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I feel like it's worth asking if GW ever told the community why TKs got removed. I see so much speculation and confusion on the matter, and honestly I'd like to know if the company ever chimed in on why they ended one of their best looking lines.

According to Rob of prior Warhammer Tv Fame, they were to be included and the files never got sent to the place printing the books.

Far as I recall they got forgotten about and then just sort of dumped.

Personally I think that the management plan for AoS at that stage was very different. I think the plan was to steadily drop models and introduce new ones. Fracturing the major factions into tiny ones making it easier to remove some smaller bits without backlash every single time they did it. Then just keep cycling in new models.
Remember at launch the rules were a literal joke and the general attitude was "people will just buy cool models because they are cool".


So I think TK were just the army that got the short straw and got dropped. You don't just drop a product and have it all shipped back to central (waste material) just because something didn't make it to the printers. You release a Battletome Special in White Dwarf or you release it as a mini-book stand alone or heck even a PDF. Dumping the whole range and cutting them fully out of production I think was a deliberate choice. Now might be that they weren't supposed to be first; or to be dropped at that point or that they only intended to drop "Some" of them at that stage; but whatever I don't think it was an accident they tried to cover up.



Lets be honest AoS launch was a selection of bad ideas. Even staunch AoS fan's can't deny that its early days were dark times for fantasy in GW.
Personally I still hold out hope that they bring them back; or at least restore some of the models to the line, because they had some very up to date sculpts in some of their models. Plus things like skeletons riding stone snake constructs is VERY AoS epic fantasy

Old AoS was so bad that us playing 40k were scared that GW was trying to actively kill itself.

Bringing the 8th edition kits as the core of a Kataphranes book ala Daughters of Khaine would be fantastic.

GW never actively told the community anything. All we have is hearsay and rumors and player conjecture.

The Tomb Kings still exist within the setting. There's a reference or two to them on at least one of the maps that have been published. So there's already an opening for them to reappear. And there are definitely some slots for them. Giant inorganic constructs, screaming skull catapults, ushabti, and more, all would fit right in with the sort of stuff that AoS has been giving us. And I'd love to see them back. I have my old Tomb Kings army. But I wouldn't touch the new undead stuff with a ten-foot pole, as I've never been a fan of the VC look (which is what the newer undead stuff is largely influenced by).

Having said all of that, while I suspect we'll eventually see the Tomb Kings make an appearance, I also suspect that it's a very long ways off. There's still a lot of stuff that hasn't been carried forward and updated, and Tomb Kings will only be revisited after that stuff gets dealt with.

Or, alternately, we might see new Tomb Kings stuff if Hollywood actually manages to release another popular Mummy movie.

Haven't Bretonnia more or less been axed too? Was looking for any of their minis on the GW site a few weeks ago and none to be found. Are they still in the fluff?

Schmapdi wrote:
Haven't Bretonnia more or less been axed too? Was looking for any of their minis on the GW site a few weeks ago and none to be found. Are they still in the fluff?

The Bretonnian line got dropped about a month after the Tomb Kings did.

Fluff-wise, the Tomb Kings still exist because they're an unchanging dynastic empire that's been around longer than Sigmar. They're locked in a stasis of sorts. They arrived in the new lands, and promptly set up unchanging kingdoms exactly like their old ones (albeit with some sort of uneasy truce with Nagash this time around).

The Bretonnians, on the other hand, are made up of living humans. Humans change from generation to generation. The Bretonnians would fall under the classifications of "Free Peoples", which technically also includes the old Empire models. So there are still likely humans around who dress and equip themselves like the Bretonnians. But with the dominance of Sigmar, and the absence of the Lady of the Lake, the culture that made up that nation is almost certainly largely gone.

From one of the Realmgate War books...

GW has a mean streak about holding on to what they see as their IP. They couldn't copyright "Undead Egyptians" so they dropped the faction.

Same with Brettonia. They can't copyright basically anything about their old Brettonian miniatures.

So they've shelved the factions till they can come up with something to change them enough to where they can hold a copyright.

I suspect that we might see a return of about half the Tomb Kings miniature range one day as part of a new Death faction, but the fluff will be drastically different and the other half of the faction will probably not be what people are hoping for. Things like Sepulchral Stalkers, Necropolis Knights, Warsphinx, Necrosphinx, and maybe Ushabti are fairly new molds and are visually distinct enough that GW could probably copyright/trademark them as something defensible. The rest of the faction is too generic though.

 Grey Templar wrote:
GW has a mean streak about holding on to what they see as their IP. They couldn't copyright "Undead Egyptians" so they dropped the faction.

Same with Brettonia. They can't copyright basically anything about their old Brettonian miniatures.

So they've shelved the factions till they can come up with something to change them enough to where they can hold a copyright.

and this is allso must likely why the fantasy armys dont get updates or new additions.
elves, dwarfs and humans cannot be CR by GW cuz they look identical to other fantasy elfs, dwarfs and humans.

but steampunk/naked dwarfs or elfs riding on fishes can be CR by GW.
the human faction wont return before GW can make them look completely different from other fantasy lines and the same with TK.

Grey Templar wrote:GW has a mean streak about holding on to what they see as their IP. They couldn't copyright "Undead Egyptians" so they dropped the faction.

Same with Brettonia. They can't copyright basically anything about their old Brettonian miniatures.

So they've shelved the factions till they can come up with something to change them enough to where they can hold a copyright.

This argument just doesn't hold water. Of the armies that were ported over from WHFB, Tomb Kings were easily the most unique and identifiable as a GW creation except for possibly the Skaven and Lizardmen. If copyright was the reason for the Tomb Kings being axed, then Beastmen (Greek mythology), Vampire Counts (Gothic undead), Empire (basically just the HRE with steampunk elements), Wood Elves, High Elves, and Dark Elves (all three just the standard flavors of elves) would have gone away at the same time. They are all more generic fantasy than the Tomb Kings were.

FrozenDwarf wrote:
and this is allso must likely why the fantasy armys dont get updates or new additions.

And yet four releases in the last year (Legions of Nagash, Daughters of Khaine, Nighthaunts and Beasts of Chaos) were factions ported over in whole or in part from Fantasy.

 Ghaz wrote:
From one of the Realmgate War books...

This is just a lip service. Brets & TK got the axe because GW can´t slap their IP badge on them. Get real people, these two factions will never come back.

I don't think Bretonnians come back simply because from a business standpoint there is no way to copyright it. King Arthurian legend plus generic knights and peasant models mean I can go to the Perry miniature collection and get my army for 1/4 of what I pay GW.

Tomb Kings on the other hand I believe will return in some fashion. Just not called Tomb Kings. Something something ancient dead.

The sphinx model and other of the large monster models were fairly newer and I easily see them returning in the future with a new death faction that is bent around the ancient kings of old that strike out against Nagash and are their own thing.

 EnTyme wrote:


This argument just doesn't hold water.

It does if you have even a passing familiarity with IP law.

Daughters of Khaine has medusa warriors, they are even female. Meanwhile steampunk dwarves with airships is not really that copyrightable is it now.

The only thing GW have clamped down on was names - eg Aelf. Otherwise the visual designs are still pretty standard. Heck Nighthunt is full of tablecloth wearing ghosts with chains (Scrooge and the Marley Brothers).

I don't think it was visual designs that saw the end of TK under copyright protection. If that were the case GW would have to do sweeping changes to almost everything. Granted GW of those days was a bit more nuts, so heck it could have been. But I don't see it as any barrier right now.

Bretonians could return, or at least a human faction with a heavy cavalry focus could return. Just as Tomb Kings could return to the Realms without any issues.

Well an EX-GW staff is answering questions on the reddit, he had this to say on Tomb kings.

"Right. This was one I dealt with on a weekly basis, so I'll give you the answer I always gave. Though it is probably more honest than usual.

So as mentioned elsewhere in this post, if units are discussed in the lore, there is a chance that they might be made into models. And several AoS novels make reference to Tomb King units. So in that regard, yes there is a chance.

However, (this bit requires a bit of knowledge of stock systems), the reason tomb kings were taken off the shelves is that they were sitting in the warehouse for so long, the were actually costing the company money. This is to do with the way inventories are taken at the end of the year, I don't know the exact details. Either way, demand for them was so low, they were removed from the inventory altogether. So unless the high-ups decide that there is enough demand for them, they probably won't come back.

Take that with a pinch of salt, but it is what me and my manager used to tell people when they asked in the store."

I my opinion I think it's also a case of TK just not selling, since in my store it was the same thing. No one touched em, what the manager says here matches up with what my one says.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:


This argument just doesn't hold water.

It does if you have even a passing familiarity with IP law.

Please explain to me how any of the other armies I mentioned are easier IPs to protect than the Tomb Kings were. I think shinros' source has it right. Tomb Kings were cancelled because they weren't selling.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:


This argument just doesn't hold water.

It does if you have even a passing familiarity with IP law.

Please explain to me how any of the other armies I mentioned are easier IPs to protect than the Tomb Kings were. I think shinros' source has it right. Tomb Kings were cancelled because they weren't selling.

But things like beastmen were?

The solution is simple - next time GW do a big survey everyone has to shift from asking for Sisters to asking for Tomb Kings. I'm very sure that one aspect of them not selling was the state of 8th edition in general, but also likely that their rules were lagging and weak and thus they were not garnering attention.

Same pattern we've seen multiple times with armies from GW and a pattern that they've shafted hard with the new way they've updated 40K (and are steadily updating AoS).

The thing that kept me from doing Tomb Kings back in WHFB was the core plastics (i.e. Skeleton Warriors, Cavalry and Chariots). I loved the concept, but those models just killed any desire I had for the army. Bringing back Tomb Kings would be a big expenditure on GW's part replacing those kits along with all those which were still in metal or resin.

Few people touched the tomb kings because they were a low tier army and power gaming combos were not found within them to help people claim internet fame and glory through grand tournament wins.

Its not a shocker that a great chunk of players buy whats powerful and leave the stinkers on the shelves. Thats a testament to GW's poor rules writing and balancing of armies which has been a thing since late 6th edition whfb and the Mat Ward "demons are supposed to be busted because demons" era.

I'm positive that people want tomb kings to come back.

However if they released a stinker army book today that can't win tournaments, like the overlords and other weaksauce armies today have the same issues with, that the tomb kings revival would be "dead on arrival" lol.

However they make great Kingdom of Dust models for kings of war which is what I use my tomb kings collection for.

Dude, you really need to get off this "everyone buys things only for power gaming" bent you have. Tomb Kings just weren't that interesting an army. They even had a big push with a hardback army book and big, modern plastic kits and nobody bought them. They just didn't have the visual appeal and overlapped with the Vampire Counts which were always more appealing.

How can people not be interested in an army of skeletons marching to war over the sands supported by huge walking sphinx, riding huge snake-machines and such? Necrons are almost the same style of army and sell very well for themselves (Esp considering that for the longest time Necrons had about 4 or so models to their name).

I think power-play was certainly more evident near the end of 8th edition as you only had the more die-hard fans at that stage keeping the game going.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
They even had a big push with a hardback army book and big, modern plastic kits...

... but the core plastics of the army were old, crappy models that looked even worse when mixed with those big, modern plastic kits. They were an interesting army, but it's the plastic models that made up the core of the army that killed it for me and probably others as well.

Also they suffered the way Skaven did - requiring a LOT of those core units to be made before you could start playing with the interesting stuff. TK on TW Warhammer appears to be doing very well for itself as a faction and DLC

....because all of the armies over represented are always the top tier armies. Since 20 years ago on until today.

You may not like it, but that seems to be how it is.

If the models were representative of a piece of feces with googly eyes but were OP as hell, you'd see them regularly.

Tomb Kings were one of the weakest armies in 8th edition. To try and say that had nothing to do with why they were not selling is to be putting your head into the sand.

Vampire counts used a lot of the same models and you saw skeleton armies regularly over there.

Because vampire counts had vastly stronger rules.

When Tomb Kings were first made into their own army in 6th edition there was a large following for them, because they were at least mid tier in 6th edition. When they got t heir 8th army book, pretty much every tomb king player on the internet, big tournaments, and locally changed armies and were waiting for them to get a book that wasn't a paper tiger. Then AOS happened. Tomb Kings were one of if not the worst army in 8th edition from a power gamer perspective, and their sales reflected that. And some of those newer kits like the sphinx were pretty cool. The skeleton kit is pretty old, but the vampire counts players were fielding them in large numbers regardless of them being an old kit as well so I don't buy the "they had old skeletons thats why they didn't sell" idea because TK and VC skeletons were from the same kit forever until a few years ago.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Dude, you really need to get off this "everyone buys things only for power gaming" bent you have. Tomb Kings just weren't that interesting an army. They even had a big push with a hardback army book and big, modern plastic kits and nobody bought them. They just didn't have the visual appeal and overlapped with the Vampire Counts which were always more appealing.

Tomb Kings were great. From the big bow wielding statues to the sad irony of them all.