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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Say I have stormcasters and I have them paired with collegate arcane. I have a few questions about it all.
Can I have a a stormcaster battlion formation with just it being an order aligned army?
If my general is a stormcaster can I have the army be aligned with stormcasters to unlock their army abilities, command traits, a d special artifacts. And if I can do I have to put the collegiate arcane members as allies?
If you army is order do you add the faction abilities? Example order army has the bravery test buff. Does that stack with stormcasters deepstrike I'd you take stormcaster alliance?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




1) Yeah, you can include battalions in Grand Alliance armies, as long as everything in it has the right keyword.

2) If you want to use the Stormcast Eternals allegiance abilities, you need to pick that allegiance and anything that doesn't have it would need to be an ally, yes. Every faction has a list of allies it can use - Stormcast can ally with any other Order faction, luckily.

3) If you pick the Order allegiance, you can only use the abilities for Order. You don't get anything Stormcast-related.
   
Made in be
Dakka Veteran






furthermore it is somewhere in the designer commentary I believe, that you cannot take a grand alliance allegiance if another more specific allegiance is possible. ex. if your army would be possible to play as stormcast eternal, you cannot take order.
   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






 minisnatcher wrote:
furthermore it is somewhere in the designer commentary I believe, that you cannot take a grand alliance allegiance if another more specific allegiance is possible. ex. if your army would be possible to play as stormcast eternal, you cannot take order.

No, that's wrong.



 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






 Hanskrampf wrote:
 minisnatcher wrote:
furthermore it is somewhere in the designer commentary I believe, that you cannot take a grand alliance allegiance if another more specific allegiance is possible. ex. if your army would be possible to play as stormcast eternal, you cannot take order.

No, that's wrong.


Yeah, I believe the guidance was simply that you have to choose from an available allegiance (so if you qualify for two you cannot claim two, you must pick one or the other). But you certainly can field an all-Stormcast army as "Order" if you wanted to...for some reason.

Currently focusing on Traitor Guard  
   
Made in be
Dakka Veteran






 exliontamer wrote:
 Hanskrampf wrote:
 minisnatcher wrote:
furthermore it is somewhere in the designer commentary I believe, that you cannot take a grand alliance allegiance if another more specific allegiance is possible. ex. if your army would be possible to play as stormcast eternal, you cannot take order.

No, that's wrong.


Yeah, I believe the guidance was simply that you have to choose from an available allegiance (so if you qualify for two you cannot claim two, you must pick one or the other). But you certainly can field an all-Stormcast army as "Order" if you wanted to...for some reason.


I can believe I read the rule wrong, but am looking for the specific rule and cannot find it back. But I am 100% sure that there was something somewhere about it. Anyone that knows where the specific rules can be found? I am the kind of person that needs to see it to believe it
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I've just had a look through the AoS FAQs, and you might be remembering this from the General's Handbook Errata:

General's Handbook Erata wrote:Page 62
– Pitched Battle Profile, Introduction
Add the following section:
‘ARMIES WITHOUT ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES
If a faction army does not have a set of allegiance
abilities, then you can use its Grand Alliance allegiance
abilities instead. For example, if you had an Eshin army
you could use the Grand Alliance Chaos allegiance
abilities, and if you had an Order Draconis army you
could use the Grand Alliance Order allegiance abilities.
Note that if allegiance abilities exist for a faction army,
you must use them.’


Source

This is actually kind of ambiguous, since the last sentence seems to be telling you that you must use a faction's Allegiance Abilities rather than the Grand Alliance ones if you have the option, but I think it's actually just telling you that you can't opt to have no allegiance.

It's not massively important, of course, because the Grand Alliance abilities are quantitatively weaker than the faction ones, so there's no reason you'd ever use them unless you had to.
   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






Thommy H wrote:
I've just had a look through the AoS FAQs, and you might be remembering this from the General's Handbook Errata:

General's Handbook Erata wrote:Page 62
– Pitched Battle Profile, Introduction
Add the following section:
‘ARMIES WITHOUT ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES
If a faction army does not have a set of allegiance
abilities, then you can use its Grand Alliance allegiance
abilities instead. For example, if you had an Eshin army
you could use the Grand Alliance Chaos allegiance
abilities, and if you had an Order Draconis army you
could use the Grand Alliance Order allegiance abilities.
Note that if allegiance abilities exist for a faction army,
you must use them.’


Source
This is actually kind of ambiguous, since the last sentence seems to be telling you that you must use a faction's Allegiance Abilities rather than the Grand Alliance ones if you have the option, but I think it's actually just telling you that you can't opt to have no allegiance.

It's not massively important, of course, because the Grand Alliance abilities are quantitatively weaker than the faction ones, so there's no reason you'd ever use them unless you had to.


This is a really strange quote, and on page 62 in the GHB it doesn't even make sense.
The Core Book talks about allegiance and factions and already covers everything. The GHB no longer contains rules for factions and allegiances, only the allegiance abilities themself.

Core Books p242
ARMY ALLEGIANCE
When you choose your army, you
can also choose an allegiance for
it. If you do so, you can use the
allegiance abilities that correspond
to the allegiance you have chosen.
If an army can have more than one
allegiance, you must pick one to
apply to it during the game.


and

FACTIONS
Many units also owe allegiance to
a faction that is part of one of the
Grand Alliances. For example,
Stormcast Eternals are a faction of
the Order Grand Alliance.
An army can have allegiance to a
faction instead of a Grand Alliance
if all the units in the army have the
keyword for that faction, including
any units that you assign a keyword
to during set-up.





 
   
Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission






The distinction is that the GHB prescribes the matched play rules, which is what you're referencing here.

Also, on page 48 of the GHB you're told you must pick an allegiance and your army must all be under that allegiance or allies thereto. (Basically a retread of 310 of the core rules).

These are all referring to page 242 where it describes how allegiance rules work, there it's made clear your allegiance can be your faction or your grand alliance, whichever you prefer.

The reason they say they're mandatory in that FAQ and elsewhere in the matched play section is important because they're not mandatory in their original form on page 242.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






 Captain Joystick wrote:
The distinction is that the GHB prescribes the matched play rules, which is what you're referencing here.

Also, on page 48 of the GHB you're told you must pick an allegiance and your army must all be under that allegiance or allies thereto. (Basically a retread of 310 of the core rules).

These are all referring to page 242 where it describes how allegiance rules work, there it's made clear your allegiance can be your faction or your grand alliance, whichever you prefer.

The reason they say they're mandatory in that FAQ and elsewhere in the matched play section is important because they're not mandatory in their original form on page 242.


Yep, this is how I read it. The operative word being "can" in the above passage.

Currently focusing on Traitor Guard  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




This is a really strange quote, and on page 62 in the GHB it doesn't even make sense.


Hey, it's straight from the Errata document *shrug*.
   
Made in be
Dakka Veteran






Now I am confused.
Is specific faction allegiance mandatory in matched play then, but not otherwhise?
   
Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission






An allegiance is required in matched play.

If your army fits a grand alliance and not a specific faction (like stormcast eternal) you take the grand alliance. If your army could be a specific faction you can pick that faction or grand alliance.

If your army has orrucks and daughters of khaine and skeletons, you're not playing matched play.

   
Made in be
Dakka Veteran






Then why the must in this sentence?

Note that if allegiance abilities exist for a faction army,
you must use them.’


It does not make much sense there...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 16:35:43


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






 minisnatcher wrote:
Then why the must in this sentence?

Note that if allegiance abilities exist for a faction army,
you must use them.’


It does not make much sense there...


Well since you cut out a lot of the context it does appear to make little sense, but when we return the context:

‘ARMIES WITHOUT ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES
If a faction army does not have a set of allegiance
abilities, then you can use its Grand Alliance allegiance
abilities instead. For example, if you had an Eshin army
you could use the Grand Alliance Chaos allegiance
abilities, and if you had an Order Draconis army you
could use the Grand Alliance Order allegiance abilities.
Note that if allegiance abilities exist for a faction army,
you must use them.’


...it makes perfect sense. They give two examples of "faction armies" without abilities, Eshin and Order Draconis. Because they don't have any faction-specific abilities, if you are taking an Eshin FACTION army you don't just get the shaft, you get access to the Grand Alliance Chaos abilities even though you are not technically fielding a Grand Alliance Chaos army. Why this would ever matter is beyond me, as it is purely semantics at this point. Who would choose no abilities over some abilities? Dunno... However, if you were to field a Stormcast Eternals FACTION army you must use their specific faction abilities, you cannot opt to use the Grand Alliance Order ones. Again, I can't think of a reason why you would want to. But don't try it, you can't. Of course if you really want those Order abilities you could take an Order army and only have Stormcast faction units in it. But again...why? Maybe they are trying to avoid a situation where someone would rules lawyer their way into having both their Faction abilities and their Grand Alliance abilities at the same time...but I think that is addressed elsewhere anyway.

Capitalization is me emphasizing where GW should have templated the term "FACTION" to mean something very specific and not made it a lowercase word. It is just classic GW shooting themselves in the foot with bad templating, bad keywording, and a complete lack of proofreading of any kind.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/14 20:22:40


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