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If I surround, say a stormraven, with a bunch of my guard and I cause it to wreck and there's bunch of models inside like a dreadnought, two or three characters and a 5 man unit of marines is everyone vaporized ? Do you get to put out a unit, see if it fits, and then add another unit until they get too close to the guard or is it an all or nothing situation?

 necron99 wrote:
If I surround, say a stormraven, with a bunch of my guard and I cause it to wreck and there's bunch of models inside like a dreadnought, two or three characters and a 5 man unit of marines is everyone vaporized ? Do you get to put out a unit, see if it fits, and then add another unit until they get too close to the guard or is it an all or nothing situation?

You get to disembark any models you want, then the rest are slain. It's a model by model basis, it's not all or nothing.

e.g. Even if you had a single unit of 10, and only 9 can fit, only 1 model dies, not all 10.

Also you can deploy them behind the surrounders as long as you remain within 3 inches of the vehicle in question. Even your dreadnough can jump over the enemies and only has to touch the 3 inch range bubble surrounding a vehicle. This is because you deploy when disembarking, its not actually a move.

To trap the passengers usually require several ranks of assulters and is often impossible

Base of the model, or outline of the vehicle?

Do you have the assault a flyer's base, or can you assault anywhere that the model covers? And if you have the assault the model's base, can the units inside still deploy outside of the base?

The unit's datasheet will tell you if you measure from the model's hull. If not, you follow the core rules and measure to and from the base (if it has one).

Gitdakka wrote:
Also you can deploy them behind the surrounders as long as you remain within 3 inches of the vehicle in question. Even your dreadnough can jump over the enemies and only has to touch the 3 inch range bubble surrounding a vehicle. This is because you deploy when disembarking, its not actually a move.

To trap the passengers usually require several ranks of assulters and is often impossible

Can they do that and still be within an inch of the attackers, or most they also deploy more than one inch away?

 Ginjitzu wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
Also you can deploy them behind the surrounders as long as you remain within 3 inches of the vehicle in question. Even your dreadnough can jump over the enemies and only has to touch the 3 inch range bubble surrounding a vehicle. This is because you deploy when disembarking, its not actually a move.

To trap the passengers usually require several ranks of assulters and is often impossible

Can they do that and still be within an inch of the attackers, or most they also deploy more than one inch away?

25" base is about inch. Put in 1" away and that's within 2" of vehicle(remember you don't need to be fully within 3"). If enemy isn't in b2b contact even 32mm base isn't enough.

If he's 1" from vehicle then yeah not possible. 1" from hull, 1" base, more than 1" from enemy=more than 3".

tneva82 wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
Also you can deploy them behind the surrounders as long as you remain within 3 inches of the vehicle in question. Even your dreadnough can jump over the enemies and only has to touch the 3 inch range bubble surrounding a vehicle. This is because you deploy when disembarking, its not actually a move.

To trap the passengers usually require several ranks of assulters and is often impossible

Can they do that and still be within an inch of the attackers, or most they also deploy more than one inch away?

25" base is about inch. Put in 1" away and that's within 2" of vehicle(remember you don't need to be fully within 3"). If enemy isn't in b2b contact even 32mm base isn't enough.

If he's 1" from vehicle then yeah not possible. 1" from hull, 1" base, more than 1" from enemy=more than 3".

That's only if it's a perfect circle, bases don't work that way, as they dip inwards. In only take the slightest sliver of area that's within 3" to deploy something. You might not be able to get the whole squad out, but a Dreadnought is really hard to block without there also being terrain etc in the way.

 Stux wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
Also you can deploy them behind the surrounders as long as you remain within 3 inches of the vehicle in question. Even your dreadnough can jump over the enemies and only has to touch the 3 inch range bubble surrounding a vehicle. This is because you deploy when disembarking, its not actually a move.

To trap the passengers usually require several ranks of assulters and is often impossible

Can they do that and still be within an inch of the attackers, or most they also deploy more than one inch away?

25" base is about inch. Put in 1" away and that's within 2" of vehicle(remember you don't need to be fully within 3". If enemy isn't in b2b contact even 32mm base isn't enough.

If he's 1" from vehicle then yeah not possible. 1" from hull, 1" base, more than 1" from enemy=more than 3".

That's only if it's a perfect circle, bases don't work that way, as they dip inwards. In only take the slightest sliver of area that's within 3" to deploy something. You might not be able to get the whole squad out, but a Dreadnought is really hard to block without there also being terrain etc in the way.

Also 25mm bases are less than an inch. So if a model on such a base is within an inch then there will be room on the other side for the model that is further than an inch from the 25mm base yet within three inches of the vehicle. 1 inch gap + less than 1 inch base + 1 inch gap < 3 inches.

 Uther wrote:

 Stux wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
Also you can deploy them behind the surrounders as long as you remain within 3 inches of the vehicle in question. Even your dreadnough can jump over the enemies and only has to touch the 3 inch range bubble surrounding a vehicle. This is because you deploy when disembarking, its not actually a move.

To trap the passengers usually require several ranks of assulters and is often impossible

Can they do that and still be within an inch of the attackers, or most they also deploy more than one inch away?

25" base is about inch. Put in 1" away and that's within 2" of vehicle(remember you don't need to be fully within 3". If enemy isn't in b2b contact even 32mm base isn't enough.

If he's 1" from vehicle then yeah not possible. 1" from hull, 1" base, more than 1" from enemy=more than 3".

That's only if it's a perfect circle, bases don't work that way, as they dip inwards. In only take the slightest sliver of area that's within 3" to deploy something. You might not be able to get the whole squad out, but a Dreadnought is really hard to block without there also being terrain etc in the way.

Also 25mm bases are less than an inch. So if a model on such a base is within an inch then there will be room on the other side for the model that is further than an inch from the 25mm base yet within three inches of the vehicle. 1 inch gap + less than 1 inch base + 1 inch gap < 3 inches.

Indeed. About 1.5" away is the sweet spot, but it's still hard to accomplish - especially on a Storm Raven or similarly large transport.

Except apparently if you "play by the rules", if you completely surround a transport that you measure from the hull with a model you measure from the hull, the embarked units will always wipe as they start off more than 1" off the ground.

 skchsan wrote:
Except apparently if you "play by the rules", if you completely surround a transport that you measure from the hull with a model you measure from the hull, the embarked units will always wipe as they start off more than 1" off the ground.

What? No there is no "start off". There is no path to follow when disembarking, it's an instant deploy, like if they had teleported out of the vehicle...

Gitdakka wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Except apparently if you "play by the rules", if you completely surround a transport that you measure from the hull with a model you measure from the hull, the embarked units will always wipe as they start off more than 1" off the ground.

What? No there is no "start off". There is no path to follow when disembarking, it's an instant deploy, like if they had teleported out of the vehicle...

Yeah, skchsan has it totally wrong (and in my opinion is a little condescending). Yes, you measure from the hull to the edge of the base when determining where you may disembark, but nothing prevents you from measuring diagonally after you're given permission to measure.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Except apparently if you "play by the rules", if you completely surround a transport that you measure from the hull with a model you measure from the hull, the embarked units will always wipe as they start off more than 1" off the ground.

What? No there is no "start off". There is no path to follow when disembarking, it's an instant deploy, like if they had teleported out of the vehicle...

Yeah, skchsan has it totally wrong (and in my opinion is a little condescending). Yes, you measure from the hull to the edge of the base when determining where you may disembark, but nothing prevents you from measuring diagonally after you're given permission to measure.

i don't see what's condescending about my post.

To start, 3" is approximately 76 mm.
Imagine a Raider built with shorter flying stem (30 mm). We'll assume we're measuring from the point where the flying stem meets the "hull" of the vehicle (henceforth "Tip") as Raider ever so slightly tapers upwards at the bottom (I think), so the closest point from the ground is the said point where the flying stem meets the model.
Math shows us that the closest point on ground from the Tip is about 70mm away from the center of the flying stem. (sqrt(76mm^2-30mm^2)=69.82 mm).
Since the large flying base is 60mm, the allowed disembarking range from the raider is now at between 30mm to 70mm from the base of the Tip, as core rules tell you you cannot place a unit on top of another model, despite being able to measure range from the hull.

Now, let us assume that we have an imaginary unit that you measure from the hull, that is on a base @ 25 mm wide. Now, since you are considered to be in fighting range if you are WITHIN 1" or 25.4mm, (base-to-base no longer requirement of fighting), we will surround the said raider with our imaginary unit @ 25mm away from the raider.

Taking all this into account, you have 70mm from the center of the flying base of the raider, less 30mm from the large flying base raider is on, less 25mm from the raider, and less 25mm base yields us coverage from the base of the Tip approximately 80mm in all directions, or 85.44mm from the Tip itself.

So, if you are able to surround a Raider with models that you measure from the hull (since you can't charge a Raider unless you charge with models that you measure from the hull), you can effectively cover the entirety of the zone that you can disembark onto.

TLDR, FLYING Transports thatt you measure from the hull effectively has less range which you can disembark onto, and under certain circumstances, one full circle around the said transport is sufficient for denying emergency disembarkation.

The small GW round bases are 25mm, not 28mm.

 skchsan wrote:
To start, 3" is approximately 76 mm.
Imagine a Raider built with shorter flying stem (30 mm). We'll assume we're measuring from the point where the flying stem meets the "hull" of the vehicle (henceforth "Tip") as Raider ever so slightly tapers upwards at the bottom (I think), so the closest point from the ground is the said point where the flying stem meets the model.
Math shows us that the closest point on ground from the Tip is about 70mm away from the center of the flying stem. (sqrt(76mm^2-30mm^2)=69.82 mm).
Since the large flying base is 60mm, the allowed disembarking range from the raider is now at between 30mm to 70mm from the base of the Tip, as core rules tell you you cannot place a unit on top of another model, despite being able to measure range from the hull.

Now, let us assume that we have an imaginary unit that you measure from the hull, that is on a base @ 25 mm wide. Now, since you are considered to be in fighting range if you are WITHIN 1" or 25.4mm, (base-to-base no longer requirement of fighting), we will surround the said raider with our imaginary unit @ 25mm away from the raider.

Taking all this into account, you have 70mm from the center of the flying base of the raider, less 30mm from the large flying base raider is on, less 25mm from the raider, and less 25mm base yields us coverage from the base of the Tip approximately 80mm in all directions, or 85.44mm from the Tip itself.

So, if you are able to surround a Raider with models that you measure from the hull (since you can't charge a Raider unless you charge with models that you measure from the hull), you can effectively cover the entirety of the zone that you can disembark onto.

TLDR, FLYING Transports thatt you measure from the hull effectively has less range which you can disembark onto, and under certain circumstances, one full circle around the said transport is sufficient for denying emergency disembarkation.

Flying stand gets the thing about 1.2" worth of clearance. That's square root(3*3-1.2*1.2)=2,75" worth of disembarkation from any point on the hull. Around the center the base is still wide enough that you can disembark 3".