Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi there,

Long time lurker looking for input on a combination of using a demolition charge with the Mordian stratagem allowing to shoot again on 6’s.

Basically the stratagem allows you to shoot again with the same weapon but the demolition charge is one use only, does the shoot again take precedence or does the one use only?

I am leaning towards the latter but would love to hear some input.

Spinnerthing wrote:
Hi there,

Long time lurker looking for input on a combination of using a demolition charge with the Mordian stratagem allowing to shoot again on 6’s.

Basically the stratagem allows you to shoot again with the same weapon but the demolition charge is one use only, does the shoot again take precedence or does the one use only?

I am leaning towards the latter but would love to hear some input.

My own personal view would be that you must attempt to satisfy all rules for an action to be legal (an AND gate) not just satisfy some of the rules (an OR gate).

Since the Demolition charge may only be fired once per battle, a rule allowing you to "fire again" with it is effectively pointless. It would have to specifically allow you to fire one use weapons again in order to allow you to do so.

That being said, it could be worded better and we have no concrete rule for what to do when two rules are contradictory and mutually exclusive, so ymmv.

I would agree with BCB, you have used the weapon once already.

You have the option to fire your demo charge again
You have no ammunition
So no second shot.

However a use once weapon with multiple ammos could fire twice.

U02dah4 wrote:
You have the option to fire your demo charge again
You have no ammunition
So no second shot.

However a use once weapon with multiple ammos could fire twice.

I don't have my books to hand but are there even any weapons that can only fire twice? Afaik they are all formatted as single use weapons, and then the model is given multiples of them.

For example, a Skyray has six Seeker Missiles, each of which can be fired once. Or a Manticore has four Single Use Storm Eagle Rockets, not a single Storm Eagle Rocket with 4 uses.

It’s one use only so you can’t use it twice.

Thanks for the input, I am in agreement with what has been said!

Shame though exploding shots in conjunction with grenadier would have been nasty.

Spinnerthing wrote:
Thanks for the input, I am in agreement with what has been said!

Shame though exploding shots in conjunction with grenadier would have been nasty.

Away from books so running on memory, but can you not combine the Grenade stratagem with Volley Fire for a potential 10D6+60D6 Frag grenade shots? Since it lets you "shoot again" each 6 will grant a bonus D6. Granted, you probably have more chance of a proton decaying which then nudges a particular plastic molecule in such a way that you win every powerball for the next 6 years, but there is still a chance!

 BaconCatBug wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
You have the option to fire your demo charge again
You have no ammunition
So no second shot.

However a use once weapon with multiple ammos could fire twice.

I don't have my books to hand but are there even any weapons that can only fire twice? Afaik they are all formatted as single use weapons, and then the model is given multiples of them.

For example, a Skyray has six Seeker Missiles, each of which can be fired once. Or a Manticore has four Single Use Storm Eagle Rockets, not a single Storm Eagle Rocket with 4 uses.

It was the manticore i was thinking of you fire the profile but once per turn the mordian gives you the chance to fire the profile again which you could not normally do - would consume 2nd missile

U02dah4 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
You have the option to fire your demo charge again
You have no ammunition
So no second shot.

However a use once weapon with multiple ammos could fire twice.

I don't have my books to hand but are there even any weapons that can only fire twice? Afaik they are all formatted as single use weapons, and then the model is given multiples of them.

For example, a Skyray has six Seeker Missiles, each of which can be fired once. Or a Manticore has four Single Use Storm Eagle Rockets, not a single Storm Eagle Rocket with 4 uses.

It was the manticore i was thinking of you fire the profile but once per turn the mordian gives you the chance to fire the profile again which you could not normally do - would consume 2nd missile

Even if Volley Fire worked on vehicles (which it doesn't) it doesn't override the Storm Eagles rule of "A model can only fire a single storm eagle rocket per turn."

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Spinnerthing wrote:
Thanks for the input, I am in agreement with what has been said!

Shame though exploding shots in conjunction with grenadier would have been nasty.

Away from books so running on memory, but can you not combine the Grenade stratagem with Volley Fire for a potential 10D6+60D6 Frag grenade shots? Since it lets you "shoot again" each 6 will grant a bonus D6. Granted, you probably have more chance of a proton decaying which then nudges a particular plastic molecule in such a way that you win every powerball for the next 6 years, but there is still a chance!

No because you do it on a unit of 20 conscripts for 20d6

I mean it works but if you role 206's for shot numbers and then all 120 hit on 6's for 120 bonus d6's I'm questioning your dice.

So 20d6×3.5/6 11.66d6 40.83 extra shots for 111shots expectancy
Of course the same unit FRFSRF in RF =80shots and in say cadia more hit

Its nice butnot worth playing mordian for

U02dah4 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Spinnerthing wrote:
Thanks for the input, I am in agreement with what has been said!

Shame though exploding shots in conjunction with grenadier would have been nasty.

Away from books so running on memory, but can you not combine the Grenade stratagem with Volley Fire for a potential 10D6+60D6 Frag grenade shots? Since it lets you "shoot again" each 6 will grant a bonus D6. Granted, you probably have more chance of a proton decaying which then nudges a particular plastic molecule in such a way that you win every powerball for the next 6 years, but there is still a chance!

No because you do it on a unit of 20 conscripts for 20d6

I mean it works but if you role 206's for shot numbers and then all 120 hit on 6's for 120 bonus d6's I'm questioning your dice.

So 20d6×3.5/6 11.66d6 40.83 extra shots for 111shots expectancy
Of course the same unit FRFSRF in RF =80shots and in say cadia more hit

Its nice butnot worth playing mordian for

The Grenadiers stratagem only allows "up to ten models" to use a Grenade.

My army is the old Praetorians, so for fluff reasons I started running them as Mordians, I spent some time trying to maximise the utility of their volley fire stratagem, it can be devastating!

I run with plasma and heavy bolters, consolidating squads every turn, and making use of the sabre searchlights giving them a +1 to hit, meaning their shots explode on a 5 or 6 instead with Volley Fire.

By turn 2 that's 3 squads in one, factoring in some casualties 20 lasguns using FRFSRF hits these explode to a total of almost 200 shots hitting on 3+ because of the searchlight.

I run a praetor defensor for the 5++ save bubble, and then that gets buffed hopefully to 3++ with take cover and psyker buffs, adding in a -1 to hit too. Can be a pain to charge too as the overwatch hits on 5+ instead.

It's not tournament winning but it is fun!