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Or, more specifically, in matched play can I summon a Daemon unit on the first turn?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Or, more specifically, in matched play can I summon a Daemon unit on the first turn?

You can because Daemons are not set up somewhere other than the Battlefield. You instead set them up directly onto the battlefield using Reinforcement Points. The new Tactical Reserves beta rule doesn't prevent summoning on Turn 1.

Big FAQ 2 wrote:Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.

What about this quote from the Daemonic Ritual rule:
"This unit is treated as reinforcements for your army."

Edit: I suppose since there's no unit in your army that you placed in reserves it still doesn't apply.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
What about this quote from the Daemonic Ritual rule:
"This unit is treated as reinforcements for your army."

Edit: I suppose since there's no unit in your army that you placed in reserves it still doesn't apply.

Being reinforcements isn't what matters here. Any unit that gets "set up" during a phase counts as reinforcements regardless of where they originated. What matters is if the unit was "set up" somewhere other than the "battlefield". The beta Tactical Reserves rule doesn't prevent reinforcements in Battle Round 1 (that was the problem with the old beta rule, it blocked Teleports and Summoning) it prevents units that were set up outside the battlefield from arriving to the battlefield. Summoned Daemons are never set up outside of the battlefield, and thus are not affected by the beta Tactical Reserves rule.

But the FAQ you quoted above doesn't use the phrase "set up" so I'm not sure that logic applies.

It says "placed," and the Ritual also uses "place."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the answer is that there is no unit ANYWHERE until the end of my movement phase, at which point it simply appears. This circumnavigates the conundrum.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
But the FAQ you quoted above doesn't use the phrase "set up" so I'm not sure that logic applies.

It says "placed," and the Ritual also uses "place."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the answer is that there is no unit ANYWHERE until the end of my movement phase, at which point it simply appears. This circumnavigates the conundrum.

It doesn't just say placed, it says "not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as reinforcements". Daemons are not placed anywhere during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as reinforcements, they simply don't exist until you summon them.

The unit isn't setup anywhere so it can be summoned the first turn, but would have to be in your deployment zone as it did not start on the table.

I would also say you can ignore the rule of three for summoning as the summoned unit was not included in your army during army creation.

blaktoof wrote:
The unit isn't setup anywhere so it can be summoned the first turn, but would have to be in your deployment zone as it did not start on the table.

I would also say you can ignore the rule of three for summoning as the summoned unit was not included in your army during army creation.

This is my understanding as well.

blaktoof wrote:
The unit isn't setup anywhere so it can be summoned the first turn, but would have to be in your deployment zone as it did not start on the table.

Where do you get this? I recall the old beta rule specificed that on T1, reinforcements had to arrive in your own deployment zone...but I don't see that in FAQ2.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
The unit isn't setup anywhere so it can be summoned the first turn, but would have to be in your deployment zone as it did not start on the table.

Where do you get this? I recall the old beta rule specificed that on T1, reinforcements had to arrive in your own deployment zone...but I don't see that in FAQ2.

blaktoof is indeed referring to the first version of the beta rule. The newest beta rule doesn't have any restrictions or mention of deployment zones.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
The unit isn't setup anywhere so it can be summoned the first turn, but would have to be in your deployment zone as it did not start on the table.

Where do you get this? I recall the old beta rule specificed that on T1, reinforcements had to arrive in your own deployment zone...but I don't see that in FAQ2.

blaktoof is indeed referring to the first version of the beta rule. The newest beta rule doesn't have any restrictions or mention of deployment zones.

Yeah I am combining both in my memory...mistake there.