CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.

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**geargutz**

now that codex orks has finally come out, and the old tactics thread that revolved around the index is now over a year old https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/727761.page
i have decided to start the discussion anew!
rejoice

and WAAAAAAGHHHH!!!!!

now my own participation is spotty on dakkadakka. ill admit it. but while im active ill go ahead and get the thread started.
unlike jidmah i dont have the dedication to have a unit analysis. but anyone who posts after me can do so. if someone makes a better formatted thread then thats fine. im mainly making this as a place holder till a better one is started (but if we keep this one thats fine too).

but hey, lets not keep us from discovering new ways to krump,smash,bash,stomp,blast and zzap our many enemies in the meta,

and remember,try to be kind and to always...
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!

edit-
Since i much prefer all our cool vehicles to run in my lists i have usually tried to bring as many as i can in any game. This is a comprehensive list on how to run these as best as we can for our codex (just my thoughts, i imagine some of these tactics would be obvious). Note. this is is not to see what vehicles are the best to take in games, but rather a list to make the most out of any vehicle we might bring in a list. Why am i not doing normal infantry? simply is that they have the widest access to the stratagems and thus harder to narrow down what to use for them but also i have much more experience with our vehicles. Note, if you don't see a strat not listed on a vehicle though it can be used by that vehicle then its one ive deemed not worthwhile to use (at least it takes too many cp just to use for that particular vehicle and it might've best be used elsewhere).

Spoiler:

for any one with a list of they would like added to this post under a spoiler tag then feel free to private message me. ill review it and then post it on here.

**leopard**

Wondering on grenades, we have the "one in ten may carry a tankbusta bomb" thing, usually only one model can lob a grenade - but the "morr stickbombs" thing allows up to ten.

guessing a mob of 30 boys that would mean three tankbusta and seven normal?

still sounds moderately dangerous but does mean marking who has them, and just a nasty suprise

**geargutz**

leopard wrote:

still sounds moderately dangerous but does mean marking who has them, and just a nasty suprise

does sound good, but a few issues/suggestions.
grenades are very short range. more efficient to throw from inside a transport that rush to the enemy.

but if you want to do a squad of 30...
run the big blob of boyz as bloodaxe. use dead sneeky to get them close to the enemy.
charge, then fsll back, throw grenade strat and then charge again with blood axe trait.

this seems the most likely way to use "extra stickbombs" if you want to do it for a large 30man blob.

**tneva82**

Evil sun for reliable charge. Not much that can survive 2 rounds vs 30 charging boyz so fall back thing not neccessary. And if you really want that have warlord nearby

**leopard**

Ironically enough all my boyz are indeed blud axes and did wonder on the fall back strat, however its fall back then shoot or charge so can't drop back, grenade then pile back in.

there is however nothing to stop a mob of 30 being kunning, charging in fighting and the survivors pulling back, chucking grenades and then another unit piling forwards to whats hopefully now not a very large enemy unit.

it comes over as an ability thats not game breaking, just nice when you can get it as most squads anti tank grenades are one per squad, as I read it we can give one in ten boyz the tank busta bomb, nothing says onely one model in ten of a units current size can use it so when the mob is down to four models it can be three with bombz and a nob...

**BaconCatBug**

Boyz are finished IMHO. You're going to want to take CP Battery Big Mek+Grot Battalions and then other good stuff.

**leopard**

Not sure boyz are finished, despite GWs efforts, but they are going to need a CP battery to manage anything and its going to be an even more fragile army as a result, but likely a much more mobile one, I suspect we still have a good mix of T1 charges then plenty of ways to get boyz in on T2 as a follow up.

can see the Ork version of the "loyal 32" featuring a fair bit, indeed scope for doing it twice then a third formation of "the rest"

**Jidmah**

geargutz wrote:
now my own participation is spotty on dakkadakka. ill admit it. but while im active ill go ahead and get the thread started.
unlike jidmah i dont have the dedication to have a unit analysis. but anyone who posts after me can do so. if someone makes a better formatted thread then thats fine. im mainly making this as a place holder till a better one is started (but if we keep this one thats fine too).

No offense, but the whole point of starting the thread is keeping the first post up to date. People are going to be reading the first post to find out what's going on with orks, so if you start the thread, it's your job to make sure people find what they are a looking for. I didn't write the unit analysis either (I think I gave proper credit in the thread) you can just ask the people to do it for you.

Don't worry, I would happily have someone else take care the tactics thread, as long as it's properly done.

On topic, my analysis after my first read-through of the codex:

Datasheets:
- Warboss gained two(!) sluggas and must take a kombi-shoota in addition. Gukk is the basic warboss model now.
- SAG d6 damage (up from d3) and mortal wounds in addition to normal damage, rather than instead
- Snikrot T5 now, up from 4
- Badrukk's weapon now causes d3 wounds to him when overheating instead of 1 (missing from table in the back, so maybe a typo?)
- Zagstrukk can now make 3 attacks with his legs (up from 2) and gained "Blitz Missiles": 18" Assault 1 S6 Ap-1 D1d3
- Boss Nobz in boyz mobs have same options as nobz in nobz mobs (killsaws, powa stabbas).
- No more killsaw for pain boyz
- 'urty syringe grants an additional attack, but wounds on 4+ now (6+ for vehicle/titanic), was
- Minimek is now stuck with kustom mega slugga with no weapon options
- Runtherd lost its stikkbombs again
- You must field one unit of gretchin for every runtherd you field, but runtherds no longer need elite slots
- Waaagh! Banner nob gained a choppa
- No more options for kommandoz but a tankbusta bomb per 5 models, only nob that can't have nob weapons (stuck with PK)
- Warbiker boss nobz and nob bikers have full access to all nob gear except kombi-weapons
- Stormboyz boss nob has full access to nob gear including kombi-weapons
- Koptas lost KMB option and gained a free slugga
- Mek guns are now WS5+ S2 A6 from WS6+ S3 A1 (meh?), gretchin must be within 1" of the gun but they and the gun count as one model, similar to Azrael's helmet carrier. For casual games, just don't put gretchin on the table.
- Killkannon is S8 now, up from S7
- New wagon upgrades: Lobba can be taken in addition to other turret weapons, stikkbomb chukka (12" assault stikkbomb if passengers are inside), killkannon and kannon/zzap gun now exclude each other (could have both previously)
- Neither killkannon nor 'ard case reduce transport capacity
- All transports can transport FLASHGITS or <CLAN> models (so no freeboota boyz unless the BW is freeboota as well)
- No deff rolla for gunwagon, all other options available
- Bonebreaka has no limitation on options
- All four arms of the deff dread can be switched for skorchas, kmb, rokkit or dreadsaw. So you can have a dread with four skorchas or KMB
- You cannot trade for big shootas for dread klaws. Therefore you can only have maximum of two dread klaws plus up to two dread saws if you want to go all combat weapons
- Wrecking Ball now +2S AP-1 D2 (up from +1S AP-1 D1)
- Ramshackle for Trukks unchanged
- Max dice rolled for Blitza Bommer's Boom Bomb is 12(up from 10), no change to burna bommer
- Tellyporta Mega-Blasta up to D1d3 (from D1), still teleports stuff into the ground
- Super-Heavy Aux is excluded from detachment benefits, but regular aux detachment (-1 CP) is not
- Exceptions only for FLASHGITS, not for freebootas in general
- A weirdboyz casting fists of gork on himself has 5 S9 AP-1 D1d3 attacks, you'll never lack a target for this

Stratagems:
- Heal ork character within 3" of a pain boy for d3 wounds (1 CP)
- Ramming speed causes d3 mortal wounds on 2+
- Grot screen can only protect infantry
- Deff skulls stratagem allows re-roll to wound against vehicles and can be used in any phase

Relics:
- 'Eadwhompas killchoppa still does mortal wounds instead of regular damage (was leaked as MW and damage)
- Gitstoppa Shells only affect shoota profiles, and all of them are S4 AP0, which become S5 AP-1. Skorcha and rokkit explicitly not affected
- Da Lukky Stikk can go on a goff wartrike to make it a scary fighter
- Red armour triggers mortal wounds for models with 1" at the beginning of your movement phase, making it all but useless
- Bad Moons character can have the blunderbuss replace the shoota have of a kombi-skorcha, giving him 3d6 S5 AP-1 auto-hits
- Freebootas banner is used at the beginning of your moral phase, so you can't accidentally waste it

Warlord traits:
- First generic trait also gives the warlord the breakin' heads ability in addition to Waaagh!, very useful for a wartrike. Warbosses that get this trait get +3" on both their Waaagh! and breakin' heads. Last, but not least, one free CP, no matter who you made the boss.
- Kunnin but brutal moves d3 ork units of any type (one of the rumors said infantry only)
- Snakebite warlord trait makes kanz fearless

**Kebabcito**

Went to my local store, I see Boyz very cheese, jeez you can destroy the whole army with 60 boyz deepstrike or just fail.

I think Orks are in a good place now, but I think they are not enough solid to face top armies

**koooaei**

What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?

**BaconCatBug**

koooaei wrote:
What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?

Spending 3CP (which for Orks is 120points) to generate 112-203 points worth of Boyz isn't a very efficient use of CP. I can see the use to teleport them late on in the battle, but still rather niche.

The problem with the fight again stratagem is that by the time you get to use it, the Boyz will have been decimated to the point of it not being worth the CP cost.

**TedNugent**

That warlord trait to add 3" to an advance could make a world of difference on a green tide. Combining that with evil sunz would give them a very considerable reach.

**BaconCatBug**

My favourite part is getting 1+ save Meganobs with the Loot It stratagem, 2+ Bodyguards with Grot Shields and 6+++ from a Painboy/Snakebites. Clearly we have entered the age of the Final Meta.

**Emicrania**

Unit analysis requested !

**Jidmah**

BaconCatBug wrote:
koooaei wrote:
What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?
Spending 3CP (which for Orks is 120points) to generate 112-203 points worth of Boyz isn't a very efficient use of CP. I can see the use to teleport them late on in the battle, but still rather niche.

The problem with the fight again stratagem is that by the time you get to use it, the Boyz will have been decimated to the point of it not being worth the CP cost.

Every ork infantry unit can fight twice.

**pismakron**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Boyz are finished IMHO. You're going to want to take CP Battery Big Mek+Grot Battalions and then other good stuff.

There are tons of ways to still use boyz. Especially because many of the buff-stratagems are best used on very big units.

1) Take 4-10 minimum squads of Death skulls boyz with a Rokkit Launcha. They have objective secured, they can deal with hordes and screens, they give you CP's, and with their rokkits and tankbusta-bombs they can threaten even heavy stuff, because each unit can reroll the hit, wound and damage die. You can give them an inexpensive trukk to ride in, which in of itself is a very useful tool.

2) Another use is to Jump in 30-40 Evil Sunz boyz on Turn 1. With their plus 1 and buffed charge reroll, they are pretty likely to get into combat. That has to be one of the best T1 bombs in the game right now.

3) Combine the above with the fight twice stratagem and you can easily tie up a gunline on turn 1. You Jump in, charge, pile in and fight his screen. The you consolidate, use the stratagem and pile in to whatever he was screening. You would be surprised by how many players forgets to keep 7" minimum distance between screen and gunline. Sometimes it is not even possible in a crowded 12" deployment zone.

4) Another idea is to jump in 30-40 Bad Moon shoota-boyz into cover and shoot twice with them. They will do some damage, command a LOT of attention, and on T2 they will engage something with certainty. It is very much like that Tyranid troll strategy, with the six-shot per model deep striking Termagents. The boyz will do less damage on the turn they arrive, but they will also be slightly less exensive, far harder to remove, and their CC-threat will be much greater.

5) Another idea is to put 30 Goffs in the tellyporta, 30 Death Skullz in reserve, and then deploy them T2 with some kommandos and Storm boyz. That way you can deploy your tough multiwound units on the board, and deprive your opponents anti-horde weapons something to shoot at, even though you are in fact bringing a balanced army. Which leads us to...

6) Many of the above strategies combines well with an army not made entirely out of boyz. This contrasts nicely with the index, where boyz were very good, but only combined well with even more boyz.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
koooaei wrote:
What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?
Spending 3CP (which for Orks is 120points) to generate 112-203 points worth of Boyz isn't a very efficient use of CP. I can see the use to teleport them late on in the battle, but still rather niche.

The problem with the fight again stratagem is that by the time you get to use it, the Boyz will have been decimated to the point of it not being worth the CP cost.

Every ork infantry unit can fight twice.

Yes, but the bigger the unit, the more you can engage when consolidating. But I agree with what you are saying: The biggest knock on boyz is that Nobz can do a lot of the things boyz can do, and in some cases do it better.

**Shrapnelbait**

pismakron wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Boyz are finished IMHO. You're going to want to take CP Battery Big Mek+Grot Battalions and then other good stuff.

5) Another idea is to put 30 Goffs in the tellyporta, 30 Death Skullz in reserve, and then deploy them T2 with some kommandos and Storm boyz. That way you can deploy your tough multiwound units on the board, and deprive your opponents anti-horde weapons something to shoot at, even though you are in fact bringing a balanced army. Which leads us to...

How do you get the 30 Death skullz in reserve if you've already used the tellyporta?

**BaconCatBug**

Jidmah wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
koooaei wrote:
What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?
Spending 3CP (which for Orks is 120points) to generate 112-203 points worth of Boyz isn't a very efficient use of CP. I can see the use to teleport them late on in the battle, but still rather niche.

The problem with the fight again stratagem is that by the time you get to use it, the Boyz will have been decimated to the point of it not being worth the CP cost.

Every ork infantry unit can fight twice.

Yeah, but what unit is going to have enough bodies/attacks by the time it gets into combat to make the 3CP worth spending? Maybe Stormboyz, but they are just more expensive Boyz. Nobz won't survive unless you Battlewagon them and by that point you've automatically lost the efficiently fight.

My point still stands that using the Fight Again stratagem on Boyz is a waste.

**Rismonite**

In matched play, are we allowed to use the Tellyporta Stratagem more then once?

**Jidmah**

pismakron wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
koooaei wrote:
What about Endless greentide and fight twice strategems?
Spending 3CP (which for Orks is 120points) to generate 112-203 points worth of Boyz isn't a very efficient use of CP. I can see the use to teleport them late on in the battle, but still rather niche.

The problem with the fight again stratagem is that by the time you get to use it, the Boyz will have been decimated to the point of it not being worth the CP cost.

Every ork infantry unit can fight twice.

Yes, but the bigger the unit, the more you can engage when consolidating. But I agree with what you are saying: The biggest knock on boyz is that Nobz can do a lot of the things boyz can do, and in some cases do it better.

Something to not forget is that warbosses (and other characters, like thrakka) are infantry, too. A warboss with the relic klaw and the +1 damage trait can fight, fight again, then die and fight another time. Don't forget to name him Warboss Slams-gits-for-us

**pismakron**

Shrapnelbait wrote:

How do you get the 30 Death skullz in reserve if you've already used the tellyporta?

My mistake. You can put a mob of Boyz into the tellyporter and the other mob has to be blood axes, with their dead sneaky stratagem. That way you can have a combined army without getting destroyed in your first turn

This is what I like the best about the codex, the apparent ability to combine Boyz with something else than more Boyz, grots and characters.

Edit: Mixed up two clans. Srz

**buddha**

Orks seem like they have the tools to be perfect for the meta. Horde, cheap, but lots of deadly tools. Tankbusters in truks (also great for drive by grenades), bonebreaker party bus, mek guns, dakka jets, most the new buggies, etc. The meta rewards a high/lo style army and orks can deliver.

**mhalko1**

Okay so with the deffkilla wartrike, it allows bikes and vehicles to charge after advancing, so now we need to also grab a warboss over the other useful characters.

Unless.

You spend the CP for an extra relic, take the relic for extra warlord trait and grant a weirdboy the waagh ability. Now you can advance boyz and vehicle qithout having to invest in the warboss. I know people were going to be taking the weirdboy anyway. Is there any restriction to doing this?

Also why wouldn't you do this? Apparently the follow me ladz WT grants +1 CP so the point spent is essentially refunded.

**pismakron**

buddha wrote:
Orks seem like they have the tools to be perfect for the meta. Horde, cheap, but lots of deadly tools. Tankbusters in truks (also great for drive by grenades), bonebreaker party bus, mek guns, dakka jets, most the new buggies, etc. The meta rewards a high/lo style army and orks can deliver.

I disagree. The meta definitely strongly favours spamming lots of the same stuff combined with more of the same stuff. The reserve-stratagems is a way of getting around that.

**PiñaColada**

Overall I'm really happy with the 'dex after flipping through it. I am however disappointed that spanners are now 1 for every 5 models instead of simply up to 3.

Tankhammers have also been nerfed in that regard, now you can only have 1 for every 5 models instead of 2 for every 5. That basically makes them useless IMO since the majority of the unit doesn't want to be in CC even if you give the nob a power klaw. Shame

**BaconCatBug**

Guys, I just realised (slash was told) that if Meganobz "Loot it!" then they become effectively 2++.

Because you cannot modify below 1 thanks to the Designers Commentary, and the Dark Eldar FAQ confirmed the RaW that only unmodified 1's fail, not modified 1's (the wording is the same for both To Hit and To Save, "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply." therefore the same rules apply).

That means if you have Meganobz that are 1+ save, and are hit by an AP-5 weapon, you roll a D6-5, which due to the Designers Commentary can be modified to the following values: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 or 1, which means all rolls other than a natural 1 pass. The same applies for all other AP values (even AP0, since the natural 1 fails).

Remember, FAQs are Rules as "Intended", so if anyone argues with you they must be trying to abuse the rules! /s (Mod Disclaimer: This is a lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek joke, not an attack on anyone.)

**Zachectomy**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Guys, I just realised (slash was told) that if Meganobz "Loot it!" then they become effectively 2++.

Because you cannot modify below 1 thanks to the Designers Commentary, and the Dark Eldar FAQ confirmed the RaW that only unmodified 1's fail, not modified 1's (the wording is the same for both To Hit and To Save, "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply." therefore the same rules apply).

That means if you have Meganobz that are 1+ save, and are hit by an AP-5 weapon, you roll a D6-5, which due to the Designers Commentary can be modified to the following values: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 or 1, which means all rolls other than a natural 1 pass. The same applies for all other AP values (even AP0, since the natural 1 fails).

Remember, FAQs are Rules as "Intended", so if anyone argues with you they must be trying to abuse the rules! /s (Mod Disclaimer: This is a lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek joke, not an attack on anyone.)

Is misunderstanding rules and making nonsensical generalizations your "thing"? Because looking at your signature, that seems to be the case. Meganobz with "Loot it" hit by an ap-5 weapon go to a 6+ save. Or is this all just joking self-parody? Because, you know... Poe's Law.

**tneva82**

He is just here to cause trouble. Plus he is proven lier. Not worth wasting time reading him

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rismonite wrote:
In matched play, are we allowed to use the Tellyporta Stratagem more then once?

Yes. Its pregame so unless Specified otherwise like extra reiics you can use strategem in deployment as much as you wish cp and other restrictions(like half points max into reserves.

Good thing too. Deep strike is only thing holding orks together now

**geargutz**

Jidmah wrote:

No offense, but the whole point of starting the thread is keeping the first post up to date. People are going to be reading the first post to find out what's going on with orks, so if you start the thread, it's your job to make sure people find what they are a looking for. I didn't write the unit analysis either (I think I gave proper credit in the thread) you can just ask the people to do it for you.

Don't worry, I would happily have someone else take care the tactics thread, as long as it's properly done.

no offence taken. i didnt see credit for the unit analysis on the post with it so i thought you had done it.

ill gladly post a unit analysis up if someone else does it. if someone does it then a private message should be enough to inform me to put it out at the front (especially if the unit analysis is somehow hidden in the thread and i dont notice it).

ill try my best in that regard, but no guarantee. in a few weeks i might lose interest in dakkadakka. like i said, im not the most active. but i started this to help get a ball rolling. ill try my best to come back. if there is any good/fair unit analysis then please message me it and ill put it at the front.

**JimOnMars**

leopard wrote:
Wondering on grenades, we have the "one in ten may carry a tankbusta bomb" thing, usually only one model can lob a grenade - but the "morr stickbombs" thing allows up to ten.

guessing a mob of 30 boys that would mean three tankbusta and seven normal?

still sounds moderately dangerous but does mean marking who has them, and just a nasty suprise

That's what I'm doing. I cannibalized all of mine for kitbashed tankbustas. As soon as i heard about boyz with meltabombs, I bought out all of them from WindowBox on ebay. Should have 14 in my mailbox today.