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Quick question about the Astra Militarum stratagem Volley Fire - just to make sure: if I use this and combine it with FRFSRF I could end up with 20 shots fired from a single lasgun, if I roll all 6s on the first volley (assuming I'm in rapid fire range) , is that correct or did I miss something (errata/FAQ)?

How are you getting 20 shots from a single Lasgun?

Normal rf1
Frfsrf =rf2 (4 shots in rf range)

Voley fire 6's = fire weapon again further 6's do not generate more shots

So 4 6's =20 shots in rf range per lasgun at 1296-1 odds

I'm aware that it's unlikely, I'm more concerned with the fast rolling aspect of this if there's a limitation (e.g. only happens once per weapon) I am overlooking. Having this go off more than 9 times in a full FRFSRF isn't that unlikely and I want to be sure that this isn't an issue.

To answer your question, yes, that is how volley fire works, because it says "shoot again", not "make another attack".

Compare Volley Fire to the Storm Troopers doctrine for an example of the difference.

A MORDIAN INFANTRY model with a Flashlight under FRFSRF that rolls four 6's to hit gets to shoot again four times, for a total of sixteen bonus shots in addition to the four initial shots.

Interesting tidbit: Modian Infantry is the largest amount of dice you theoretically need to be able to roll a units attacks without re-using any dice. Assuming a matched play game with a limit of 7 battle rounds, that's 10+70 models (Infantry Squads combined via Consolidate Squad) which is 72 Lasguns and 8 Laspistols. That's 288 Lasgun Shots, plus 8 Laspistols. Each of those rolls a 6, resulting in 1152 bonus Lasgun and 8 Laspistol shots, for a total of 1456 dice required. Granted you probably have more chance of seeing a proton decay in front of your eyeballs, but it's still a chance.

Orks come a close second, with Goff Boyz, after mobbing up multiple times. Using Mob Up each turn is 30+70 for 92 boyz and 8 nobz, for 408 attacks, +100 for Warpath, +100 for Ghaz aura. 608 attacks all roll 6's causing another 608 attacks. That's 1216 dice. 'umies still got moar dakka!

Assuming 9 lasguns in a squad you would get an expectancy of 6 extra lasguns its nice but not game breaking

U02dah4 wrote:
Assuming 9 lasguns in a squad you would get an expectancy of 6 extra lasguns its nice but not game breaking

For regular infantry sure, but conscripts can have up to 30 and you can combine 2 squads 1st turn for 60...

 DeathReaper wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Assuming 9 lasguns in a squad you would get an expectancy of 6 extra lasguns its nice but not game breaking

For regular infantry sure, but conscripts can have up to 30 and you can combine 2 squads 1st turn for 60...

Or can they? It's refering to Infantry Squad with page reference. You could not combine 2 special weapon squads either.

Yeah you can’t use the Consilidate Squads Strat on anything but Infantry Squads.

Weird, it references Infantry squad (not INFANTRY SQUAD).

But then goes on to reference P. 93.

Screw GW and their messy rules lol!

tneva82 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Assuming 9 lasguns in a squad you would get an expectancy of 6 extra lasguns its nice but not game breaking

For regular infantry sure, but conscripts can have up to 30 and you can combine 2 squads 1st turn for 60...

Or can they? It's refering to Infantry Squad with page reference. You could not combine 2 special weapon squads either.

That was assuming 1 10 man infantry squad double it for consolidated squads (note your squad will die to moral). Although if you want to be silly you can consolidate an extra squad each turn to get to a rediculous unit on turn 6 however you will die long before in reality

U02dah4 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Assuming 9 lasguns in a squad you would get an expectancy of 6 extra lasguns its nice but not game breaking

For regular infantry sure, but conscripts can have up to 30 and you can combine 2 squads 1st turn for 60...

Or can they? It's refering to Infantry Squad with page reference. You could not combine 2 special weapon squads either.

That was assuming 1 10 man infantry squad double it for consolidated squads (note your squad will die to moral). Although if you want to be silly you can consolidate an extra squad each turn to get to a rediculous unit on turn 6 however you will die long before in reality

I was refering to idea of combining 2 units of 30 conscripts into one unit of 60.

U02dah4 wrote:
note your squad will die to moral

They will be plenty brave if there is a commissar nearby to inspire them.

 Bilge Rat wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
note your squad will die to moral

They will be plenty brave if there is a commissar nearby to inspire them.

I assume you have read faq that nerfed commisars? For conscripts it's bit better boost but even then with 30 squad doesn't help much rerolling that d6 when 20 is getting blown apart! And for infantry squad commisar isn't going to be that big help. Basically just the reroll(at least it's not mandatory anymore)

 DeathReaper wrote:
Weird, it references Infantry squad (not INFANTRY SQUAD).

But then goes on to reference P. 93.

Screw GW and their messy rules lol!

Not really messy. There's a few stratagems which affect specific units instead of those with certain keywords (e.g. Killshot and Fire Frenzy) and Infantry Squad and Conscripts just happen to be on the same page in the codex.

tneva82 wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Assuming 9 lasguns in a squad you would get an expectancy of 6 extra lasguns its nice but not game breaking

For regular infantry sure, but conscripts can have up to 30 and you can combine 2 squads 1st turn for 60...

Or can they? It's refering to Infantry Squad with page reference. You could not combine 2 special weapon squads either.

That was assuming 1 10 man infantry squad double it for consolidated squads (note your squad will die to moral). Although if you want to be silly you can consolidate an extra squad each turn to get to a rediculous unit on turn 6 however you will die long before in reality

I was refering to idea of combining 2 units of 30 conscripts into one unit of 60.

You can't do that you may only consolidate infantry squads

Conscripts are infantry but not infantry squads which is a specific datasheet

U02dah4 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Assuming 9 lasguns in a squad you would get an expectancy of 6 extra lasguns its nice but not game breaking

For regular infantry sure, but conscripts can have up to 30 and you can combine 2 squads 1st turn for 60...

Or can they? It's refering to Infantry Squad with page reference. You could not combine 2 special weapon squads either.

That was assuming 1 10 man infantry squad double it for consolidated squads (note your squad will die to moral). Although if you want to be silly you can consolidate an extra squad each turn to get to a rediculous unit on turn 6 however you will die long before in reality

It wont die to morale if you have the correct relic :-)

Set up correctly you could have a 40 man squad (Less a few casualties) by turn 3.

Pietrov's MK 45 FTW!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Weird, it references Infantry squad (not INFANTRY SQUAD).

But then goes on to reference P. 93.

Screw GW and their messy rules lol!

Not really messy. There's a few stratagems which affect specific units instead of those with certain keywords (e.g. Killshot and Fire Frenzy) and Infantry Squad and Conscripts just happen to be on the same page in the codex.

It is messy.

Conscripts are INFANTRY

Squad and unit are interchangeable.

Therefore messy.

It could be more clear than it is.

Again, INFANTRY and Infantry are separate terms in 40K. It's not messy if you don't try and make the words interchangable when they're not.

 Ghaz wrote:
Again, INFANTRY and Infantry are separate terms in 40K. It's not messy if you don't try and make the words interchangable when they're not.

Agreed. It's only messy if you ignore context.

The "Aerial Spotter" errata alone is proof enough that KEYWORD is not the same as Keyword. If they were, there would have been no need for the errata. Then there is the Deathwatch Intercessor errata to prove that "Name X" is not the same as "Name".

 BaconCatBug wrote:
To answer your question, yes, that is how volley fire works, because it says "shoot again", not "make another attack".

Compare Volley Fire to the Storm Troopers doctrine for an example of the difference.

A MORDIAN INFANTRY model with a Flashlight under FRFSRF that rolls four 6's to hit gets to shoot again four times, for a total of sixteen bonus shots in addition to the four initial shots.

Thanks - that's all I wanted to hear, so I'm not missing some errata or whatever.

--

How are people having an issue with differentiating "Infantry Squad" and "Infantry unit" and blaming GW for it, though? Keywords are printed in bold and not interchangable with even literally the same word (eg Predator vs "Predator" - a "Deimos Pattern Predator" is a unit with the Predator keyword, but not a "Predator"). It's a pretty good solution, in my opinion.

U02dah4 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Assuming 9 lasguns in a squad you would get an expectancy of 6 extra lasguns its nice but not game breaking

For regular infantry sure, but conscripts can have up to 30 and you can combine 2 squads 1st turn for 60...

Or can they? It's refering to Infantry Squad with page reference. You could not combine 2 special weapon squads either.

That was assuming 1 10 man infantry squad double it for consolidated squads (note your squad will die to moral). Although if you want to be silly you can consolidate an extra squad each turn to get to a rediculous unit on turn 6 however you will die long before in reality

I was refering to idea of combining 2 units of 30 conscripts into one unit of 60.

You can't do that you may only consolidate infantry squads

Conscripts are infantry but not infantry squads which is a specific datasheet

Ummm...That was pretty much what I said in the first post I made that you replied at?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Again, INFANTRY and Infantry are separate terms in 40K. It's not messy if you don't try and make the words interchangable when they're not.

Agreed. It's only messy if you ignore context.

The "Aerial Spotter" errata alone is proof enough that KEYWORD is not the same as Keyword. If they were, there would have been no need for the errata. Then there is the Deathwatch Intercessor errata to prove that "Name X" is not the same as "Name".

I am not ignoring the context.

It says Infantry. Conscripts are infantry, as they have the INFANTRY keyword.

But they’re not an “Infantry Squad”, so cant use the Stratagem. The bold capitals for Keywords/not caps for Unit name distinction is pretty clear.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
But they’re not an “Infantry Squad”, so cant use the Stratagem. The bold capitals for Keywords/not caps for Unit name distinction is pretty clear.

They are a unit of infantry, Unit* is interchangeable with squad... So messy.

Probably not able to use the strat on conscripts. but it could be more clear.


(* = correction, I meant to say Unit not infantry).

 DeathReaper wrote:
I am not ignoring the context.

It says Infantry. Conscripts are infantry, as they have the INFANTRY keyword.

Infantry is not the same as INFANTRY in the context of Warhammer 40,000 8th edition. This has been explained to you multiple times now.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
I am not ignoring the context.

It says Infantry. Conscripts are infantry, as they have the INFANTRY keyword.

Infantry is not the same as INFANTRY in the context of Warhammer 40,000 8th edition. This has been explained to you multiple times now.

Condescending much?

I know that Infantry and INFANTRY can mean different things...

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
I am not ignoring the context.

It says Infantry. Conscripts are infantry, as they have the INFANTRY keyword.

Infantry is not the same as INFANTRY in the context of Warhammer 40,000 8th edition. This has been explained to you multiple times now.

Condescending much?

I know that Infantry and INFANTRY can mean different things...

Then why are you trying to claim otherwise by saying Conscript squads can use the stratagem?

 DeathReaper wrote:

I am not ignoring the context.

It says Infantry. Conscripts are infantry, as they have the INFANTRY keyword.

You're literally saying Conscripts are the same as Infantry Squads.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
But they’re not an “Infantry Squad”, so cant use the Stratagem. The bold capitals for Keywords/not caps for Unit name distinction is pretty clear.

They are a unit of infantry, infantry is interchangeable with squad... So messy.

Probably not able to use the strat on conscripts. but it could be more clear.

No. 'Infantry Squad' is a proper name as noted by the capitalization and the page reference to the unit with that name. A stratagem which applies to 'Infantry Squad' only applies to the unit with the name 'Infantry Squad'. You're still trying to conflate the term 'Infantry Squad' as something other than what is written. It is not an 'infantry squad', 'infantry unit' or a 'unit of infantry'..

Yes as above infantry unit = a unit with the infantry keyword
This could be a company commander, yarick, conscripts, a heavy weapon squad or an infantry squad


Infantry squad = a specific datasheet. the infantry squad. thats it.

They are not in any way interchangable terms.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
I am not ignoring the context.

It says Infantry. Conscripts are infantry, as they have the INFANTRY keyword.

Infantry is not the same as INFANTRY in the context of Warhammer 40,000 8th edition. This has been explained to you multiple times now.

Condescending much?

I know that Infantry and INFANTRY can mean different things...

It's been explained in detail multiple times, and yet you're still not grasping that there's Infantry, the keyword, as used in the phrase "any Infantry unit", and there's Infantry Squad, as used in the phrase "There is a datasheet called Infantry Squad". Again - in THIS case it's even used with a specific difference (Squad vs unit), so it's even clearer than in other cases. There's a Predator keyword and a unit called Predator that has the Predator keyword, but both terms refer to different things. There are units with the Predator keyword that aren't "Predator", but e.g. "Deimos Pattern Predators". Keyword vs Name. As indicated by the font style.