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In a classic thread for dakka dakka, who do you think is the most dangerous foe Imotekh the Stormlord, the nigh undefeated and greatest of all Necron Lord or the nigh undefeated and greatest of all Chapter Master Marneus Calgar. Both have an impressive tally of victory and defeated enemy champions in duel. To make it simple, which one do you think is better in the following category.

1) Strategy: provided they are granted comparable forces who is most likely to gain an edge on a battlemap?

2) Tactics: provided they are granted comparable forces and no clear strategical advantages which one would command its forces the most efficently on a battlefield?

3) Duel: both are fighting one another in single combat, who is most likely to win?

4) Statesmanship: who is the better administrator and ruler; which domain is the most prosperous?

In my opinion, Imotekh wins in the first category. He has more experience and he is basically a super-super computer. In a strategical game, he would probably pull ahead of Calgar. In the second category, it's rather close, but I would give the edge to Calgar. He is more quick witted and a little bit less overconfident. This makes him more flexible. In duel, while I would say that Calgar is probably more dangerous, against one another, I think the Stormlord would win. He is much more endurant, stronger, taller, a duel specialist and has lighter, but very powerful weapons. It would be a very long fight, but in the end, I think he would triumph. In terms of Statesmanship, I think both are fairly comparable, but Calgar is probably slightly better thanks to his great work in rebuilding his Chapter and realm following the invasion of behemoth hive fleet. What do you think?

1) As far as strategy, it seems to me that Imotekh probably has the edge here over Calgar, given his recent campaigns show how fast his empire is growing at an alarming rate. To be fair, Calgar is basically more focused on maintaining the territory he has, but has less equivalent feats that match Imotekh's.

2) Calgar seems to lead from the front, in contrast to Imotekh, so that might give him an edge given the boost to morale and how it gives him a more direct hand in the flow of battle versus Imotekh.

3) Duel-wise, Calgar is going to best him, since Imotekh isn't particularly well-known for fighting, beating Helbrecht more from resiliency than skill, who later came back for round 2 and beat him, so Calgar should have a good chance of defeating him in single combat.

4) Calgar's done a pretty good job while ol Guilly's been gone, its hard to say since we don't hear too much from Imotekh's side besides his domain expanding very quickly, but given that Imotekh took control and continues to maintain it despite there being undoubtedly usurpers waiting in the wings, I would argue Imotekh has this as well.

As someone who knows a lot more about Imotekh than Calgar...

1) Given that strategy is basically Imotekh's entire thing I think you have to give this one to him.

2) The Stormlord's overconfidence hurts him here for the same reason he sucks at fighting orks; he is so sure of his master plan that he doesn't know what to do when things don't go according to plan. Defaults to Calgar since he can handle chaos better.

3) Hand-to-hand combat is actually another noted weakness of Imotekh; not that he isn't particularly good at it, but that he's so arrogant that simply winning the fight isn't enough for him, he has to humiliate his opponent. Against a roughly equal warrior like Calgar he'll find that more difficult and make some errors.

4) Imotekh awoke with his phaeron dead, his dynasty in ruins, and his former followers scrabbling with each other over the scraps. In short time he crowned himself phaeron, consolidated his power ensuring the absolute loyalty of all those who survived the civil war, and returned the Sautekh to its former glory as the most powerful of the Necron dynasties. I don't think there are many people in the 40k universe that can claim a greater success story.

Calgar got taken out by tyranids back On Ichar IV. He ain’t all that. He magically survived but he was killed. I read the battle report. Deaded.

Calgar also (as of his Primarch's return) recognizes that he is in fact in decline and is rather bitter about it.

He can't even keep the peace on Macragge anymore, and finds himself in the odd position of a slightly ineffective administrator who will likely never get a chance to match his past glories.

Strategy - Imotekh takes this one.

Tactics - Calgar. More versatile, and his main losses he's bounced back from with new tactics and versatility.

One on one duel - Calgar. Given that Imotekh's most equal melee fighter, Helbretch of the Black Templars, is probably a worse fighter than Calgar (not by much, but Calgar has relic terminator armour and weapons wielded by his Primarch, which Helbretch has neither), I'd say Calgar would win out.

Statesmanship - Difficult. How are we defining statesmanship? If we're defining it by who's realm is larger and was made faster, Imotekh. If we're talking about how those worlds are governed and the peace is kept, civil liberties, etc etc, I'd say Calgar, seeing as Imotekh is a warlord first and foremost. Calgar, like a lot of Ultramarines in particular, is both statesman and warrior.

In an ideal world, I'd leave Calgar governing the world as the political figure, and Imotekh to expand the borders.

I would have said Calgar, but ever since the return of Guilliman Calgar seems to have lost most, if not all of his plot armour. That would make him very vulnerable in a fight with Imotekh.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I would have said Calgar, but ever since the return of Guilliman Calgar seems to have lost most, if not all of his plot armour. That would make him very vulnerable in a fight with Imotekh.

He also got hurt pretty bad during Gathering Storm. I'm sure they spared no expense putting back together, but that kind of damage (again) has to have left him a step or two slower than before.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I would have said Calgar, but ever since the return of Guilliman Calgar seems to have lost most, if not all of his plot armour. That would make him very vulnerable in a fight with Imotekh.

I'm half expecting to see him die and get replaced with a Primaris Chapter Master during the next campaign book featuring the Ultramarines. Maybe Decimus Felix? He's a Tetrarch, Captain of the Ultramarines' 11th Company and Equerry to Guilliman. He's well placed to take over. He's clearly being groomed. The real question is whether Chapter Master outranks Tetrarch.

Gotta get rid of those Finecast models. A plastic Primaris Captain/Chapter Master kit with multiple weapon options that ALSO makes a named Chapter Master would be great.

Gulliman already headed that one off when he made Calgar a Tetriarch as well and basicly said "he's the head Tetriach"

In the Horus Heresy era Uktramarine Legion it seems Tetrarchs were higher up on the totem pole than Chapter Masters.

 agurus1 wrote:
In the Horus Heresy era Uktramarine Legion it seems Tetrarchs were higher up on the totem pole than Chapter Masters.

Maybe but on the other hand, things where structured a little differantly in that era. In the HH the Ultramarines where a singular large orginization that controled a 500 world demi-empire within the IoM now each chapter is independant, I imagine Tetriarchs do cordinate Marine chapters operating within their territory but it's proably, at least on paper, volentary