, Not Kabal of the Black Heart? It's still the best, even with the Big FAQ nerf on Labrynthine Cunning's CP farm. And, trivially, that Agents of Vect, thing. I hear it's useful.

StrikerTommy wrote:

archon, blaster, phantasm grenade, agonizer 94
archon, blaster, phantasm grenade, agonizer 94
5 warriors, blaster 47
5 warriors, blaster 47
5 warriors, blaster 47
5 trueborn, 4 blaster 123
5 trueborn, 4 blaster 123
5 trueborn, 4 blaster 123
Remove the blaster from the kabalites, as you're not going to want that short range for your pittance troop-tax units.

For the 1 CP, get an extra Relic, the Helm of Spite, in case your opponent has psyckers. Otherwise, have the other archon carry Writ of the Living Muse for the token relic.

StrikerTommy wrote:
Battalion (Cult of Cursed Blade):
Succubus, glaive, tryptych whip 54
Succubus, glaive, blast pistol 60
5 wyches, shardnet/impaler 45
5 wyches, shardnet/impaler 45
5 wyches, shardnet/impaler 45
Make sure your drugs go as Suc +2" move, Suc +1T and then WS, S and Attacks for the girls. Generally, if you can buff the girls to 9 models, you'll do better. +2" succubus is good for charging through LOS blocking terrain to nix Overwatch if your raiders fail to charge.

StrikerTommy wrote:
Spearhead (Kabal of Black Heart):
archon, venom blade, writ of the living muse 72
ravager, 3 disintegrators 125
ravager, 3 disintegrators 125
ravager, 3 disintegrators 125
As DashoP started asking, DLs are better on the ravagers. I use DisCans on my 3 raiders.

StrikerTommy wrote:
razorwing jetfighter, dark lances, splinter cannons 155
5 raiders, disintegrators 400 (80 each)
Far too many boats. Remove 2, bring your girls to 9 models, with room for a succubus cheerleader. Put your minimal sized and no-upgrade kabs behind terrain and give them a change of undies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dashofpepper wrote:
2. I see five raiders, which I assume are dedicated transports to some of those units. Which ones? You have nine units that need to get around in a jiffy, but only 5 transport options.
3. Are haywire grenades on wyches not a thing anymore?
@DashoP

2. It's legal to put 2 units of 5 in the raider, or a unit and characters, as long as the numbers fit, and they all belong to the same book. No Harlies nor Aeldari in raiders, nor wyches in Wave Serpents. This is in the basic rules.

3. They are not. Girls no longer carry haywire grenades. Scourges wielding haywire blasters is the answer there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/23 04:22:26


"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.

"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013

Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





It's weird, I see a lot of competitive lists just rocking regular kabalites in transports. I own 6 raiders irl, got a big lot of DE stuff so I thought I would try to make something of it. Is black heart the best for the +1 to the PfP table? I still get Vect from the spearhead being on table. I also only see people running disintegrators on their ravagers. I'm stil not a huge fan of 1 d6 damage vs 3 2-damage shots maybe if I didn't have so many blasters I would use dark lances.
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader





Cleveland, Ohio

StrikerTommy wrote:
It's weird, I see a lot of competitive lists just rocking regular kabalites in transports. I own 6 raiders irl, got a big lot of DE stuff so I thought I would try to make something of it. Is black heart the best for the +1 to the PfP table? I still get Vect from the spearhead being on table. I also only see people running disintegrators on their ravagers. I'm stil not a huge fan of 1 d6 damage vs 3 2-damage shots maybe if I didn't have so many blasters I would use dark lances.


Black Heart also gives your Vehicles the 6+++ from the pfp table. So going black Heart not only gives you access to the strat and warlord trait, youre also getting a 16% survivability boost.

Disintegrators are just more versatile than lances, they work against just about everything. They'll probably be more expensive when CA is released in a month or two.

Sometimes, you just gotta take something cause the model is freakin cool... 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Los Angeles

When the RTTs run 20+ players, I see other DE lists, but they have eldar and harlies, little room for raiders full of kabs. And they must not be too competitive, 'cause those guys don't do well.

That said, I suck.

I have only won 2 RTTs in 6 years and never done better in a GT than 66%.
StrikerTommy wrote:
It's weird, I see a lot of competitive lists just rocking regular kabalites in transports. I own 6 raiders irl, got a big lot of DE stuff so I thought I would try to make something of it.
Now, 60 ish kabalites, in boats sounds like a plan. That will crank out 100+ shots, throw in archon reroll s, with Writ of the Living Muse rreroll wounds of , then you're likely to scrag anything not a vehicle. Many units at once, so ...

120 shots, within range to rapid fire, throwing all on one toss of disembarking all those kabbies, moving up your raiders & archons.
80 hit. Reroll s, another 5 hit.
85 hits wield 42 poison wounds, add 16% and half of the misses, and you're having enemy footers make 46 or so saves. Almost 2 full tacticals, 35 orks, and twenty or so 4+ Save wounds. That's Morty or Maggie dead.

If you throw in Doom, then the wound count goes higher.

Then your DLs hurt armor. My 3 ravagers bag 1.5 to 2 twelve wound vehicles per turn, with their 9 DLs, which I do buff with the archon and Writ of the Living Muse.


StrikerTommy wrote:
Is black heart the best for the +1 to the PfP table?

Yeah, which is not great, as it is wyches that really need the buff of rerolling a charge Round 1.

StrikerTommy wrote:
I still get Vect from the spearhead being on table.
Ah, missed that.

StrikerTommy wrote:
I also only see people running disintegrators on their ravagers. I'm stil not a huge fan of 1 d6 damage vs 3 2-damage shots maybe if I didn't have so many blasters I would use dark lances.
I favor DLs because the Southern Calif meta is Imp. Knight and A.M. mech heavy.

Model count-wise, how many kabs and wyches do you have?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Creeping Dementia wrote:
Black Heart also gives your Vehicles the 6+++ from the pfp table. So going black Heart not only gives you access to the strat and warlord trait, youre also getting a 16% survivability boost

Good point, forgot that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/24 01:34:30


"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.

"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013

Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Right now I have ~40 kabs and ~25 wyches but I can use the bodies that are supposed to hang off the side of raiders to makes some action pose infantry. Some of the kabs have splinter cannons and dark lances glued but I can try to remove them.
   
 
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